6600+ ft. of climbing / LEAF in the San Bernardino Mountains

[Caracalover]

Thanks for the report, I had no doubt you could make it, although I just now found this thread. Thanks also to the OP.

My mountain driving is out of the L.A. area, up the 2 or Angeles Crest Highway. Didn't sweat the details as you two had to, just drove up a few times in a few directions and then came home with the knowledge that allowed me to be confident when I drove the full route (69 miles) to Rosamond in the high desert. I mention this here since there are a lot of commuters that come from the Palmdale, Lancaster area and the freeway moves at speeds that drain power too quickly. On the way home (With A/C on all the way) from there I reached the 210 interchange with 4 bars remaining, and most destinations are still downhill from there. On the way up I had two bars remaining, went to one after a turn off turn on cycle, but no low battery warnings. Keeping the speeds mellow on the uphills and coasting to go faster I had no issues with faster cars, but did pass a few - some people don't know how to downshift it seems. This was a Sunday drive though, don't know about the commuter traffic on that route.

Coasting for me is easier by going into N, and alternating my speed reduction with D and ECO, rarely needing the brakes at all.

 

[edatoakrun]

...it makes a 2 hour trip into a 6+ hour trip...

Actually, it sounds like you could probably get to the cabin in about 4 hours (2 hours of L2) and return in about 3 hours, without even getting a "low battery" warning.

Since I got the LEAF, I've found myself doing the math of time vs ICE fuel cost and pollution, on 100 or so mile trips with minimal recharge requirements, and often find I'm not in too much of a hurry.

 

[DaveL]

...it makes a 2 hour trip into a 6+ hour trip...

Actually, it sounds like you could probably get to the cabin in about 4 hours (2 hours of L2) and return in about 3 hours, without even getting a "low battery" warning.

Since I got the LEAF, I've found myself doing the math of time vs ICE fuel cost and pollution, on 100 or so mile trips with minimal recharge requirements, and often find I'm not in too much of a hurry.

You may be right. One of these days I'll probably get curious if I can make it all the way home from the cabin on a single charge so when I drive it back I can completely skip the lunch break and charge it in Enumclaw only up to 11 bars.

However, even though the drive between Bellevue & Enumclaw is only 36 miles, there is a fair amount of hills so it takes about 5 1/2 bars to drive it. Even with my "Ingineer rev-2 modified" Nissan EVSE (which provides full L2 charging when plugged into 220V outlet) it's still going to take the better part of 3 hours to get it back up to 11 bars.

Still, you are right. 4 1/2 hours is better than 6, but not nearly as quick as the 2 hours that my wife is accustomed to!

Now if we only had a 150 mile pack..... :ugeek:

 

[edatoakrun]

Now if we only had a 150 mile pack.....

I'd much rather have fast charging, than a bigger, heavier, and more expensive battery.

Wouldn't you rather have a DC charger, anywhere on your route?

A five or ten minute charge would be all you'd need for your 100 mile drive, and fifteen or twenty minutes would get you to 150.

 

[DaveL]

Now if we only had a 150 mile pack.....

I'd much rather have fast charging, than a bigger, heavier, and more expensive battery.

Wouldn't you rather have a DC charger, anywhere on your route?

A five or ten minute charge would be all you'd need for your 100 mile drive, and fifteen or twenty minutes would get you to 150.

Yeah I would, but I doubt that there will be a L3 charger anywhere along this route in my lifetime. This is really out in the country, which is exactly why I have a cabin out here!

 

[abasile]

No doubt, these Leafs belong in the forest in the mountains!

You have my wholehearted agreement! Thank you for taking the time to post pictures and share your trip report. The Cascade Mountains seem to have received an amazing amount of snow this past season. (It's probably not a good year to hike the length of the Pacific Crest Trail if one is so inclined.) I know you'll be enjoying having the LEAF at the cabin.

 

[abasile]

Lately we've been using the LEAF for more trips off the mountain, using CA-330 between Running Springs and Highland. I will share a few observations.

- It seems that it is ideal to start the descent down 330 with no more than about 7 or 8 bars of charge. Then there seems to be no need for friction braking; the car allows enough regen to keep the speed down on the descent. On one recent occasion, I had a last-minute need to make a quick trip down the mountain and back up, and as I had charged to 80% the night before, I intentionally "wasted" a couple of bars of charge by going for a quick joyride before making the descent.

- Coming up 330 from the base of the mountain to Arrowbear seems to require roughly 6 bars of charge if one drives gently, around 35-45 mph, with the air conditioning set to 78°. (As the speed limit is 55, definitely use turnouts to allow faster traffic to pass.) One of these days, perhaps I should try flying up the mountain at 55 mph the whole way to get an idea of how much more power and energy this requires. In terms of the extra wear on the battery pack, driving fast up the mountain would probably be almost equivalent to doing a DC fast charge. So I don't intend to do that very often.

- Driving from Pasadena to Arrowbear (70 miles, 5200' net climb) is quite doable if one drives gently and stops along the way for some L2. A week ago, we left Pasadena with 11 bars of charge, drove in slow traffic on the 210 freeway, subsequently held our speed down to 50-55 mph on the 210, stopped at Fontana Nissan for a bit over 1.5 hours to bring the SOC back up to about 80%, and arrived home with fully two bars of charge (it had just dropped from three bars). We were using the AC (78°).

- PM me if you intend to drive your LEAF up to the San Bernardino Mountains and would like to stop for L2 charging. There are some nice hiking trails by our place.

 

[abasile]

Yesterday we had shopping/errands to do "down the hill" in Highland and Redlands. We started with nine bars of charge and did a mixture of friction braking and regenerative braking going down CA 330, and ended up with about 80% SOC (10 bars) when we got to the bottom. (As our intention was to do the whole drive on one charge, we started with a somewhat higher SOC than usual.) Upon leaving the Trader Joe's in Redlands, we had a full nine bars of charge, which dropped to eight bars just as we were about to start the climb up Hwy. 330.

Feeling confident about our charge level, I decided to try driving faster, between 45 and 55 mph the whole way up CA 330, instead of 35-40 mph. According to the Energy Info screen, the motor power was at 30-40 kW for most of the climb. Instead of arriving at home with the usual two bars of charge, we had one bar remaining. That didn't seem too bad.

 

[abasile]

Yesterday evening we were visiting with friends in Montclair, CA, almost exactly 50 miles from our home and 5100' lower in altitude. Using our Quick220 and modified EVSE (V1), we charged to 100% before leaving their house. The goal was to make it home without stopping anywhere along the way for additional charge, with my wife and two kids in the car, plus lots of cargo. This was definitely stretching the limit of what we feel comfortable driving on one charge.

So, with the kids quickly asleep, we took the slow way home, 100% surface streets and no freeways. I drove as slowly and gently as conditions permitted. Thanks to the built-in Bluetooth capability, a fair amount of the time was passed talking on the phone with a family member.

Finally, we arrived in Highland, CA near the base of the mountain, with seven almost-full bars of charge, the lowest we had ever started "up the hill" with. We drove close to 35 mph all the way up the mountain, used turnouts several times to let faster cars pass, and made it home with one bar of charge. Just as I pulled into our driveway, the "low battery" warning appeared.

While more range would certainly be ideal for drives that this nature, the current, first-generation LEAF is still good enough to be the primary car that we drive. Of course, it's a cinch to use it for all the driving we do between the San Bernardino mountain communities.

 

[DaveL]

Thanks abasile for all the great information about driving in the mountains.

We're continuing to have a good time with our Leaf at our cabin in the Cascade mountains in Washington. As I've gotten a better feel for how much power it takes to climb, I too have increased my speed to the point where I go the speed limit most of the time.

Just did another run up to the Crystal Mountain Ski Resort and this time kept better track of how far I can travel back up after running in Eco mode and regen on the way down.

Trip goes like this:

19 miles @ 50 mph climbing 2595'
12 miles @ 35-45 mph dropping 2680'
6 miles @ 35 mph climbing 1600'

After regening all the way down on the 2nd leg, I had generated enough to get 1/2 way up the 3rd leg before the M/KWH instant guage drop from the max 8 m/kwh. Used 6 bars to get there and 5 to return. I did some L1 charging during the 3+ hours were were there hiking around the area, and gained back 2 bars. At the end of the trip, (74 miles) I still had 3 bars showing, so I really didn't need to charge in route.

I've found that the car regen's more than I had anticipated given my previous Prius experience. Coming back to the cabin, dropping that 2595' over 19 miles, I regen more than I use and sometime gain a bar back in the process.

Dave

 

[abasile]

I've found that the car regen's more than I had anticipated given my previous Prius experience.

Having a much larger battery pack to accept all of that regen sure makes a huge difference in the mountains! It also helps that the LEAF will accept up to 30 kW of regen, as compared to 20 kW in the Prius. ECO mode regen in the LEAF is easier to use as well, in my opinion.

On the 5000 foot descent down our mountain, we often gain two bars from regen. One of these days, perhaps I should try a longer descent (and go more slowly) to see if we can regen three or four bars. I could drive to the top of Keller Peak (over 7800'), then go 21 miles straight down to the San Bernardino Valley (elev. 1200').

 

[abasile]

Over the weekend, we hiked to the top of Sugarloaf Mountain, elev. 9952' and east of Big Bear. It's a beautiful 10 mile round trip that starts at 7400'.

From our house, the roundtrip drive to the trailhead is 52 miles, including 3 miles (1.5 miles each way) on a somewhat rocky dirt road (Forest Service 2N93). Of course, we used the LEAF rather than our AWD car, despite the fact that the gasoline in the latter is going to get stale if we don't use it before too long.

Wanting to be on the safe side, we charged to 80% the night before, then added an additional half-hour of charging. I drove "normally" and did not make a lot of effort to hypermile. As we arrived at the trailhead with five full bars of charge, and still had four full bars upon our return home, it turns out that 80% would have been plenty. In the city of Big Bear Lake, I enjoyed zipping away from other cars at traffic lights.

Driving the dirt road was not a problem at all, even on the somewhat steeper and rockier sections. I kept our speed to 10 mph or less, and avoided gnarly rocks. The nice thing about an electric drivetrain (this goes for the Prius as well, which we've also driven on dirt roads) is that it's easier to apply exactly the amount of power desired and the gearing is always "perfect". For a passenger car, the LEAF has generous clearance.

Near the summit, we came across a couple of hikers who noticed our LEAF parked at the trailhead. They thought it was "cool".

As the day progressed, it became increasingly cloudy and we observed a number of lightning strikes in the distance. Although we never got rained on, the roads in Big Bear Lake were wet.

 

[Yanquetino]

LOVE reading these narratives! Whets my appetite to someday take delivery of my LEAF and drive it around the mountains and canyons where we live. Someday we hope to take a daytrip in it to Zions, and recharge it at one of the RV Parks there while we hike the trails.

 

[abasile]

On the spur of the moment this morning, we decided to try hiking Gold Mountain, to the northeast of Big Bear Lake with views of the Mojave Desert. I believe that mountain is so named because it is in an area that once had a great deal of gold mining activity. Although we had only seven bars of charge (I usually like to stop charging at seven or eight bars to allow for trips down the mountain), I figured we could do the 50 mile round trip to the trailhead with some hypermiling.

Unfortunately, before we even had a chance to start hiking, it started raining hard and the temperature dropped to 53°. We simply weren't prepared for that. We had anticipated the possibility of light, intermittent showers, but nothing substantial. After all, early September is typically the start of "fire season" here. So we turned around to drive home.

At this point, we had 25 more miles of driving to do, and three bars of charge. While I was averaging above 5 miles/kWh and was confident that we could make it home even with the drop in temperature and consequent need to run the defogger, I wasn't all that eager to treat my family and our guest to a "low battery" warning. In any event, we decided to stop at the Big Bear Discovery Center (near the north shore of the lake) and try hiking a different trail in hopes of the rain passing.

Lo and behold, upon pulling into a parking space at the Discovery Center, we noticed an electrical outlet on the lightpost directly in front of our car! We immediately plugged in for some L1. (I probably could have used our Quick 220 to draw power from two different lightposts and charge at 240 V, but didn't think that would be necessary.)

Not wanting to simply "poach" electricity, we walked into the Center (managed by the San Bernardino National Forest Association) and told the folks at the front desk what we were doing. I informed them that I was making a small donation that would more than cover the cost of any electricity used. They were quite interested to hear about the LEAF and one volunteer followed me out to the car to check it out. This was the first EV any of them had seen. Besides answering the usual questions, I made sure to point out that, due to the lack of an exhaust manifold, etc., the LEAF's ground clearance is nearly comparable to that of a Subaru. It turns out that the lady who followed me out to the car is a fellow mountain resident and has solar PV at home. They encouraged me to return with the LEAF.

As the rain never completely stopped, we didn't end up hiking much. But we did arrive at home with one full bar of charge and never had to hear the "low battery" warning.

 

[surfingslovak]

As the rain never completely stopped, we didn't end up hiking much. But we did arrive at home with one full bar of charge and never had to hear the "low battery" warning.

Great story! Been following your thread from the start. Heading out for some R&R myself, wish you a great Labor Day holiday.

 

[abasile]

A few days ago, my in-laws wanted to take the LEAF to visit friends, plus a fruit farm with fresh jujubes, down in Lucerne Valley (elev. 3000'). Given the distance (90+ miles roundtrip) and significant elevation changes, plus uncertainty as to the ease of charging down there, I felt uneasy about them taking the LEAF and suggested they take the Prius instead. Then it occurred to me I could take a little time off and drive them there myself in the LEAF. I had yet to try that particular drive, and wanted to experience it for myself.

We charged to 100%, then left Arrowbear (elev. 6100') at about 6:30 AM. Heading east on CA-18 up to Big Bear, then on CA-38 along the scenic north shore of Big Bear Lake through Fawnskin, I drove slowly and efficiently so as to conserve charge. Passing through Big Bear City, the outside temperature read as low as 33°F (it's typically colder in the morning hours there). We continued to the northeast on CA-18 past Baldwin Lake (a very shallow, seasonal lake that's currently dry), then climbed just a tad.

At 6900' elevation and 26 miles into the drive, with seven full bars of charge, we were about to make the steep, multi-hairpin, 4000' descent into Lucerne Valley. I was hoping to be able to pick up a couple of bars of charge in regen. Unfortunately, likely due to a combination of the steepness of the descent, the low temperature, and the state of charge, I wasn't able to get full regen. So we made it down to the valley with eight bars showing.

The final couple of miles to my in-laws' friends' home, which they had never visited before, were on dirt roads. While I didn't anticipate any problems with this, it turned out that one of the roads was especially sandy due to last winter's unusual rainfall. The LEAF had to fight harder, and I found myself having to gun it in order to get through a couple of dicey sections without bogging down. The Prius, with its lower clearance, might not have made it. Upon arrival, we were told that there is a better, though somewhat longer route. (Too bad they didn't mention that earlier.)

We made it with seven full bars of charge, and it worked out perfectly to plug in for about four hours on L1, bringing our charge back up to 12 bars (not quite 100%).

After a nice meal, we then drove several miles over to a Korean owned fruit farm (also on a dirt road) with lots of delicious, ripe, U-pick jujubes. Some were being dried in the sun.

Passing the center of Lucerne Valley on our way home, we had ten full bars of charge. Back up at 6900' near Baldwin Lake, we still had five bars. The LEAF handled the ascent quite well! My father-in-law wanted to drive around the other side of Baldwin Lake and add a few miles, so we did that. We made it home having logged 101 miles and two full bars of charge remaining.

 

[abasile]

Now that I have an SOC meter (thanks to garygid for his impressive work and thanks to tbleakne for driving up here and delivering it), I thought I'd share some SOC "percentage" values from a short shopping trip down to Trader Joe's in Redlands and back up.

On the descent (note that the SOC was a tad too high for full regen, so there was some friction braking):
65.8% at "downtown" Running Springs, the top of CA-330
79.3% at the junction of CA-330 and the 210 freeway

On the ascent (with speeds mostly ranging from 30-40 mph):
69.7% at the CA-330 and 210 junction
26.6% at downtown Running Springs

Also, I do have some rough SOC/charge "waypoints" that I've repeatedly observed when averaging 30-40 mph up CA-330:
- Exit the 210 with 8 "full" charge bars (just dropped from 9 bars)
- When passing the City Creek Ranger station at the "top" of the lower passing lane, drop to 6 bars.
- Upon reaching the 4000 foot elevation sign at the top of the middle passing lane, drop to 4 bars.
- At the intersection of Old City Creek Rd., above the upper passing lane, drop to 2 bars.
- Arrive in Running Springs or Arrowbear with 2 bars (less than full).

 

[abasile]

At the weekend we made another drive down to Redlands for shopping. I was hoping this would give us some better data on regen efficiency, but it didn't quite work out that way. While we started with a lower SOC than last time, our regen was still limited to about 10 kW by the time we got below 3000 feet, necessitating the use of intermittent, moderate friction braking. One factor was that the battery pack was relatively cold, having just gone from four bars to five bars on the temperature gauge. Here is the data:

On the descent from the 76 gas station in Running Springs to the 210 Freeway junction via CA-330:
- Started down at 59.4% SOC / 167 gids / 0 miles
- Ended with 74.7% SOC / 210 gids / 15.5 miles

On the ascent from the 210 back to Running Springs:
- Started up with 62.9% SOC / 177 gids / 28.7 miles
- Ended with 16.0% SOC / 45 gids / 44.4 miles

Observations, etc.:
- 15.3% SOC gained on this descent compared to 13.5% on the previous descent
- 46.9% SOC used on this ascent compared to 43.1% on the previous ascent
- Average speed, both ascending and climbing, was at least 5 mph lower than last time (30-35 mph up, 40-45 mph down)
- Battery temperature might have been almost one bar lower this time
- Did not use climate control on either trip
- Our SOC upon arriving home in Arrowbear was 13.1%.

Conclusions:
- Our range, and possibly our regen, was affected by the lower battery temperature
- Regen "experiments" would best control for pack temperature
- In cold weather, we should leave the mountain for shopping with a higher SOC, even if that necessitates some additional friction braking on the descent. It would be best to plan on arriving home with at least 20% SOC, just in case.
- LEAF drivers dwelling in the San Bernardino Mountains (in other words, as of today, my household) will much appreciate the installation of additional "chargers" at Valley retail establishments. One hour of "opportunity" charging will make all the difference in some cases.

 

[DaveL]

... One factor was that the battery pack was relatively cold, having just gone from four bars to five bars on the temperature gauge...

Do you remember what the ambiant temperature was when you started the trip and how cold it got the night before?

How much before you began the trip (with 4 bars on the temp guage) did you complete the charge? I'm just wondering if charging the battery right before taking off would warm them up enough to make a difference.

Thanks for continuing to post this type of information. Your efforts are much appreciated!

 

[Stoaty]

Conclusions:
- Our range, and possibly our regen, was affected by the lower battery temperature
- Regen "experiments" would best control for pack temperature

I am beginning to think temperature has an effect on range, even at the more modest temperatures I encounter. A good way to check on this is to note efficiency on the dash or center console. My work commute was a very steady 5.8 miles/KWh in the summer; I stopped checking the efficiency for an individual drive, but plan to start again now that the weather is cooler to see if my efficiency (and hence my range) are less now.