Battery Replacement Program Details

[JPWhite]

You continue with the cheering and denial of a fundamental fact: Nissan changed the terms of the sale when they refused to offer for sale the key and most expensive part for the car.
this was bait and switch at best, and the terms to get it replaced are at best, permanent usury, and that plus theft, at worst.

At the test drive I went to prior to the launch of the vehicle, Nissan were very coy when asked the price of a replacement battery. They have, if nothing else, been consistent in their refusal to offer a price. I went in knowing the replacement cost was 'unknown' so I don't see how that is bait and switch or a change of terms. If you have a piece of paper from Nissan stating you could expect a price, share that with us.

 

[thankyouOB]

first, every part has a price. every part must be available as a replacement part for the car.

second, selling the car to the public with the battery included implies there is a price.

third, nissan told us they would give us a price for the part.

you can argue all you want from your fan-tastic point of view, but the fact remains: many owners are disappointed and feel abused. some go so far as to feel they were lied to, and these are otherwise happy owners.

all your nuanced language and challenges does not and will not change that.
nissan needs to try out: we are sorry.

 

[klapauzius]

I wonder what happens if one were to ask right now for a replacement battery, e.g. because the car cannot make the original commute, after maybe loosing one or two bars?

Assume this would be no warranty replacement, just normal wear and tear and now the car does not serve its intended role and the worn out part needs to be replaced. Curious, if Nissan will tell people to sell the car and get a new one?

I can imagine that a few people might be in that situation, or if not now, maybe within the next year.

 

[cwerdna]

Nissan rob the 2011 & 2012 resale values down the tub. Thanks for nothing to early supporter.
...
Nissan big disappointment to early adopter and now screw them over by stealing their battery pack and not supporting resale values!

if u want to keep your battery and not enter the battery replacement program, its easy. don't do it, sell the car when it no longer meets your needs.

theft only occurs when they take the battery without your knowledge. I belive long term resale values will hold up. the drop in current resale value is in part due to uncertainty as to when and how much a battery replacement will be needed. the program removes uncertainty which should help shore up resale values.

I also agree w/JPWhite's view of "theft" and not using the battery replacement program.

It's not Nissan's job to prop up resale values but at the same time, I do believe that the resale value of a Leaf outside the 5 year/60K capacity warranty will be affected negatively by this battery lease program (and lack of battery price). I also believe that the resale value of used Leaf w/a $100/month battery lease/rental obligation will be very poor. It might have some demand if someone lives in a hot climate (e.g. Phoenix) and can live w/a 9 capacity bar Leaf.

Low resale values == higher cost of ownership, which could drive some people away from the Leaf.

 

[RegGuheert]

I wonder what happens if one were to ask right now for a replacement battery, e.g. because the car cannot make the original commute, after maybe loosing one or two bars?

Assume this would be no warranty replacement, just normal wear and tear and now the car does not serve its intended role and the worn out part needs to be replaced. Curious, if Nissan will tell people to sell the car and get a new one?

I can imagine that a few people might be in that situation, or if not now, maybe within the next year.

TaylorSFGuy IS in that situation and asked Nissan if he could buy a battery. They basically told him, "No!"

 

[klapauzius]

I wonder what happens if one were to ask right now for a replacement battery, e.g. because the car cannot make the original commute, after maybe loosing one or two bars?

Assume this would be no warranty replacement, just normal wear and tear and now the car does not serve its intended role and the worn out part needs to be replaced. Curious, if Nissan will tell people to sell the car and get a new one?

I can imagine that a few people might be in that situation, or if not now, maybe within the next year.

TaylorSFGuy IS in that situation and asked Nissan if he could buy a battery. They basically told him, "No!"

Yes, I know. But is that the end of the story? Someone asked nicely and they say "no".

I recall that in Arizona they also said all was normal and then it wasnt. One could still argue that only a small number of Leafs were affected by this problem, but the current issue will basically affect everyone that bought the car.

I am curious also, what the legal ramifications are. Can they say "no" to a request for a new battery outside the warranty?

Say, I wanted to buy a new engine for my ICE car.

I have been in that situation, and of course here you would simply buy a used one, as the cost of a brand new one would usually not make any sense financially.

But suppose, I went to my brand X dealer and asked him for a brand new engine for my 2011 ICE X model Y, would they give me a quote and eventually sell me one?

 

[thankyouOB]

Low resale values == higher cost of ownership, which could drive some people away from the Leaf.

so it IS nissan's job.

 

[smkettner]

http://fordracingparts123.com/crate-engines/
http://store.chevroletperformance.c...prodsFound=3&redir=true&category=Small Blocks

 

[KJD]

If Nissan had ever told me that they would NOT sell replacement parts for this car I would have never bought the car in the first place.

Please name one other major OEM car maker that does not sell replacement parts for wearable items on that car.

 

[klapauzius]

http://fordracingparts123.com/crate-engines/
http://store.chevroletperformance.c...prodsFound=3&redir=true&category=Small Blocks

Now all we need is something similar for automotive batteries. . .

 

[thankyouOB]

If Nissan had ever told me that they would NOT sell replacement parts for this car I would have never bought the car in the first place.

Please name one other major OEM car maker that does not sell replacement parts for wearable items on that car.

yes, while at the same time nissan told us the battery would degrade and lose range as it ages.
but they forgot to tell the buyers that they had NO intention of offering a sale price for replacement of that part.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

http://fordracingparts123.com/crate-engines/
http://store.chevroletperformance.c...prodsFound=3&redir=true&category=Small Blocks

so Ford sells parts from the factory but GM allows a dealer markup? that pushes the Volt one notch farther down the list

as far as this discussion goes. One can choose to decide that the very limited info we have received on this pending program is the final word on battery replacement options FOREVER, or we can choose another line of thinking

 

[klapauzius]

http://fordracingparts123.com/crate-engines/
http://store.chevroletperformance.c...prodsFound=3&redir=true&category=Small Blocks

O
so Ford sells parts from the factory but GM allows a dealer markup? that pushes the Volt one notch farther down the list

as far as this discussion goes. One can choose to decide that the very limited info we have received on this pending program is the final word on battery replacement options FOREVER, or we can choose another line of thinking

Unfortunately, at this point the "other" line of thinking is not supported by any statements from Nissan, and it is high time for them to say something.
I would love to have a less pessimistic outlook, but all we have from Nissan on this is a broken promise. Spring has come and gone and we have no replacement battery price.
We have not even a statement like "we are sorry we cant give you a price now, but we will come up with one eventually"

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

http://fordracingparts123.com/crate-engines/
http://store.chevroletperformance.c...prodsFound=3&redir=true&category=Small Blocks

O
so Ford sells parts from the factory but GM allows a dealer markup? that pushes the Volt one notch farther down the list

as far as this discussion goes. One can choose to decide that the very limited info we have received on this pending program is the final word on battery replacement options FOREVER, or we can choose another line of thinking

Unfortunately, at this point the "other" line of thinking is not supported by any statements from Nissan, and it is high time for them to say something.
I would love to have a less pessimistic outlook, but all we have from Nissan on this is a broken promise. Spring has come and gone and we have no replacement battery price.
We have not even a statement like "we are sorry we cant give you a price now, but we will come up with one eventually"

granted; you have "a" point but the absolute statements made here are quite simply ridiculous. when have we all reverted back to being 5 years old? because that is how we are thinking and talking. we did not get our way so now its the end of the world??

we need to hold up a mirror here. this thread has gone way beyond reasonability.

 

[klapauzius]

granted; you have "a" point but the absolute statements made here are quite simply ridiculous. when have we all reverted back to being 5 years old? because that is how we are thinking and talking. we did not get our way so now its the end of the world??

we need to hold up a mirror here. this thread has gone way beyond reasonability.

Would you mind being more specific?

Which "absolute" statements are you referring to?

Nobody mentioned the end of the world.

All the anxiety here is about having sunk a considerable amount of money into something that might become effectively useless in a
few years with no reasonable option of fixing it.

Remember also the response of some to the battery degradation in Arizona.
Not being a "yes" man for Nissan, does not mean people act childish and I find it not appropriate to call people, who are rightfully concerned, that.

Given that you are on the advisory committee, supposedly to improve communication with the Leaf user community, I find this response rather troublesome.

 

[thankyouOB]

i did not recall that he was on the advisory committee.
makes me go hmmmmm. his answers had become so odd that i blocked them for a period, though i did go to his webpage and read his long explanation about the battery issue, which he posted about 10 days ago.

I promise that if nissan takes me on a trip to Japan, I will not become a yes-man on the battery issue or even one who stops asking questions after the second or third non-answer to a reasonable question about pricing the battery.
And I will not stop asking questions questions here and in every place that I can about it, until someone at nissan explains why they have decided that they will not price and sell the battery.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

as part of the advisory committee, Nissan really only asked us what we thought the general concern would be and we pretty much told them exactly what came up here.

what is the exit strategy? all leases have to have one. after all, accidents happen. life is simply not that cut and dried so there are provisions.

is there an option to pay more for a battery that guarantees 10 bars or 11 or whatever?

does the lessee have the option to convert to purchase of pack at a later date when the "right" technology is available at the "right" price?

as far as merits/drawbacks of the program? well have gone over that several times. its not a 100% solution. like any answer, there is always a better more suitable answer for specific situations that would work better.

but since we don't know any of that (including the group) we can only wait for details. but the thought that Nissan will never sell the pack ever is an absolute statement that no one can make.

if I was in Phoenix; I would never EVER consider paying big bucks for a battery very much like the one that failed me in less than 2 years so I have to say I am not sure why there is so much against the idea of leasing at a reasonable monthly cost until the right technology that is heat tolerant and maintains cycle life with high stability can be developed. This lease I "have" to look at as nothing more than a stopgap solution until the technology can get the right product that would be worth buying.

right now, lease prices are so cheap, I find it surprising that anyone would want to buy with the inevitable performance/range/reliability enhancements a few years down the road. Back when I leased, it was not so easy a decision but my lease payments are double what is available today. now, cheap leases do not address the people who bought 11's so what to do? cant sell technology you don't have.

with the very limited amount of details we have, there is no way to make a true value judgment on the lease/purchase question, so ya its easy to go negative. But I prefer the "half full" approach. I believer Nissan chose battery leasing as the least of two evils because they were trying to look out for the people who chose to be the early risk takers.

As far as negative? I am just not that kind of person and if care to go thru my public post history, you will find that I have never been negative and I can assure you a trip to Japan did not change a thing

 

[klapauzius]

as part of the advisory committee, Nissan really only asked us what we thought the general concern would be and we pretty much told them exactly what came up here.

Which you now call "childish"??? Huh?

now, cheap leases do not address the people who bought 11's so what to do? cant sell technology you don't have.

Could you please explain that sentence? What exactly do you mean by "cant sell technology you dont have"???

They sold me a car WITH a battery. Its right here in my garage. If you want to come up to Seattle, I can show you the battery that I purchased from Nissan. They could do it in 2011, why cant they do it today? Or commit to doing it sometime in the next 5 years.

Also, you do want to review the facts:

1) We have heard Andy Palmer say in public, that they did not expect to replace batteries in the Leaf
2) We also heard them say "we will give you a battery price in Spring" and they didn't
3) it has been 2 1/2 years now since they started selling the cars. They are mass producing batteries in Tennessee now. Yet they dont even commit saying "we will provide a replacement battery". Nobody cares about a price right now. But we want to know that Nissan will provide a replacement for an essential part of the car that is KNOWN to wear out.

Stop defending the fact that they refuse to sell vital replacement parts for their product.

If any manufacturer would pull this kind of stunt e.g. with a popular ICE model, this would be an outrage and law suits would follow promptly.


Sure, tomorrow they could come out and say they will sell a battery, but right now I find NOTHING that would reassure me that they will, yet I see plenty of signs, that they wont.

 

[derkraut]

as part of the advisory committee, Nissan really only asked us what we thought the general concern would be and we pretty much told them exactly what came up here.

Which you now call "childish"??? Huh?

now, cheap leases do not address the people who bought 11's so what to do? cant sell technology you don't have.

Could you please explain that sentence? What exactly do you mean by "cant sell technology you dont have"???

They sold me a car WITH a battery. Its right here in my garage. If you want to come up to Seattle, I can show you the battery that I purchased from Nissan. They could do it in 2011, why cant they do it today? Or commit to doing it sometime in the next 5 years.

Also, you do want to review the facts:

1) We have heard Andy Palmer say in public, that they did not expect to replace batteries in the Leaf
2) We also heard them say "we will give you a battery price in Spring" and they didn't
3) it has been 2 1/2 years now since they started selling the cars. They are mass producing batteries in Tennessee now. Yet they dont even commit saying "we will provide a replacement battery". Nobody cares about a price right now. But we want to know that Nissan will provide a replacement for an essential part of the car that is KNOWN to wear out.

Stop defending the fact that they refuse to sell vital replacement parts for their product.

If any manufacturer would pull this kind of stunt e.g. with a popular ICE model, this would be an outrage and law suits would follow promptly.


Sure, tomorrow they could come out and say they will sell a battery, but right now I find NOTHING that would reassure me that they will, yet I see plenty of signs, that they wont.

Geez.....What's with you guys jumping on DaveinOlyWa? I've learned a lot from his posts ever since I joined this forum. It's rather refreshing to read posts that are constructive--rather than constant whining about how Nissan has been screwing everybody. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[klapauzius]

Geez.....What's with you guys jumping on DaveinOlyWa? I've learned a lot from his posts ever since I joined this forum. It's rather refreshing to read posts that are constructive--rather than constant whining about how Nissan has been screwing everybody. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Yes, what is it with all this whining?

I am sure Nissan will do the right thing. They have done so with the heat-degradation debacle in Arizona...I am sure they addressed the owners issues there because they decided this was the right thing to do, not because people were complaining, right?

I heard nothing constructive so far, except, "this is not the last word". No problem, we can all wait a couple more years.