Battery Replacement Program Details

[DaveinOlyWA]

finally, I try to make it obvious when I am stating my own thoughts and will try to kick that up a notch

Thanks, Dave, I think that would be much appreciated. At least I know that I would value such approach. To sum up your post above: you are subject to an NDA. Nissan has not confirmed that they were working on a new chemistry, and you could not tell if they were. The timeline of the market introduction of any new technology has not been communicated, and aside from your own interpretation, you don't know why Nissan has chosen to offer a battery rental program only at this time. Is this fair to say or did I miss anything?

they are working on a better chemistry and the ASE guy pretty much stated that is an ongoing process. they know they don't have an "end" product. Now after Phoenix, the focus maybe redirected.

As far as the rental program, they stated in the announcement that a large part of the decision was based on customer feedback and survey results along with the expected rapid advances these batteries will undergo making a purchase which is essentially a frozen moment in "technology time" not in the best interests of the owner which would lead to frustration farther down the line. A lease, especially one that can be entered at any time allows one to get the best technology available. Remember to enter the lease, you can do it with 5 bars or 12.

quoted from page 1

Nissan conducted a global survey of LEAF owners and prospective electric vehicle customers and reviewed publicly available industry data to help shape the replacement proposal. Owners and prospective owners voiced a preference for a monthly payment program, and that they wanted assurances that the battery will maintain its capacity at a certain level.

I am one of those who selected that option but I was in the "$50 a month" camp...

 

[klapauzius]

Nissan conducted a global survey of LEAF owners and prospective electric vehicle customers and reviewed publicly available industry data to help shape the replacement proposal. Owners and prospective owners voiced a preference for a monthly payment program, and that they wanted assurances that the battery will maintain its capacity at a certain level.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13356" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That poll of course is just a very small sample size. Could it be that the global Leaf community is very different than the one on this forum?

Frankly, I don't believe any of this, as this current program they came up with is obviously flawed. Or maybe it was assumed by most people who took the poll, that buying a battery would be an alternative.

But then, the ruling party in North Korea also gets 99.9% of the vote every time they hold an election. :twisted:

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Nissan conducted a global survey of LEAF owners and prospective electric vehicle customers and reviewed publicly available industry data to help shape the replacement proposal. Owners and prospective owners voiced a preference for a monthly payment program, and that they wanted assurances that the battery will maintain its capacity at a certain level.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=13356" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That poll of course is just a very small sample size. Could it be that the global Leaf community is very different than the one on this forum?

Frankly, I don't believe any of this, as this current program they came up with is obviously flawed. Or maybe it was assumed by most people who took the poll, that buying a battery would be an alternative.

But then, the ruling party in North Korea also gets 99.9% of the vote every time they hold an election. :twisted:

like any survey, you are limited by responses chosen by someone else so, ya I would have answered differently in several different questions but mostly it was "take the lesser of several evils"

also keep in mind; this was the survey that only allowed you to answer the battery part if you intended to buy your LEAF so many did not even get to provide a response.

 

[smkettner]

As far as the rental program, they stated in the announcement that a large part of the decision was based on customer feedback and survey results along with the expected rapid advances these batteries will undergo making a purchase which is essentially a frozen moment in "technology time" not in the best interests of the owner which would lead to frustration farther down the line. A lease, especially one that can be entered at any time allows one to get the best technology available. Remember to enter the lease, you can do it with 5 bars or 12.

quoted from page 1

Nissan conducted a global survey of LEAF owners and prospective electric vehicle customers and reviewed publicly available industry data to help shape the replacement proposal. Owners and prospective owners voiced a preference for a monthly payment program, and that they wanted assurances that the battery will maintain its capacity at a certain level.

I am one of those who selected that option but I was in the "$50 a month" camp...

OK then why allow the initial LEAF to be purchased at all?
As if converting the vehicle we own into a lease will make it all better?
I say give us a purchase and lease price on a battery, same as the vehicle, and let us decide.
Otherwise offer to buy all of us back at three years as if we leased from the get go. But then there is the mileage thing for those of us that bought partially because we put more miles on than a lease allows. Would the leased battery have an annual miles limit?
Battery lease promises upgraded technology when available but not a new battery each time. That is a bit counter intuitive IMO.

 

[surfingslovak]

they are working on a better chemistry and the ASE guy pretty much stated that is an ongoing process. they know they don't have an "end" product. Now after Phoenix, the focus maybe redirected.

Thanks for responding. I think it's fair to say that everybody in the industry is working on a new chemistry. While it's good to have some confirmation on that, this is not exactly a revelation. I think I might have heard much more specific information about what's in store for 2015 Volt than for the 2015 LEAF, and I'm not even that involved in the Volt community. Just to be clear, the Phoenix comment is your interpretation again, and not something you have heard from someone at Nissan?

Nissan conducted a global survey of LEAF owners and prospective electric vehicle customers and reviewed publicly available industry data to help shape the replacement proposal. Owners and prospective owners voiced a preference for a monthly payment program, and that they wanted assurances that the battery will maintain its capacity at a certain level.

Yes, of course, I remember that survey also, and have read the original announcement. That said, nowhere in the survey there was talk about offering a lease deal only and forgoing outright sales. I think that's what seems to have taken a number of folks by surprise. Also, the mileage tiers for the lease have not been specified. That makes it impossible to calculate the operational cost of the vehicle, which was one of the asks from owners.

 

[myleaf]

Hi Brian, Not sure if you ever monitor this website. But if you do, it would be nice to get answers to the posted questions or more general info on how Nissan is addressing the rapid degradation of the batteries in hot climates. This would be better that members trying to pry information from the LEAF Advisory Board members.

 

[mwalsh]

Otherwise offer to buy all of us back at three years as if we leased from the get go.

+1.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Otherwise offer to buy all of us back at three years as if we leased from the get go.

+1.

ya, would be nice but how would you feel if your employer came to you and said "about that bonus you got 3 years ago..."

granted not as simple as that but there is a HUGE difference between "fixing" and "returning"

 

[thankyouOB]

As far as the rental program, they stated in the announcement that a large part of the decision was based on customer feedback and survey results along with the expected rapid advances these batteries will undergo making a purchase which is essentially a frozen moment in "technology time" not in the best interests of the owner which would lead to frustration farther down the line. A lease, especially one that can be entered at any time allows one to get the best technology available. Remember to enter the lease, you can do it with 5 bars or 12.

How does this make any sense at all in terms of distinguishing between buying or leasing a new battery?
you ALSO are making the buying decision on a replacement battery at a specific time of your choosing. Under the lease program, once you engage in the lease, you -- like the battery buyer -- are stuck with that technology from a fixed moment in time.
there is NO second turn in the nissan battery program.

the TPs are getting weaker and departing more and more from any logical decision tree.

 

[thankyouOB]

dont worry weatherman, nissan pr top dogs promised us a full Q&A addressing all our issues. You can read about it earlier in this thread; long about three days after most everyone wrote at length either upset or totally confused by their original posting.

they also promised a battery price by summer.
but that was last February. maybe summer is different where they live.

 

[dsh]

 

[ERG4ALL]

I don't know how Nissan conducted their survey but the proper way would have been to take a preliminary survey of properly constructed questions. Then they could calculate the standard deviation about the mean for each question. From that the sample size can be derived based on what sigma level they wanted (i.e. I sigma = 68% certainty, 2 = 95% and 3 = 99.7%). Of course, the more accurate the sample, the more respondents need to be polled. However, years ago in college when I was taking statistics a fact stuck in my head that the TV rating services only used a sample size of 1,200 to identify the viewing choices of the entire nation. I don't remember what sigma level they used, but I'm sure it was at least 2 sigma because millions of dollars of ad revenue hung in the balance of those ratings. So the question to Nissan becomes, what level of certainty did they build their polling of persons?

 

[nrgrevolution]

First, I'd like to commend Nissan for providing a warranty on battery capacity to 5yr/60k. Thank you very much!

But, the battery replacement program seems riddled with problems.

1. If one signs up, runs into financial hardship (loss of job) can't afford to pay the $100 a month, does Nissan confiscate the entire battery pack out of the car?
2. I can't imagine trying to sell the car once signed up, trying to answer all these questions to an interested buyer? you must pay $100/month to Nissan or #1 will happen?

When someone makes an all important decision to purchase (not lease) a new car, they fully expect to be able to maintain the vehicle. This would include purchasing any parts from the Company that manufactured the vehicle. I'm sorry, but I can not accept NOT being able to pay a one time price to repair the vehicle. I simply can't believe this option is being left out?

I suggest:

1. Nissan provide fair cost of repair and or replacement of the battery pack. Updated annually based on its cost.
2. An extended warranty of the 5yr/60 month one provided by Nissan for a ONE TIME cost / per time period. IE: 3yr/36K (more miles) or 5yr/60k with the same atleast 9 bar standard. Maybe other options for 10 and 11 bars also.

I hope Nissan is listening to this, I'd like to here other OWNERS comments to this also.

 

[WhiteBearLake]

Big thread here. I read about 15 of the 66 pages of comments.

A few comments:

1. I took the survey. What I looked for was a question similar to: What would you pay to get a battery of higher capacity (more driving range)? There were no questions in the survey regarding larger capacity batteries.

2. If my Leaf drops to 10 bars, it is useless in a Minnesota winter. It will no longer be able to make my daily 45 mile round trip to work on days when temps are below zero.

3. Looking back... I made a great choice to lease. All of these battery questions, decisions, options, issues go away at the end of my 39 lease. The risk that I took by leasing a 2012 Leaf is how much the capacity might drop prior to the conclusion of the lease. It's been 11 months now. I have 15,000 miles and still have 12 bars.

4. I have been so pleased with my Leaf that my wife and I have been discussing leasing a 2nd Leaf this fall to replace a rather old ICE vehicle. I must admit this sometimes heated discussion is causing me to wonder if I should go for a used high mileage ICE vehicle instead. I have been left with the impression that higher range Leafs are just around the corner. Perhaps it would be best to wait for those higher range Leafs to become available.

5. FYI, I leased my Leaf SL for $300.85/month, 15K miles per year, nothing down (not even tax, title, license). It seems to me that I should be able to repeat that lease deal again because MSRP has dropped a bit. To go for another Leaf, all I need now is confidence in the battery.

 

[Nubo]

So where is Brian?

Or is Nissan going to turtle-up for another 6 months?

 

[thankyouOB]

So where is Brian?

Or is Nissan going to turtle-up for another 6 months?

Brian turned up the other day to taunt us about battery replacement, saying dont worry he knows he owes us answers and an update; and saying "until then"* let me tell you about this shiny object.
whereupon he moved onto the QC charging roll out.


*Honestly, he really did that, without a hint about when he would return with information about a battery price.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13522" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[thankyouOB]

can brian let us know when the promised Q&A will surface, please.

 

[mwalsh]

I took the survey. What I looked for was a question similar to: What would you pay to get a battery of higher capacity (more driving range)? There were no questions in the survey regarding larger capacity batteries.

I also took the survey. I don't remember them asking ANY questions about purchasing batteries at all. Just leasing.

I'm going to start saving all the questions I'm asked in any further survey, so I can go back and remind myself of exactly what went down.

 

[smkettner]

$12,000+ or $100 per month goes a long way toward my Tesla

 

[BBrockman]

can brian let us know when the promised Q&A will surface, please.

TYOB: I haven't forgotten that, nor am I trying to ignore it. I hope to have better details than the ones I've already shared. I understand the frustration that is being expressed by some of you on the forum, and I apologize that I've taken this long to respond to your concerns.