Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

[MikeD]

davewill: I agree with your last post [NOTICE: After I posted this davewill's post that I am referring to disappeared -- I guess this means he chose to delete it. I thought his post was very thoughtful, and it concluded by saying although he did not think there was conclusive proof that the Blink was at fault, he thought it probably was.] regarding the uncertainty about the nature and the scope of this potential problem. However, I know I was being a PITA in my recent insistent posts on this subject, but I was trying to generate more knowledge about specific concerns that you and I and many others have over this -- and to reduce the FUD.

I suspect that Nissan is completely prepared for the possibility of EVSE irregularities with its 2013 model's higher powered charger -- it has too much at stake not to be, and after all they seem to have done well on the whole with its Leaf up to now. Sales have been slower than expected, but posters on this forum have big opportunities to indirectly affect that.

I for one have been trying to contact Nissan over these concerns since last Wed. I missed a return call from Technical Support yesterday, but expect to talk directly to them tomorrow and will report back.

 

[waidy]

Does this mean that if the crimps are done correctly, that the handle design itself is probably OK? I'm planning on getting an IR thermometer (always wanted one anyway...or maybe I need an IR camera...yeah that's it.) and perhaps inspecting the inside of my Blink J1772 handle. Not sure what I'll do if I find a problem since, technically, I'm not supposed to open it up, but I'll worry about that if I find something.

All you need is one of these:


Cost: $20.

If the crimps are good enough, then you are ok. Obviously one side in Tony's blink and one side (the opposite) in the other blink I examined were still good.

No need to take anything apart; just charge for at least 30 minutes with an SoC below 80%, then disconnect the handle. Point that thing (with the laser OFF) at your connector pins on the inlet and handle, specifically the top 2 (power carrying). Move it around slowly and look for the highest temp on each side. If there is a big Delta (difference) between the two sides, it probably means bad things to come.

-Phil

Thanks Phil. I have just ordered two. One for my daughter's house and one for my house. If you use coupon code 22478559, you get 20% off. Coupon expires 12/31/2012.

 

[MikeD]

Drees: You wrote: "BTW - with Phil's Blink showing a minimum thermal rise of 70F over ambient - that's clearly out of spec and would not pass UL.". Change of 70F ~= change of 39C which is less than the UL 2251 (Standards for Plugs, Receptacles, and Couplers for Electric Vehicles) Temperature Rise limit = 50C.

Look, I am just asking for as much clarity on this issue as we can muster. I know that I have written sentences I thought were perfectly clear (and often too long winded towards that end) that on retrospect turned out to be easily misinterpreted. And I have read sentences that I thought were sufficiently clear, but eventually find out the intended meaning was something else entirely. This type of forum is not the best for ensuring clarity.

Let's not lose sight that everyone has the same goal of making our existence "better", even though we may differ as to what "better" entails. The struggle continues

 

[TonyWilliams]

and to reduce the FUD.

What exactly is FUD concerning these events? Do you believe my contactor pin burnt up? Do you believe that Phil tested the exact same situation? Do you believe the observations he presented?

Sorry, I'm missing the FUD part.

I suspect that Nissan is completely prepared for the possibility of EVSE irregularities with its 2013 model's higher powered charger -- it has too much at stake not to be, and after all they seem to have done well on the whole with its Leaf up to now.

There's no magic... Nissan tested the batteries in Phoenix, but that didn't work out so well. Toyota tested and specifically approved the UL listed Blink. Eh, that's not looking so good.

Sales have been slower than expected, but posters on this forum have big opportunities to indirectly affect that.

Posters on this forum, by and large, are huge active proponents of electric vehicles. That's not why LEAF sales aren't so good.

I for one have been trying to contact Nissan over these concerns since last Wed. I missed a return call from Technical Support yesterday, but expect to talk directly to them tomorrow and will report back.

What are the concerns? The LEAF has not exhibited this problem. Are you referring to 2013 cars with optional 6.6 chargers? I seriously doubt you'll get anything more than a strict party line of "all is well, we have done oodles of testing, car is warranteed, thanks for calling, buh-bye."

 

[MikeD]

TonyWilliams: You no longer own a Leaf and you seem to be upset with Nissan about several Leaf issues (you wrote: "Are you referring to 2013 cars with optional 6.6 chargers? I seriously doubt you'll get anything more than a strict party line of "all is well, we have done oodles of testing, car is warranteed, thanks for calling, buh-bye.""). Nevertheless, I have enjoyed reading many of your prior posts, and quite a number I have found VERY informative. I look forward to seeing more of your "huge active proponents of electric vehicles"-type posts, even if it is for EVs (like the Rav4) other than the Leaf.

I'm sorry that there are sometimes "heated(!)" exchanges, but please don't take it personally. I believe there is value in "questioning authority".

 

[qwk]

TonyWilliams: You no longer own a Leaf and you seem to be upset with Nissan about several Leaf issues (you wrote: "Are you referring to 2013 cars with optional 6.6 chargers? I seriously doubt you'll get anything more than a strict party line of "all is well, we have done oodles of testing, car is warranteed, thanks for calling, buh-bye.""). Nevertheless, I have enjoyed reading many of your prior posts, and quite a number I have found VERY informative. I look forward to seeing more of your "huge active proponents of electric vehicles"-type posts, even if it is for EVs (like the Rav4) other than the Leaf.

I'm sorry that there are sometimes "heated(!)" exchanges, but please don't take it personally. I believe there is value in "questioning authority".

There is nothing to question. The charge port melted because of a horrible QC part(s). This is fully documented by Tony and Phil. The only thing left to further prove that Blink is junk is a house or EV burning down.

 

[LEAFfan]

No, it wasn't a 480 V QC plug, but a 120-240V J-plug.

 

[LEAFer]

No, it wasn't a 480 V QC plug, but a 120-240V J-plug.

qwk's abbreviation of QC was meant to convey "Quality Control" ... not Quick Charge.

 

[LEAFfan]

No, it wasn't a 480 V QC plug, but a 120-240V J-plug.

qwk's abbreviation of QC was meant to convey "Quality Control" ... not Quick Charge.

Oh, never mind then.

 

[TomT]

Remember that at first, the Volt EVSEs were over heating left and right... I wonder how common the Blink connector issue really is as a friend of mine has charged his Mini E at my house many times at 30 amps and there has never been an issue. In fact, the connector barely even gets warm. (I have a couple of infrared sensors but have never actually tested the connector so I can't give specific temperatures. I will next time though.) It may be the combination of the Blink and the Rave-4...

There is nothing to question. The charge port melted because of a horrible QC part(s). This is fully documented by Tony and Phil. The only thing left to further prove that Blink is junk is a house or EV burning down.

 

[thankyouOB]

the only connector i ever see getting warm is on the L! that came with the car.
the blink doesnt feel warm at all.

 

[MikeD]

qwk: You wrote: "The only thing left to further prove that Blink is junk is a house or EV burning down.". Believe it or not the risk of substantial damage is what I'm trying to avoid by insisting on further credible evidence, especially of does there seem to be a much wider problem? We really have no idea and I see no apparent effort to research it. Can you imagine the damage that would do to EV acceptance if EV charging caused a house to burn down due to a widespread EVSE defect? A good question to be discussed in the first place, however, is how likely is that to happen due to an overheated connection due to a poor connection? I don't expect it is likely at all with a Leaf (especially if the 2013 model protects for that), but my thoughts aren't backed up very well by relevant NEC/UL knowledge. It is reasonable to wonder what action Toyota is taking in regards to this incident.

 

[surfingslovak]

Mike, I get the impression the you are a true EVangel. Kudos to you. That said, this thread did an admirable job broadcasting this incident to several vendors and OEMs in the EV industry. Whether we can agree with the tone or the causality is one thing, having qualified people (Phil included) looking into the problem is another. And that's a desirable outcome, I believe. If this happened to my brand new car, I would be pretty vocal about it too. Especially, if I thought that others out there could be affected as well. And it appears that this is indeed the case.

The issue I'm having is that the J1772 pins are heating up too much. After 20 minutes, they reach the threshold and the car terminates charging. Sherri, I believe you saw this on a blink station a while back, right? They said they've only seen it on public stations. For me, it only happens on certain Blink units, so I know which ones I can charge at now. Their vehicle did heat up, but didn't reach the threshold in 20 minutes. Maybe it would have after a longer period of time. It sounds like it may be a combination of the inlet on the car and the connector on the EVSE. The EVSEs at my work go through about 4 cycles per weekday and run for 10-14 hours per weekday, so they are probably some of the more worn down units. I may contact ecotality so they can investigate as well.

Click to open

 

[cwerdna]

Remember that at first, the Volt EVSEs were over heating left and right... I wonder how common the Blink connector issue really is as a friend of mine has charged his Mini E at my house many times at 30 amps and there has never been an issue. In fact, the connector barely even gets warm. (I have a couple of infrared sensors but have never actually tested the connector so I can't give specific temperatures. I will next time though.) It may be the combination of the Blink and the Rave-4...

Yeah, but the Volt EVSE issues weren't at the J1772 handle or inlet, right? I thought it was the cords themselves.

As for the Mini E, it had a J1772 connector?

 

[GRA]

Remember that at first, the Volt EVSEs were over heating left and right... I wonder how common the Blink connector issue really is as a friend of mine has charged his Mini E at my house many times at 30 amps and there has never been an issue. In fact, the connector barely even gets warm. (I have a couple of infrared sensors but have never actually tested the connector so I can't give specific temperatures. I will next time though.) It may be the combination of the Blink and the Rave-4...

Yeah, but the Volt EVSE issues weren't at the J1772 handle or inlet, right? I thought it was the cords themselves.

As for the Mini E, it had a J1772 connector?

I believe the point being made is that it's unrealistic to assume that the car companies will have made sure that there will be no problems.

 

[davewill]

... If this happened to my brand new car, I would be pretty vocal about it too. Especially, if I thought that others out there could be affected as well. ...

Especially since his brand new car could have burnt his house to the ground. As much of a hassle as it was for Tony, this may have been a lucky break. A nice undeniable failure instead of some vague discoloration that either goes unnoticed or that no one would take seriously until it was too late.

 

[TomT]

Correct. Or that a problem in one case necessarily means that a problem is or is not endemic in general.

I believe the point being made is that it's unrealistic to assume that the car companies will have made sure that there will be no problems.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't expect it is likely at all with a Leaf (especially if the 2013 model protects for that), but my thoughts aren't backed up very well by relevant NEC/UL knowledge.

A 2013 LEAF will have a 30 amp connection available. We have absolutely ZERO data to suggest it will be somehow "protected". Your comments are the VERY DEFINITION of FUD.

So, an overheated pin on a LEAF will burn just as good as one on a Rav4. It is EXACTLY as likely to burn to the ground.

To my knowledge, only the Honda Fit and CHAdeMo connectors are thermal monitored / protected. And my Rav4 will be in a day or three.

 

[qwk]

qwk: You wrote: "The only thing left to further prove that Blink is junk is a house or EV burning down.". Believe it or not the risk of substantial damage is what I'm trying to avoid by insisting on further credible evidence, especially of does there seem to be a much wider problem? We really have no idea and I see no apparent effort to research it. Can you imagine the damage that would do to EV acceptance if EV charging caused a house to burn down due to a widespread EVSE defect? A good question to be discussed in the first place, however, is how likely is that to happen due to an overheated connection due to a poor connection? I don't expect it is likely at all with a Leaf (especially if the 2013 model protects for that), but my thoughts aren't backed up very well by relevant NEC/UL knowledge. It is reasonable to wonder what action Toyota is taking in regards to this incident.

There is credible evidence that Pacific Electric and Zinsco breaker boxes will fail to trip a breaker when a circuit is overloaded about 80% of the time. Guess what? There are tens of thousands of homes out there that still use these defective panels. They may work, but your chances of fire go substantially up. This is why most insurance companies will not insure a home with one of these panels.

Some people learn from others mistakes, some have to learn by making their own mistake...

 

[TonyWilliams]

TonyWilliams: You no longer own a Leaf and you seem to be upset with Nissan about several Leaf issues (you wrote: "Are you referring to 2013 cars with optional 6.6 chargers? I seriously doubt you'll get anything more than a strict party line of "all is well, we have done oodles of testing, car is warranteed, thanks for calling, buh-bye."").

I guess I wasn't quite clear... what "answer" do you expect to get from Nissan? "Stop the assembly lines!!! Somebody has called about the charging port."