Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

[Nubo]

FWIW, at an ambient temp of 66 degrees and after 80 minutes of L2 (16A) charging, the 1772 port on my LEAF read 75F on either pin. The plug is a Yazaki unit as part of a Leviton EVSE. The metal near the top of the Leviton box was a bit warmer at 85F as was its 6-20P plug. I think this will be a worthwhile check every few months.

 

[Ingineer]

Here's a brief how-to for the thermal protection modification on the Rav4 EV, though this should generally apply to any EV with some modifications. I don't think it's needed on the 2011-2012 Leaf, as the most current the inlet will ever see is well below 20 amps. But on other EV's, and possibly the upcoming 2013 Leaf, this can be cheap insurance. The Inlet on the Leaf is over $400, and much more on some other EV's! In addition, it's conceivable that a thermal fault at the J1772 connection could lead to a fire.

DANGER! WARNING! CAUTION! DO NOT attempt this modification unless you are a fully qualified engineer with years of experience! It will most definitely void your warranty, could damage your car, cause the end of the world, kill off the dinosaurs, etc.

Here's the parts list: (Links to Digikey)
1 thermostat - 158 degree
1 resistor - 330 ohm 1 or 2 watt - 5%
1 roll 3M orange electrical tape
3 inches (min) 1/4" Heat Shrink with Adhesive

If you are performing this mod on another car, you may wish to get 2 thermostats and wire them in series, and some adhesive-lined heat shrink to encase them, each with one AC wire to the tab. After some testing with hot parts, I found a more elegant way, at least on the Rav4, we can implement this with only 1 thermostat.

Be VERY CAREFUL not to scratch the paint on the car! I recommend you tape some cardboard around the area with liberal use of masking tape to protect the finish. (Ask me how I know!)

1. Remove the four 10mm bolts from the Inlet, and the two shown here in the wheel well:

2. Unsnap the 2 connectors and the 4 black ziptie cable clamps from the orange plastic. I found this easiest with a butterknife pushed under the little base.

3. Carefully remove all this orange tape from the cabling and the orange plastic wire loom about 4 inches down. Unsnap the orange contact retention basket from the back of the inlet. There are 3 tangs that must be released, which I used a small flat-blade on.

4. Note where all the wires go, then remove the retention basket from them. Drill 2 tiny holes (not much larger than the wire used on the thermostat) in the TOP of the basket. Be VERY CAREFUL not to damage the basket or the pins. Another method (maybe for another EV) would be to use 2 thermostats heatshrink a thermostat to each of the AC wires, tab against the wire, as close to the back of the inlet as possible. (AC wires are usually the 2 heavy Orange ones)

5. Slide the thermostat into the BACK of the inlet as shown, making sure the tab side is toward the center of the inlet. It won't go in as far if you have it upside down. Put the wires back into the basket and feed the 2 thermostat wires into the small holes you drilled. Re-attach the basket, taking care not to pinch the thermostat wires. It takes 5 hands.

6. Cut the 2 small red wires leaving enough to splice. This is the proximity line. It's the wire(s) connected to the small pin on the lower right if viewing the front of the inlet. Slide a piece of 1/4" heat shrink down over the red wires. Be sure to use enough to fully cover the resistor and splices. Insert the 330 ohm resistor and connect the thermostat across it as shown. If you are using 2 thermostats for another EV, then connect them in series, then across the resistor. Be sure all the wires are well wrapped and then solder all the connections.

7. Now, I decided I should test the setup. (You can skip this test if you want) I unsnapped the basket again and then connected a multimeter (set to ohms) across the resistor and used my heat gun on low to heat the thermostat until it opened and then a little longer. I then quickly re-assembled the basket and temporarily connected an EVSE to the inlet. After waiting for what seemed forever, the thermostat finally cooled off and it started charging. SUCCESS! I then disconnected everything and slid the heatshrink over the resistor and it's soldered connections. Use a heat gun or other heat source (be careful!) to fully shrink the heat-shrink and melt it's adhesive sealant payload. Should look something like like the picture below. Now, if you didn't perform the first test, temporarily connect an EVSE to the inlet and verify it's charging properly.

8. Thoroughly re-tape the wiring and orange plastic wire loom. Use the orange 3M tape. (Don't use black like I did)

9. Re-assemble everything, clean all the mess up. Pat yourself on the back with one of those 5 hands! :lol:

You can sleep soundly knowing your EV will never have an overheated inlet problem. If the temperature gets too high, it will simply suspend charging until it's cool. If you ever notice charging taking longer than usual, feel for excessive heat or check it with an IR thermometer.

-Phil

 

[surfingslovak]

OK, now we are in trouble.

 

[mwalsh]

Nice instruction set, Phil! I'd like to see the same kind of thing when you get to doing a LEAF, if that's not a huge imposition?

 

[tomsax]

I've done a fair amount of Roadster charging at 30A from J1772 stations and have never had a problem. I use a homemade J1772-to-Roadster adapter that uses a cheap J inlet that Cathy and I soldered ourselves. The right way to do this is with industrial crimping tools, something we didn't have available when we built our prototype adapter in 2010.

http://www.saxton.org/tom_saxton/2010/09/j1772-roadster-charging.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

For overnight charging on a road trip, I typically do a "standard mode" charge to 87% overnight, then kick off a full range mode charge two hours before we're ready to leave. That sets us up to leave with a maximum charge. If the timing is right, I'll just do a full range mode in one session. In the first case, there's usually a few hours between when the first charge ends and the second starts.

I've done two big Roadster charges at a Blink station at the Portland Crown Plaza: 42 kWh and 33+8 kWh. Likewise at the AeroVironment station in Wolf Creek, OR: 23+8 kWh. At a ChargePoint station at the Four Points Sheraton in Emeryville, CA we did 15.3 kWh from 120V, then over about 30 hours in three sessions we did 12.7+24.5+9 kWh from the J1772 port.

We've done several more sessions around 10 kWh at various Blink and ChargePoint stations.

I've never had a problem with the J1772 connector getting hot. Obviously, I don't have a ton of data points since most of our charging has been from either Tesla charging stations or NEMA 14-50 outlets using a mobile connector.

 

[MikeD]

I don't have any exciting new information with my talk today with Brenda of Nissan EV After Sales support concerning the Rav4/Blink incident, but I said I would report back -- so here goes: She said she had a Technical Support person review my initial Nov 29, 2012 on-line chat -- which follows:

{You have been connected to Jocelyn.
Jocelyn: Thank you for contacting Nissan LEAF Customer Support, my name is Jocelyn. How may I help you today Mike?
Mike: As a 2011 Leaf owner, I have a friend that leans to buying either a 2012 or 2013 Leaf. Since the 2013 Leaf has a 6.6kW on-board charger, he had a question as to whether the J1772 inlet monitors its connection for excessive heat so that the car can disconnect and protect the inlet from thermal damage. Can you say anything about whether any Leaf model checks its Level 2 connection for such a bad connection?
Mike: One other question: can you say what the expected three 2013 trim lines are referred to? SL, SV, and ??
Jocelyn: The charger in vehicle and the Aerovironment charging stations are all equipped to protect from thermal damage.
Jocelyn: Please forgive my delays. I am on 2 chats and one call.
Mike: I am in no hurry...
Jocelyn: Thank you Mike.
Jocelyn: We do not have any information [probably responding to my 2nd request] we are able to provide our customers right now. You can look up information on the web though. Just pull up 2013 Nissan LEAF.
Mike: So you have no information on thermal protection for the plugin inlet CONNECTOR itself, just the separate charger and Aero. EVSE?
Jocelyn: Thank you for being patient Mike. I now have you only on chat and was able to close out the call.
Jocelyn: I will transfer your chat to LEAF After sales if you'd like.
Mike: Yes, I did not know that you had such a service -- is it new?
Jocelyn: We sure do! No. We have always had a LEAF aftersales department. One moment and I will transfer you to them now.
Jocelyn has left the session.
Please wait while we find an agent from the EV After Sales department to assist you.
You have been connected to Brenda.
Mike: Thanks, Jocelyn!
Brenda: Hello Mike! please give me a moment to review the notes in the chat.
Mike: This question arises because a recent Toyota RAV4 EV buyer damaged his car's 6.6kW [CORRECTION: it is ~10kW] Level 2 inlet connector (it partially melted) when connected to his Ecotality Blink charging station...
Brenda: At this time I have no official information on the 2013 LEAF. Home charging docks were installed with the forethought that there may be improvement to the battery on the LEAF but because we have not been released this information I cannot advise on how the connections will be buffered or the trim levels that will be available.
Mike: Apparently his car does not check for a high resistance connection in any way that prevented inlet damage.
Mike: OK, I can understand the lack of 2013 info, but what can you say can the earlier model LEAFs?
Brenda: Earlier model LEAFS can only accept 3.3 kwh maximum and they have been designed to function with the J1772 outlet connection as long as it is properly grounded and nothing else is functioning on that circuit.
Mike: If they have specific thermal inlet protection, I'm sure the 2013 models will also...
Brenda: If you give me a moment I can contact technical support for you. However, because there is no official release of information on the 2013 model they may not be able to comment on your question. Please give me just a moment.
Mike: If the Level 2 connectors overheat (common possibility with bad or dirty contacts), is there car circuitry that will terminate the charging session to protect the inlet from thermal damage? Thanks! I care about earlier models also, but it is much more important with the 2013 model because of the higher power level.
Brenda: Technical support would like me to copy our chat into an e-mail and send to them so they can get you some proper answer. Would it be ok for me to create a case for you and follow-up with you on Monday of next week?
Mike: Yes, that would be fine with me.}

and gave her a response to my questions.

My recollection is that Brenda said to me about that response (my words)
1) that that sort of 2013 Leaf information that I was asking about had not been released yet (and After Sales Support had not been told when that release date would be).
2) that Technical Support had reviewed my chat text and although they did not have the specifics of that charging incident (like Toyota has now presumably) they said they have confidence in the Leaf's design and the Blink EVSE (as long as it was installed by a professional electrician) to properly and safely charge.
3) that I could call back (1-877-664-2738, option 1 English, option 5 After Sales) after the 2013 Leaf official data release, and get more information.

She never gave any indication of heightened concern about the incident or asked for any more details I might have access to about the incident.

When data is released I will ask again if there is any 2013 inlet thermal protection, and if so how it functions.

Bottom line, IMHO because Nissan appears to have invested the most in EVs and has the most to lose, both in past investments and future profits, I have to think they are on top of SAFE charging (which is not to say problem-free charging) in all the areas under their control (which BTW apparently includes AeroVironment much more than Ecotality). We have all heard of some minor issues with on-board Leaf chargers, and minor issues with EVSEs plugged into Leafs, but so far as I can recall, none in these same areas that involved serious injury or damage (which otherwise would likely be heavily publicized). Note Nissan has little or perhaps no leverage with Toyota (and its Rav4 EV) concerning its EV decisions. Tesla clearly has some influence over Toyota, since Rav4's EV powertrain reportedly came largely from them. Apparently we are entering something of Beta vs VHS competition(s) in regard to charging standards. Hopefully you're not still reading this..., go home!

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't have any exciting new information...
Brenda: Earlier model LEAFS can only accept 3.3 kwh maximum and they have been designed to function with the J1772 outlet connection as long as it is properly grounded and nothing else is functioning on that circuit.

.... they said they have confidence in the Leaf's design and the Blink EVSE (as long as it was installed by a professional electrician) to properly and safely charge.

.... Apparently we are entering something of Beta vs VHS competition(s) in regard to charging standards. Hopefully you're not still reading this..., go home!

So, they said what I thought they would say. All is well. But, maybe my Blink installers were not "professional" enough?

Here's my original post in reply to your contacting Nissan about this:

I seriously doubt you'll get anything more than a strict party line of "all is well, we have done oodles of testing, car is warranteed, thanks for calling, buh-bye."

There is not a "Beta vs VHS" competition with J1772-2009. Quite the opposite; that standard seems to be widely accepted.

 

[surfingslovak]

Mike, good on you to contact CS. It certainly won't hurt that they have your inquiry on record now. I could be wrong, but I'm under the impression that 877 NO GAS EV and online chat were operated by a 3rd party vendor on Nissan's behalf, and most, if not all of the agents, were located in Colorado. That's not to take away from them or the quality of their work. I'm only mentioning it to provide additional context, and it might be a good idea to confirm that in a future call.

If this were true, it should not be surprising to hear that they won't speculate about future products, their specs and release dates. It should also be clear that the agents will follow their client's guidelines to the letter, I would expect nothing else. Even if they were aware of some information about Toyota, Ford or some other EV manufacturer, it won't be shared, because these OEMs could be another current or future customer. In the light of this, I think your inquiry was handled as it should have, and as anticipated.

Bottom line, IMHO because Nissan appears to have invested the most in EVs and has the most to lose, both in past investments and future profits, I have to think they are on top of SAFE charging (which is not to say problem-free charging) in all the areas under their control (which BTW apparently includes AeroVironment much more than Ecotality). We have all heard of some minor issues with on-board Leaf chargers, and minor issues with EVSEs plugged into Leafs, but so far as I can recall, none in these same areas that involved serious injury or damage (which otherwise would likely be heavily publicized). Note Nissan has little or perhaps no leverage with Toyota (and its Rav4 EV) concerning its EV decisions. Tesla clearly has some influence over Toyota, since Rav4's EV powertrain reportedly came largely from them. Apparently we are entering something of Beta vs VHS competition(s) in regard to charging standards.

Mike, I know you mean well, but with all due respect, I have hard time taking you seriously after reading this.

 

[Deleted member 3147]

qwk: You wrote: "The only thing left to further prove that Blink is junk is a house or EV burning down.". Believe it or not the risk of substantial damage is what I'm trying to avoid by insisting on further credible evidence, especially of does there seem to be a much wider problem? We really have no idea and I see no apparent effort to research it. Can you imagine the damage that would do to EV acceptance if EV charging caused a house to burn down due to a widespread EVSE defect? A good question to be discussed in the first place, however, is how likely is that to happen due to an overheated connection due to a poor connection? I don't expect it is likely at all with a Leaf (especially if the 2013 model protects for that), but my thoughts aren't backed up very well by relevant NEC/UL knowledge. It is reasonable to wonder what action Toyota is taking in regards to this incident.

There is credible evidence that Pacific Electric and Zinsco breaker boxes will fail to trip a breaker when a circuit is overloaded about 80% of the time. Guess what? There are tens of thousands of homes out there that still use these defective panels. They may work, but your chances of fire go substantially up. This is why most insurance companies will not insure a home with one of these panels.

Some people learn from others mistakes, some have to learn by making their own mistake...

While you are quite correct that some old brands of breakers often fail, this is not relevant to this discussion. The poor crimp that Phil detected and *may* have been Tony's problem would have generated enough heat to melt the plastic and possibly start a fire, without drawing additional current! It doesn't matter if the breaker box had a perfectly operating breaker or a dead-shorted breaker, the problem would still have occurred.

This is one reason to be careful while building an OpenEVSE, especially one for higher currents. If you fail to properly tighten down a connection on the 240V wires, either on the inlet cord or the J1772 cord, you could develop enough resistance down the road to burn up the box and no circuit breaker of fuse will protect you!

 

[Stoaty]

She never gave any indication of heightened concern about the incident or asked for any more details I might have access to about the incident.

I don't think you can expect that level of attention from CS. A number of months ago I had a concern about the fact that the Leaf can shift into neutral while it is still plugged in (happened to me a couple of times and I rolled back an almost yanked the charging cord). I reported this to CS, they told me not to do that, didn't seem concerned. A bit later I found that the issue had already been quietly corrected in a software update that I hadn't bothered to get (you know, the kind where they don't really tell you exactly what they fixed).

 

[surfingslovak]

It looks like this thread has found some new fans. I have to say, that by my estimation this discussion has been far more effective than a CS call could ever have been. As disappointing or unexpected as it may sound to some.

 

[TonyWilliams]

It looks like this thread has found some new fans. I have to say, that by my estimation this discussion has been far more effective than a CS call could ever have been. As disappointing or unexpected as it may sound to some.

I think the industry folks realize that these things should have been designed to effectively NEVER burn out, even with marginal quality players like Ecotality, and that burning down houses and possibly killing people (my daughter's bedroom is directly above where the Rav4 parks in the garage) will bring a hail storm of bad press (which might affect government handouts that this whole industry relies).

I think it is wise for all of us to consider that these high electric load appliances (the EVs) that are attached to our homes can cause fire. At a minimum, a smoke detector directly above the charging car, that can be linked to other detectors in the house (so you can hear them when you're sleeping).

Phil's modification is simple and should have been the standard long before today.

Also, I'm considering a CO2 discharge bottle for the garage. One issue that I can think of here is natural gas hot water heaters in the garage, which might have their flames extinguished by CO2 and actually add more fuel in the garage.

I plan to have electric cars a long time, and batteries do blow up (check out the YouTube video of the Pikes Peak race when one started burning), electrical connections can arc and burn, components can fry, etc, and these bad things are all likely while you're sleeping.

 

[LEAFer]

Interestingly enough ... several years ago (2008) when Tesla first announced Roadster deliveries and prepped customers for home installation of their HPC (High Power Connector, 240V, up to 70A) it was a Tesla-controlled design which included a smoke detector. Quite a few Roadster owners received this unit. For various reasons, however, after the first 150 or so, Tesla switched to the Clipper Creek sourced TS-70 (essentially a "throttled" CS-100 with a proprietary connector rather than J1772) which does *NOT* include a smoke detector.

Hmmm ....

 

[davewill]

...Also, I'm considering a CO2 discharge bottle for the garage. One issue that I can think of here is natural gas hot water heaters in the garage, which might have their flames extinguished by CO2 and actually add more fuel in the garage. ...

I thought that modern gas water heaters either used electric ignitors, and/or had a thermostat to detect failure of the pilot light or the burner flame.

 

[Ingineer]

I don't see much threat from the modern EV's. Most all have hermetic steel battery cases (volt excepted), so a battery fire is unlikely.

However, the J1772 port is another matter. My solution for that I think makes it safe enough.

Tony, I would think a linked smoke detector is good enough. If you bother putting in a fire suppression system, for only a few bucks more, add a solenoid activated gas valve to cut the gas to your house (or just the garage).

I have no worries about the Leaf.

-Phil

 

[qwk]

Interestingly enough ... several years ago (2008) when Tesla first announced Roadster deliveries and prepped customers for home installation of their HPC (High Power Connector, 240V, up to 70A) it was a Tesla-controlled design which included a smoke detector. Quite a few Roadster owners received this unit. For various reasons, however, after the first 150 or so, Tesla switched to the Clipper Creek sourced TS-70 (essentially a "throttled" CS-100 with a proprietary connector rather than J1772) which does *NOT* include a smoke detector.

Hmmm ....

I forgot about this. This just shows how far ahead Tesla's technology is ahead of the "reluctant to go to EV's mainstream manufacturers". The way Tesla has been cranking out cars lately, J1772 might not have the first mover advantage like everyone thinks they have. Especially if fire of the connectors is involved. The Fire fiascos of the Volt and Karma really hurt those cars sales and perception.

 

[Ingineer]

I forgot about this. This just shows how far ahead Tesla's technology is ahead of the "reluctant to go to EV's mainstream manufacturers". The way Tesla has been cranking out cars lately, J1772 might not have the first mover advantage like everyone thinks they have. Especially if fire of the connectors is involved. The Fire fiascos of the Volt and Karma really hurt those cars sales and perception.

I think J1772 is sound as-is for 20A or less, (Leaf) and with the addition of a simple/cheap circuit as I've shown, I believe it's good up to 40A. Not so sure I trust it for much over that. It might be fine initially at 70A, but after the handles are well worn, probably not. Though it's showing that the most common public station is ~30A, with a small percentage at 40A. It's rare to find a 70A.

CHAdeMO/SAE Combo will easily take the >10kW stuff, so why bother with 70A AC?

-Phil

 

[MikeD]

Ingineer: "I think J1772 is sound as-is for 20A or less, (Leaf) and with the addition of a simple/cheap circuit as I've shown, I believe it's good up to 40A. Not so sure I trust it for much over that. It might be fine initially at 70A, but after the handles are well worn, probably not.". I see 3 different amperage operating zones that you are commenting on. Although I am not necessarily saying you are wrong, can I ask what is the basis for your distinguishing these three zones?

 

[Ingineer]

I see 3 different amperage operating zones that you are commenting on. Although I am not necessarily saying you are wrong, can I ask what is the basis for your distinguishing these three zones?

Experience.

-Phil

 

[MikeD]

Ingineer: On Nov 27 you wrote

"All connectors are prone to damage and wear out. Personally, I don't think the J1772 connector is a good enough design for high-utilization at high currents (much over 30A)."

and later on that same day

"It's too bad the J1772 pins were designed so thinly. They are about the same cross-section as a #12 AWG wire (3.6mm), which nobody would not consider sending 70 Amps though, let alone 30, but someone decided it was ok."

I'm not sure I see that these two statements are consistent with each other, let alone with your above

"I think J1772 is sound as-is for 20A or less, (Leaf) and with the addition of a simple/cheap circuit as I've shown, I believe it's good up to 40A. Not so sure I trust it for much over that. It might be fine initially at 70A, but after the handles are well worn, probably not."

I'm not sure that referring to your experience clarifies all of this to me. But I admit at my age I get confused much more easily now, so if you don't mind filling in some details on this matter I truly would appreciate it.