Can I own a Leaf without a garage?

[Nubo]

One thing to consider is the 2016 leaf may provide a bit more latitude. If we assume it will have, say 105 EPA miles of range, you could tolerate a small shortfall in charging each day and then make it up on the weekend. But with a 65 mile commute and L1 charging you'd need to be careful in your planning to see if it would work.

Frankly though, I see a number of problems in trying to use a 120V outlet from an open carport in an apartment complex. There's the possibility of vandalism ranging from un-plugging pranks up to theft of the EVSE. Also a safey concern from tripping hazards or curious children investigating the plug.

And I'd expect a rational apartment manager to be have concerns that other tenants will request similar treatment, while the branch circuits to the carports likely were not designed to have multiple continuous 12A loads. That means unequal amenities for their tenants, which is a problem they will strenuously avoid.

In an apartment setting at the present time, impromptu solutions will probably be rare, sorry to say. As time goes on, more locations will begin offering EV charging solutions as an amentiy; meaning their electrical system and policies will have been properly planned to handle the task safely, and in an equitable manner that doesn't get them sued.

 

[fooljoe]

I think a better question for OP is whether the (24 kWh) Leaf is right for a 65 mile commute, even if the charging situation can be resolved. A brand new Leaf can handle it fine, but as the battery degrades your margin becomes razor thin - if you want to drive somewhere for lunch or make any other side trips you might be stuck. With that long of a commute I don't think I'd recommend the Leaf without reliable workplace charging, regardless of the home charging situation.

As far as that home charging situation, yeah the air conditioner outlet might work (just know you can't run the A/C at the same time you charge), but do you really want such a jury-rigged (and probably dangerous/illegal) solution for your everyday charging? Just call out an electrician and get a quote for what it would take to run a dedicated 240V circuit to your carport, and see if you can get the landlord's approval (in many areas they have to allow this.) Just consider whatever expense that would be as added to the cost of whatever EV you're considering, then make an informed decision.

 

[blinder]

This is a great community, so much information and so much help!!!

As I gather more information from you guys, I found out more about my apartment's electrical situation. I took a look a the circuit box and found out the 220v AC is connect to the 15 Amp breaker.

My car port is right next to my bedroom, and lets assume theft is not a concern. And I am smart enough to know not to run AC and charging at the same time. I also will charge a night when I have very little appliances running. Also assume the landlord is Ok with me running an extension cord from my AC socket to my car port. Can you give me a simple answer whether this set up will work? and it will charge faster than L1? And how long would it take to fully charge?

My back up plan; I've talked to my boss today and he has no problem letting me charge at work using the 110v. Say I do not use 220v or 240v and only use L1 at night after work and L1 at work for 8 hours, will it be enough for my daily commute of 65 miles?

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[smkettner]

L1 at work AND home would work as long as no one changes their mind.

You could move closer to your employment.

I would definitely ask the LL about installing L2 or using the L1 or the A/C circuit.

I could probably set you up in a 2Bd2Ba in Costa Mesa with L2.

 

[kubel]

My back up plan; I've talked to my boss today and he has no problem letting me charge at work using the 110v. Say I do not use 220v or 240v and only use L1 at night after work and L1 at work for 8 hours, will it be enough for my daily commute of 65 miles?

It takes about 21kWh to fill up from empty on a new 24kWh pack. On 120V and 12A and with ~75% efficiency at L1, you can charge your battery at about 1.08kW. So 21/1.08 = 19.4 hours total required charge time (assuming a dead pack, which rarely happens in my experience).

If you use all 21kWh every day and can charge for 8 hours at work, then you will need to charge for an additional 11.4 hours at home the night before to be able to have a full battery every morning.

If you live in a region that experiences very cold winters, be aware that 1) battery capacity shrinks considerably in the cold, 2) the ability of the battery to charge at higher amperage decreases, and 3) the car will use more energy not just moving itself, but also heating the cabin. This combined impact can be quite severe, and you probably will notice that there aren't enough hours in the day to both fully charge the car to keep up with your energy use associated with a 65-mile commute.

So for people that live in cold winter regions, I strongly advise getting a L2 charging station if you commute any more than 20 miles per day. You absolutely will not be able to do a 65 mile commute on 120V if you have to factor in cold winter driving. There aren't enough hours in the day to charge, unfortunately, at 120V in this scenario.

As far as stepping up to 240V, I don't think that's going to help. I'm not an electrician, so I have only a layman's understanding of how it all works- but it's my understanding that if you could step up 120V to 240V, it will do so by stepping down the amperage on the output side. So assuming we're talking about a 15A circuit, a continuous 120V @ 12A available load (80% is maximum safe continuous) would become 240V @ 6A available to the EVSE, minus the losses associated within the transformer. In the end, if you could do it safely, your car would actually charge more slowly this way, due to efficiency that is lost in conversion. Again, I'm no electrician, but that's my understanding of how this would work. I'm sure the transformer would be capable of more than 6A output, but input would exceed the safe 12A, and you would be at risk of tripping the breaker or melting wires and causing a fire.

 

[EVforRobert]

65mi/4 mi/h= 16.25 hours. L1 is super slow. I know everyone is being helpful and all, but the owners manual says not to use an extension cord.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Extension cords are not inherently unusable, but there is a greater risk of some component (plugs, sockets, wires) not being up to snuff, with a fire possibly resulting. A 240 volt extension cord, to be reasonably safe, would have to have twist-lock connections, including, preferably, at the outlet. That is how RV 240 volt extension cords are usually constructed. Also, is that A/C the only thing on that 15 amp, 240 (NOT 220) volt circuit? Even if it is, I think that even the EVSE Upgrade charging cable can only be dialed down to 16 amps, although I'm not certain of that. You'd have to find one that can be set to limit charging current to 12 amps at 240 volts, which would mean the charging time would be half that of 120 (not 110) volt charging, which is still fairly slow.

I think we need to summarize a bit, here. The answer to the title question is "Yes, you can own (or lease, like me) a Leaf without a garage." However, you can't safely commute 65 miles, especially in cold weather, without reliable L-2 charging, or, possibly, reliable L-1 charging at both home and work.

 

[fooljoe]

Can you give me a simple answer whether this set up will work? and it will charge faster than L1? And how long would it take to fully charge?

The simple answer is sure, it would work. With a 240V/15A circuit you'll charge at 12A and have twice the power available as L1 (120V/12A). Charges would complete in a little less than half the time, however, as charging at 240V is more efficient. Roughly you can expect to replenish about 10 miles per hour at that rate, so figure about 7 hours to replace what you use for your 65 mile commute.

Of course you'll need an EVSE than can be dialed down to 12A. The EVSEupgrade CAN go as low as 6A, as can an openEVSE. Others can ONLY charge at 12A, including the Clipper Creek LCS-15. Just make sure your extension cord / plug adapter is high quality and uses at least 12 gauge wiring.

 

[blinder]

I think I finally find a solution.
There is a device call Quick 220 system. http://www.quick220.com/
Simply plug to two 110 v sockets, provided the two outlets are not sync, and the device output 220V. All I need then is EVSE upgrade or TurboCord. Goodbye to L1 charging. I like to hear your opinion on this.

The remaining question is should I get a 15 Amp device or 20 Amp device?
BTW, I live in Southern CA, so cold weather is not a concern.

 

[LeftieBiker]

That device would completely "fill" two regular household circuits, excepting a low-wattage light or two. Do you have two free circuits? Safety is also a concern, for the same reason as using an extension cord. The A/C circuit, with a new outlet in it, would probably be safer. If you do go this route, a 15 amp EVSE would be best.

 

[Valdemar]

I think I finally find a solution.
There is a device call Quick 220 system. http://www.quick220.com/
Simply plug to two 110 v sockets, provided the two outlets are not sync, and the device output 220V. All I need then is EVSE upgrade or TurboCord. Goodbye to L1 charging. I like to hear your opinion on this.

The remaining question is should I get a 15 Amp device or 20 Amp device?
BTW, I live in Southern CA, so cold weather is not a concern.

No offense, but you clearly have no idea about electricity and associated dangers. If you are unable to install a proper L2 charging station at your complex please, at least just stick to 120V charging from a good outlet that can provide 12A continuous, preferably inspected by a qualified electrician, and keep yourself and your neighbors safe. The outlet must be grounded btw, which is something you need to verify. If you end up with an extension cord through your window scenario consider installing a GFCI outlet, better be safe than sorry.

 

[LeftieBiker]

No offense, but you clearly have no idea about electricity and associated dangers. If you are unable to install a proper L2 charging station at your complex please, at least just stick to 120V charging from a good outlet that can provide 12A continuous, preferably inspected by a qualified electrician, and keep yourself and your neighbors safe. The outlet must be grounded btw, which is something you need to verify. If you end up with an extension cord through your window scenario consider installing a GFCI outlet, better be safe than sorry.

I agree, and since L-1 charging alone is unlikely to work, I suggest that blinder lease a PHEV instead of walking a tightrope with a BEV, then revisit the idea in two or three years. Failing that, the A/C outlet is a safer bet than combining two existing 120 volt circuits, if the wiring is sound.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I agree, and since L-1 charging alone is unlikely to work, I suggest that blinder lease a PHEV instead of walking a tightrope with a BEV, then revisit the idea in two or three years. Failing that, the A/C outlet is a safer bet than combining two existing 120 volt circuits, if the wiring is sound.

This is the best advice, IMO, in this thread. We now know that you can charge at work. The 2016 Volt gets 53 miles of electric range. Those two factors combined will allow you to do your commute 100% electric. And you have a backup plan in case somebody "pulls the plug" so to speak on your ability to charge (at home or at work). You can lease the car for 2-3 years, and get a good feel for whether a BEV will work long-term. Then in 2-3 years, you can buy a BEV with a ~200 mile range which will provide plenty of margin for those edge cases (extra errands, your outlet is blocked one day, etc).

 

[sub3marathonman]

I think I finally find a solution.
There is a device call Quick 220 system. http://www.quick220.com/
Simply plug to two 110 v sockets, provided the two outlets are not sync, and the device output 220V. All I need then is EVSE upgrade or TurboCord. Goodbye to L1 charging. I like to hear your opinion on this.

The remaining question is should I get a 15 Amp device or 20 Amp device?
BTW, I live in Southern CA, so cold weather is not a concern.

This is not a bad idea, it is a TERRIBLE idea. Forget about it immediately.

Some of the more adventurous types might use it, but the only place I've ever heard is at a campground. It might be in the small print and not sound like a big deal, but it is a requirement that each 120V outlet is on a separate leg of the 240V feed. So when you plug it in at your house to the two outlets next to each other, that won't work. I don't know if it would be a disaster, but I'm not going to find out either.

At 65 miles, you're not recharging from zero. You've got at least 8 or 9 hours at work. You've got at least as much at home. You can get the EVSE upgraded charger, be good for both 120V and if necessary 240V, and if things are getting low you can do the 240V for a few hours. You're not going to be under 65 miles of range for many, many years. If things get really bad there must be a public charger somewhere convenient there that can be used.

 

[desiv]

This is not a bad idea, it is a TERRIBLE idea. Forget about it immediately.

I don't know if I'd go that far.. ;-)
If you check out the website, the device looks fairly well made/supported and looks to have the safety features so it won't just hook up the same 110 circuit twice.. (but won't work unless you actually connect it to 2 plugs on different circuits).

That being said, I don't think it's a good idea.
For one thing, the site seems to be selling this thing for transient work sites. i.e. You can use it in a safe manner when you have to for shorter periods of time. But it doesn't appear to be designed for long term connections, which you'd want for an EV.

Also, there's the whole issue of making sure your 110v plugs are good.
Everyone knows that a heater can cause a fire with a bad plug. Now imagine you're using that heater every nite. You better make sure your plug is safe. Now, in this case, you're using 2 of them. ;-)

That said, if you have 2 safe 110v plugs on different circuits fairly close to one another, it's probably fine.

Of course, I think another risk with this type of device is that it probably leads itself to using extension cords to find different circuits.
How safe are those extension cords?

And then, really, when you add up what you are spending, are you really saving that much?

I can see situations (where you have 2 plugs on different circuits close enough to be useful and you KNOW they are safe circuits/plugs) where this thing would be fine. Perfectly safe.
My concern is that I can see many more situations where people are plugging them into questionable plugs with questionable extension cords all to save a few hundred bucks?

It's a great looking product when used appropriately. I just don't see EVs (especially every night charging) as the right target for this product.

Just my $0.0000000000002. ;-)

desiv

 

[blinder]

I think I finally find a solution.
There is a device call Quick 220 system. http://www.quick220.com/
Simply plug to two 110 v sockets, provided the two outlets are not sync, and the device output 220V. All I need then is EVSE upgrade or TurboCord. Goodbye to L1 charging. I like to hear your opinion on this.

The remaining question is should I get a 15 Amp device or 20 Amp device?
BTW, I live in Southern CA, so cold weather is not a concern.

This is not a bad idea, it is a TERRIBLE idea. Forget about it immediately.

Some of the more adventurous types might use it, but the only place I've ever heard is at a campground. It might be in the small print and not sound like a big deal, but it is a requirement that each 120V outlet is on a separate leg of the 240V feed. So when you plug it in at your house to the two outlets next to each other, that won't work. I don't know if it would be a disaster, but I'm not going to find out either.

At 65 miles, you're not recharging from zero. You've got at least 8 or 9 hours at work. You've got at least as much at home. You can get the EVSE upgraded charger, be good for both 120V and if necessary 240V, and if things are getting low you can do the 240V for a few hours. You're not going to be under 65 miles of range for many, many years. If things get really bad there must be a public charger somewhere convenient there that can be used.

I know I am not suppose to plug two 110v into the same circuit. The outlet at my car port is on different circuit than my apartment. So I am thinking that the two 110v are plug to my car port and apartment.
Now I am leaning toward the AC set up as most of you suggested it is a saver option. The two 110V set up is my back up plan in case I move to a new apartment that doesn't have a 220v outlet.

One poster suggested getting a PHEV instead. I am now driving a toyota corolla and it get me 30 mpg. So a PHEV would not be a big saving over my corolla.

Some of you suggested to have an electrician to install a L2 charging station. Well I just can't afford it. I am trying to make it work with whats available.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

One poster suggested getting a PHEV instead. I am now driving a toyota corolla and it get me 30 mpg. So a PHEV would not be a big saving over my corolla.

I disagree with this conclusion. As I said above, you could make your entire commute on electricity in a Volt. Heck, even a 2011-2015 Volt (38 miles) could do it, given your ability to charge at work. A 2016 Volt (53 miles) would be that much easier with the longer range.

There are plenty of reasons you may not want a PHEV, but with the right one, you could still be 100% electric for your commute, and have a nice backup in case things don't go as planned.

 

[blinder]

This is what from the site of Quick 220 system. Seems like the device has EV charging in mind.

<<<Quick 220 and 240 voltage converters make it simple and convenient to power air conditioners, computer servers, technical equipment, air compressors, or any other 220-240 volt device without the hassle of having to relocate it near an existing 220 volt line. If you’re using a portable device like professional cleaning equipment, welders, or electric vehicle chargers, you know that not every place you visit has a free 220 volt outlet. Using our voltage converters, you can power all of the mobile equipment you need for your business and you’re no longer limited to traveling short distances in your electric vehicle to only places with pre-existing charging stations.

Our voltage converters also make it easy to power most international appliances requiring 220 / 230 / 240V. Available plug adapters allow you to easily connect any shape of AC mains plug.

Best of all, there is no bulky box taking up space. Quick 220’s voltage converters are small, portable, and lightweight. Each adapter unit measures 6.5in x 5in x 3in and weighs less than 4 pounds. Our 220 and 240 voltage converters can easily be tucked out of the way near the device you are powering or packed up and taken to the job site with your equipment or on the road with you. Now, you have your complete mobile charging setup for your electric vehicle.>>>

 

[Nubo]

My car port is right next to my bedroom, and lets assume theft is not a concern. And I am smart enough to know not to run AC and charging at the same time. I also will charge a night when I have very little appliances running. Also assume the landlord is Ok with me running an extension cord from my AC socket to my car port. Can you give me a simple answer whether this set up will work? and it will charge faster than L1? And how long would it take to fully charge?

The electrical code doesn't care if you're smart enough. It requires that a 240V circuit have only ONE load attached. So you need to set this up so that you cannot possibly run both at the same time. Without investing in elaborate switching equipment, that means plugging and unplugging the EVSE and AC. It's important to note that the 240V outlet is not designed for a huge number of plug/unplug cycles. So if you intend to be switching devices daily, this is probably not a good way to go.

I think you also said the 240V circuit goes to a 15A breaker? That seems unusual* but if it's true then very few Level2 EVSE's can be used on it. Most draw 16 amps or more and you're only allowed to draw a max of 12A continuous from a 15A circuit. You'd need an EVSE that can be "dialed down" to 12 or fewer amps.

Running an extension cord across a public area presents a danger to others, regardless of the landlord's opinion, unless you can be sure that there will be no foot traffic/mowing/gardening/etc... And your plan should not depend on getting up early enough to move the cord.

Based on the questions and proposals you've presented I'd strongly suggest you pay for a bit of an electrician's time to talk this over. There are important reasons for a lot of the electrical rules that may seem like unreasonable impediments to you at the moment. Whether or not something will work is not the same as whether or not you should do it. People have successfully ridden over Niagara falls in barrels... It works.

*are you sure the AC is on 240V? There are window units that run 120V. I've not seen a 15A 240V circuit. FYI, 240V circuits go to 2 breakers, or a double-breaker.

 

[desiv]

... and you’re no longer limited to traveling short distances in your electric vehicle to only places with pre-existing charging stations.

That quote does cover EVs, but it sounds like it's talking about short term destination charging, not all night every night home charging... (at least to me)
Again, I'm not saying it won't work.
Just that you need to make sure that you have 2 different circuits close enough and that those circuits are in good shape and have enough AMPs..

That's not a common situation. But given you have that, it should be fine..

What concerns me about this device is people using it where ever they find a few plugs, regardless of the shape of those plugs/circuits.. Adding extension cords, etc...

I think it can work in the right situation. Just that situation isn't "where ever I find 2 plugs.". ;-)

desiv