Bought a 2011 Leaf on 03/15/2015 with a "new pack", but...

[kuri]

Here's the problem. What judge is going to take anything leafspy says as evidence? You and I both know it's accuracy is dead on, but you think the dealer won't immediately say it's bogus data and their test is the only valid data there is?

At the end of the day, it only matters what I can prove to a judge if I end up having to force their hand.

 

[DaveEV]

Also, you should take a reading with your OBD while the car is charged to 100%.

Look at the pack voltage of 393V and cell-pair voltages peaking at 4.1V - it was charged to "100%". Sometimes the '11-12 LEAF will report a lower than normal SOC, usually when it gets confused by QCs or other non-normal charging. Or in this case, when it's trying to re-learn a well-used battery pack. Would be interesting to see if it continuously reads low.

Here's the problem. What judge is going to take anything leafspy says as evidence? You and I both know it's accuracy is dead on, but you think the dealer won't immediately say it's bogus data and their test is the only valid data there is?

At the end of the day, it only matters what I can prove to a judge if I end up having to force their hand.

Your other option is to perform a charge from turtle to 100% and record the amount of energy from the wall it takes to recharge. On a new LEAF, this is 24-25 kWh or so. If your 100% charge is only getting 180 GIDs, I suspect you'd see less than 18 kWh. With 45 AHr remaining, you're not far from getting a new pack, anyway (45 Ahr should have 3-bars missing, so only 1 bar away), and I suspect you'll lose enough bars just in time to qualify under warranty even if you can't coerce Nissan to do the right thing.

Now we're in a bit of a pickle, as this is our only vehicle, and after I drive to work each day (43 miles round trip), I get home with barely 1 bar left every day, which doesn't leave anything for us to do anything else and it's severely cramping our lifestyle.

I would start charging the car immediately when you get home every night. 1 hour of charging will get you about 12 miles of range, so if you're home a bit before you head back out, you should be able to pick up the range you need to run your errands.

Also, take the time to drive to the 2nd low battery warning, you may have more range between LBW and VLBW than you think. The range remaining from VLBW to LBW can be conservatively estimated to be about half the range you got from LBW to VLBW, but sometimes it can be quite a bit more depending on how out-of-sync the BMS is.

 

[RegGuheert]

Here's the problem. What judge is going to take anything leafspy says as evidence? You and I both know it's accuracy is dead on, but you think the dealer won't immediately say it's bogus data and their test is the only valid data there is?

At the end of the day, it only matters what I can prove to a judge if I end up having to force their hand.

I don't disagree.

That said, I don't think your car will fail this test, either. IMO, it is easier to find out by simply doing the test yourself than to deal with the dealership. If it fails for you, then you can take it in.

The other reason to do this test yourself is that many dealerships simply do this test incorrectly, which result in a PASS, even though the car should FAIL. If you have done the test properly yourself and know what the result should be, you will have a better chance of catching them if they make a mistake.

I do agree with others: I expect you will qualify for a new, improved battery before the end of your warranty period, maybe even by the end of this summer.

 

[kolmstead]

Kuri, if you have the full service history of your Leaf, and the bms was reset, there should be the following entry in your documentation: CLEAR BATTERY GRADUAL CAPACITY LOSS DATA

If you indeed have this notation, you have the proof that the bms was tampered with. Sadly, you aren't the first to be taken in by this procedure. An honest, informed dealer would not permit this to be done to a used Leaf, since it serves no purpose unless the battery has been replaced.

-Karl

 

[RegGuheert]

If you indeed have this notation, you have the proof that the bms was tampered with. Sadly, you aren't the first to be taken in by this procedure. An honest, informed dealer would not permit this to be done to a used Leaf, since it serves no purpose unless the battery has been replaced.

Perhaps the dealer recently did the P3227 update, in which case the reset was part of the update and was entirely appropriate.

That doesn't excuse the misrepresentation about the battery, mind you...

 

[kolmstead]

Reg, I don't think that clearing the battery history is a normal part of P3227 update. My bms data was unchanged, at least for a couple of days after P3227. No restoration of capacity bars. And no notation in the service record.

-Karl

 

[mwalsh]

Reg, I don't think that clearing the battery history is a normal part of P3227 update. My bms data was unchanged, at least for a couple of days after P3227. No restoration of capacity bars. And no notation in the service record.

-Karl

There have been a couple of instances where that has been done though, inadvertently or otherwise. But, no, it's not normal.

 

[kuri]

Perhaps the dealer recently did the P3227 update

In reading the service history I have in front of me right now, P3227 was done on 02/10/2014 when the Inverter control unit and intelligent power distribution module were replaced. I see nothing else on this besides a basic inspection done before it was sold to me.

As a side note, here are fresh LeafSpy readings and a dash pic taken this morning (yeah, I need to clean it, sorry) right after taking it off the charger, before leaving for work:

https://imgur.com/a/jHvHz" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveEV]

https://imgur.com/a/jHvHz

42.89 Ah - You're already in the 4-bar loser Ah range.

Just need to wait for the bars to catch up, might take a month or two, but it will happen.

 

[RegGuheert]

https://imgur.com/a/jHvHz

42.89 Ah - You're already in the 4-bar loser Ah range.

Just need to wait for the bars to catch up, might take a month or two, but it will happen.

That's awesome! If you can stand to sit tight until the bars drop, I think you will be happy once the battery is replaced.

 

[kuri]

Kuri, if you have the full service history of your Leaf, and the bms was reset, there should be the following entry in your documentation: CLEAR BATTERY GRADUAL CAPACITY LOSS DATA

There's nothing in the service history that says anything like this. I will try to get a scan of the service history and remove any obvious identifying information and get it posted today. Lots of work stuff to get done, so I'm not sure I'm going to get to it.

 

[DaveEV]

If you can stand to sit tight until the bars drop, I think you will be happy once the battery is replaced.

Personally, I'd still try to raise hell - this type of situation is something that Nissan needs to address to help protect the used car market.

 

[kuri]

Personally, I'd still try to raise hell

Oh believe me, once I have my ducks in a row, hell will be raised. There's no question about that...

 

[mwalsh]

https://imgur.com/a/jHvHz

42.89 Ah - You're already in the 4-bar loser Ah range.

Just need to wait for the bars to catch up, might take a month or two, but it will happen.

You're misreading it. I never look to that screen for an AHr reading. The correct AHr reading is on the screen with the cell graph.

 

[Phatcat73]

Kuri - Did you call the Nissan EV line and explain the situation? Ask for a customer relations contact and get Nissan corporate's position on BMS resets.

Salesmen are notorious liars to get you to close the deal or sway you to a more profitable sale. Suggest discussion with the sales manager and if that 2013 is still on the lot, then a swap approach as well. 1 star Yelp reviews may also get their attention.

 

[kuri]

As I've stated multiple times in this thread, I've called Corp EV support a few times. They're the ones that have assured me multiple times that the battery has not been replaced in the car.

 

[RegGuheert]

You're misreading it. I never look to that screen for an AHr reading. The correct AHr reading is on the screen with the cell graph.

You're right. So it's 45.19 AHr.

Still, a new battery is imminent, IMO.

 

[DaveEV]

You're misreading it. I never look to that screen for an AHr reading. The correct AHr reading is on the screen with the cell graph.

Doh, you're right. That's the available AHr, which would be about 95% of the total AHr available based on SOC.

 

[tkdbrusco]

It seems like a lot of you on this post are being way too passive about this. If I were in the OPs position I would be completely pissed off and out for blood. He was sold a false bill of goods, from a Nissan dealer none the less that could have easily checked the state of the battery and whether it was a true replacement. They likely also sold the car at a higher price because of this. I would demand them to refund me a portion of the money and also give me the option to sell them back the car at the purchase price if I didn't qualify for the battery replacement under the warranty. If they didn't agree, it would be lawsuit time and I would publicly expose the dealer to the media, the blogs, contact Nissan corporate, etc...

We had our dealer misrepresent the extended warranty on our car as something that also extended the battery capacity warranty. When they were not willing to make it right, all it took was us threatening to plaster their name all over this forum as well as do the same on Apple's employee email group for EV owners.

OPs issue is much bigger than this and he is significantly put out by the ordeal as he now has a car that is nearly unusable for his daily needs.

 

[RegGuheert]

I'm not passive about this stuff, either. I have been as hard on Nissan as nearly anyone here about the entire battery degradation issue. I've been critical of Nissan on these boards, and I have also pushed them on this topic directly when I was on the advisory board. Note that I predicted this exact scenario would happen LONG before it ever did.

How OP handles this is entirely up to him. But I do think he needs to understand that this deal may work out very well for him just as he had planned if he can only get through this summer. I think his purchase of the MY2011 actually will turn out to be a much better choice than the MY2013 he looked at.