Breaking Bad. HOV lane edition

[TomT]

Here is what the CHP has to say about it...

"Can motorcycle riders "split" lanes and ride between other vehicles?"

"Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible but must be done in a safe and prudent manner.
For more information, visit our California Motorcyclist Safety Program page."

 

[mwalsh]

The emblem looks right for an Energi. If it's a fake, it the guy put some effort in it.

True. And he would have had to debadge the Hybrid emblem from the other side. So my money is probably on the wrong decals being sent. Wonder if that's going to do him any good when he gets pulled over? I see at least a court appearance in his future, so he can plead his case.

I just saw a TV ad for the PIP, and it was also rocking white stickers. So maybe this is something new and legit?

 

[mwalsh]

Saw a Toyota sedan of some kind today sporting green decals. Camry maybe? Could have been a hybrid, but you and I both know that Toyota doesn't do a plug-in sedan. Only saw it out of the corner of my eye as it passed me, and I was already getting over for my exit, so no chance to chase it down and take a photo.

This fake decal thing is getting a bit out of hand, and I haven't seen a CHP motorcycle officer staking out the usual spot for catching cheaters (where the turnout is in the median for CHP vehicles, at Del Amo St. on the 405) for ages. So clearly not getting the necessary level of enforcement.

 

[NYLEAF]

In NJ & NY you don't need any stickers!

That's not really true, actually. NY issues "Clean Pass" stickers to qualifying Hybrids & Plugins for access to HOV lanes that participate in the Clean Pass program. The only HOV lanes that currently participate are the ones on the Long Island Expressway, and only the lanes in Nassau and Suffolk, not the part in Queens that leads to the Midtown Tunnel. It's kind of ridiculous that the State hasn't included any other roads after all these years.

An example of what the decals look like on a vehicle. I couldn't find a better picture, and I never bothered to get my stickers for my Leaf since I really never travel on that part of the LIE.

An example of road signage indicating that Clean Pass stickers are accepted. Without this sign, your Leaf will get a ticket in an HOV lane in New York, even if it has stickers.

 

[thankyouOB]

my leaf will never make it out of CA, but it hates with a passion the pay-to-play HOT Lanes, where the rich can drive fast and the rest of us, even EVs, get the big finger.

 

[apvbguy]

my leaf will never make it out of CA, but it hates with a passion the pay-to-play HOT Lanes, where the rich can drive fast and the rest of us, even EVs, get the big finger.

your leaf is sentient? does anyone else know about your amazing vehicle?

 

[RonDawg]

my leaf will never make it out of CA, but it hates with a passion the pay-to-play HOT Lanes, where the rich can drive fast and the rest of us, even EVs, get the big finger.

You don't have to be rich to use them. Many truck and SUV drivers spend more than the fee on just gas alone. If it's that important to you, take some of the savings from not having to buy gas (and/or your Federal and state EV subsidy) and spend it on a FasTrak.

If you still think the fee is too much, you can still carpool and travel these lanes for free (but still need a FasTrak), just like the good ol' days.

 

[thankyouOB]

my leaf will never make it out of CA, but it hates with a passion the pay-to-play HOT Lanes, where the rich can drive fast and the rest of us, even EVs, get the big finger.

You don't have to be rich to use them. Many truck and SUV drivers spend more than the fee on just gas alone. If it's that important to you, take some of the savings from not having to buy gas (and/or your Federal and state EV subsidy) and spend it on a FasTrak.

If you still think the fee is too much, you can still carpool and travel these lanes for free (but still need a FasTrak), just like the good ol' days.

Lexus Lanes give nothing back to the vast majority of drivers. it is simply a preference on the PUBLIC roads for those who can afford it or deduct it.

 

[RonDawg]

Lexus Lanes give nothing back to the vast majority of drivers. it is simply a preference on the PUBLIC roads for those who can afford it or deduct it.

And we as BEV/PHEV owners and lessees are just as guilty of that. In CA we got up to a $10k (and more for early BEV adopters) government subsidy to allow us to buy or lease a vehicle (which is still out of financial reach of many) which can also travel solo in HOV lanes. We may not contribute to the smog but we still contribute to the traffic congestion. If anything we clog those lanes even more when we use them solo, just like the "rich" do.

 

[ksnogas2112]

You know, reading through this thread makes me very happy to drive around here. I'll take on the Orange Barrel Rat Maze any day because everyone has to deal with it.

 

[thankyouOB]

And we as BEV/PHEV owners and lessees are just as guilty of that. In CA we got up to a $10k (and more for early BEV adopters) government subsidy to allow us to buy or lease a vehicle (which is still out of financial reach of many) which can also travel solo in HOV lanes. We may not contribute to the smog but we still contribute to the traffic congestion. If anything we clog those lanes even more when we use them solo, just like the "rich" do.

leaving aside the EV issue, why do you think it is a good idea to allow solo drivers to pay their way into faster lanes on public roads?
i dont get it.
in my experience, it is totally false to say that it speeds up the other lanes. and there is no good data, even from METRO, to show that it does.

 

[thankyouOB]

From today's LATimes and a story about toll lanes in Orange County, where hiway bureacrats want to change the HOV lanes on the 405 Freeway to Toll Lanes:
Costa Mesa Mayor Jim Righeimer described the toll roads as "Lexus lanes" at one public meeting and suggested that it could pave the way for more toll roads in Orange County, such as on the 5 Freeway.

Under congestion-based pricing, tolls rise during peak crunch times and fall during the hours when traffic typically thins out.

The Orange County Transportation Agency projects that tolls along the 405 would peak at $9.91 for northbound trips and $6.11 for southbound trips.

Many leaders in Orange County have voiced firm opposition to the toll. Huntington Beach Mayor Connie Boardman says residents are already paying for their roads with gas taxes and Measure M, the county's voter-approved half-cent sales tax for transportation projects.

Orange County Supervisor John Moorlach called it "a whole new definition to the term 'highway robbery.'"

 

[RonDawg]

leaving aside the EV issue, why do you think it is a good idea to allow solo drivers to pay their way into faster lanes on public roads?
i dont get it.
in my experience, it is totally false to say that it speeds up the other lanes. and there is no good data, even from METRO, to show that it does.

I see no difference between an ICEV driver paying his way to use the HOT lanes via a FasTrak transponder, and a BEV/PHEV driver paying his way (through the higher cost of the car) to be able to use an HOV lane solo. Many would argue that we are even more privileged, because we got a government subsidy to obtain our vehicles, unlike the ICEV and non-plug-in-hybrid drivers.

I would also argue that while we help keep SoCal's air cleaner, those who pay to use the HOT lanes are also helping to subsidize road maintenance and future upgrades (perhaps the latter is not true, but it could be used for that, and IMHO should be used for that).

I just think that as a Leaf driver, your criticizing those who choose to use the HOT lanes is the pot calling the kettle black.

 

[thankyouOB]

leaving aside the EV issue, why do you think it is a good idea to allow solo drivers to pay their way into faster lanes on public roads?
i dont get it.
in my experience, it is totally false to say that it speeds up the other lanes. and there is no good data, even from METRO, to show that it does.

I see no difference between an ICEV driver paying his way to use the HOT lanes via a FasTrak transponder, and a BEV/PHEV driver paying his way (through the higher cost of the car) to be able to use an HOV lane solo. Many would argue that we are even more privileged, because we got a government subsidy to obtain our vehicles, unlike the ICEV and non-plug-in-hybrid drivers.

I would also argue that while we help keep SoCal's air cleaner, those who pay to use the HOT lanes are also helping to subsidize road maintenance and future upgrades (perhaps the latter is not true, but it could be used for that, and IMHO should be used for that).

I just think that as a Leaf driver, your criticizing those who choose to use the HOT lanes is the pot calling the kettle black.

you miss or choose to disregard my question and debate a different issue.
Let me repeat my question:

leaving aside the EV issue, why do you think it is a good idea to allow solo drivers to pay their way into faster lanes on public roads?
i dont get it.

In other words, I am asking why you defend opening high occupancy lanes to single-driver cars who can pay the toll, leaving the rest of us in the other lanes.
For the purpose of the question, you can assume there are no EV preferences.

(In fact, EVs lose the preference in the new LA and OC Lexus Lanes. The only single-occupant cars that can drive in the lanes are those that will pay the $5-20 tax.)

 

[Nubo]

why do you think it is a good idea to allow solo drivers to pay their way into faster lanes on public roads?

And it's quite an interesting racket. Provide poor service and then make people pay extra to avoid it!

 

[RonDawg]

leaving aside the EV issue, why do you think it is a good idea to allow solo drivers to pay their way into faster lanes on public roads?
i dont get it.
in my experience, it is totally false to say that it speeds up the other lanes. and there is no good data, even from METRO, to show that it does.

I see no difference between an ICEV driver paying his way to use the HOT lanes via a FasTrak transponder, and a BEV/PHEV driver paying his way (through the higher cost of the car) to be able to use an HOV lane solo. Many would argue that we are even more privileged, because we got a government subsidy to obtain our vehicles, unlike the ICEV and non-plug-in-hybrid drivers.

I would also argue that while we help keep SoCal's air cleaner, those who pay to use the HOT lanes are also helping to subsidize road maintenance and future upgrades (perhaps the latter is not true, but it could be used for that, and IMHO should be used for that).

I just think that as a Leaf driver, your criticizing those who choose to use the HOT lanes is the pot calling the kettle black.

you miss or choose to disregard my question and debate a different issue.
Let me repeat my question:

leaving aside the EV issue, why do you think it is a good idea to allow solo drivers to pay their way into faster lanes on public roads?
i dont get it.

In other words, I am asking why you defend opening high occupancy lanes to single-driver cars who can pay the toll, leaving the rest of us in the other lanes.
For the purpose of the question, you can assume there are no EV preferences.

(In fact, EVs lose the preference in the new LA and OC Lexus Lanes. The only single-occupant cars that can drive in the lanes are those that will pay the $5-20 tax.)

Want an answer? How about this. YES I think it should be allowed. Why? Because I can afford it.

We are both paying extra for the privilege of being able to drive in a less congested lane, whether it be via FasTrak or paying more for our cars. We who drive BEVs/PHEVs solo in the HOV lanes are no better than those "rich" folks who use the Lexus Lanes. Only the way the privilege was granted is different.

By your thinking, BEVs and PHEVs should also be banned from HOV lanes. Would you be agreeable to that? Are you going to peel off those white stickers from the back of your Leaf?

Yes I am aware that the LA Metro lanes don't allow HOV-exemption-stickered cars to ride for free unless they also meet the minimum occupancy standard. I have a FasTrak and occasionally use the El Monte Busway. I guess that makes me doubly "rich" :roll:

 

[ebill3]

Gee, in WA, we say HOV lanes are to encourage car-pooling, thus reducing congestion. With the exception of one short toll stretch, it is double up or keep out of the HOV lane.

I don't have any hard statistics, but by my reckoning, I doubt that the number paying to use our one toll stretch will ever make up for the cost of planning, new striping, new signs, and Good-To-Go pass sensors.

 

[dgpcolorado]

Want an answer? How about this. YES I think it should be allowed. Why? Because I can afford it.

We are both paying extra for the privilege of being able to drive in a less congested lane, whether it be via FasTrak or paying more for our cars. We who drive BEVs/PHEVs solo in the HOV lanes are no better than those "rich" folks who use the Lexus Lanes. Only the way the privilege was granted is different...

While I don't have a dog in this fight — no freeways here — I will point out that BEVs/PHEVs are given the use of the HOV lanes as an incentive to further the goal of cleaner air. That seems quite different from allowing ICE drivers to buy their way into the lanes as a source of additional fee revenue. IMHO, of course.

 

[thankyouOB]

rondawg: thanks for being so truthful.
i do disagree that it is all about the Benjamins. (see below)
dgpcolorado: i think you sum up the incentive position; there is a social purpose to allowing EVs in the HOV lanes, and it will terminate, as it did for hybrids, when the EVs are more common.

 

[RonDawg]

Again the point I am making here is that a BEV/PHEV driver who drives solo in a HOV lane is morally no better than a conventional ICEV driver paying to use a HOT lane solo. As already pointed out above, if I want to drive my Leaf solo in a HOT lane, I still have to pay the toll anyway. I don't know about elsewhere, but in LA County Metro has the option of locking out solo drivers from these lanes if traffic speeds on them fall below a certain threshold. The El Monte Busway still requires 2+ occupants at all times and 3+ during peak commute hours even with a FasTrak. The three white stickers on my Leaf's rear bumper allows me to legally ignore that requirement, but I still have to pay for the privilege.

While it is true that BEV/PHEV adoption is being encouraged for pollution control purposes, it still is another car to clog up our roadways. If a so-called "rich" person is willing to pay for privilege to help fund our transportation maintenance and future upgrades, and keep my taxes from going up, I don't see why it's so horrible. Also, in California EVs aren't charged any more registration fees than an equivalently-priced ICEV, and we don't pay gas taxes, but we still get to use the same roads as them while paying less than everybody else. So we are the last persons who should be engaged in class warfare with those who are willing to pay to use HOT lanes.

There are many folks who think we should not be getting government incentives for our cars either. They ask why should they subsidize my desire to drive an electric car? I counter such folks by asking them if they take tax deductions for home mortgage interest or dependents. When they say yes, I then ask them why should taxpayers fund their desire to own their homes or have children? They never have an answer for that.