2011 48k miles - car won't charge

[Stoaty]

I'm checking to see if this can be elevated further beyond the groups that have been handling so far. Sorry for the trouble you're having. I fear that with the holiday, there might be a little bit of a delay on the corporate end, which I know is frustrating. I will do the best I can.

This is a step forward, but Nissan also needs to train their service people to properly diagnose this sort of problem. It's pretty evident the problem is the OBC, but Nissan's scripts apparently prevent the service people from using their own brain to deduce that fact.

 

[JeremyW]

Get a clamp-on ammeter and measure the L1. My L1 does fine at 16a 240v (evseupgrade.com) so I am thinking you might be over 16a if it gets super hot.
What is the breaker rating of your L1 circuit?

I have seen my OBC (without the Brusa running) draw 17.5 A on 208V for ~3640W. Lets assume there is an input amperage limit of 17.5 amps and a power limit of ~3800 watts. Since the OBC does not know how much current it is drawing on the AC lines, it derives this from the input voltage and the output power.

If the on board charger assumes it has an available 12A pilot and 173V input voltage, it should see a bit less than 2076W (1785W into the battery at 86% efficiency) on the output. BUT if the voltage is actually 120V, it will draw 17.3A to make that 2076W.

If the on board charger assumes it has an available 16A pilot (EVSE upgrade Rev 2 spits out this pilot regardless of input voltage) and 173V input voltage, it should see a bit less than 2768W (2380W into the battery at 86% efficiency) on the output. BUT if the voltage is actually 120V, it would attempt to draw 19.8 A but might hit the 17.5 A limit, or just stress components at higher than rated currents, I'm not sure.

Without an ammeter on the input, its tough to be sure what the draws actually are. I would not recommend the car be used in this state. My guess is that the OBC is drawing somewhere between 16 and 20 amps. :?

 

[pchilds]

My Leaf pulls 18 amps at 158 vac.

 

[Pipcecil]

There has been some movement happening and I am thinking more behind the scenes stuff might be going in motion. With the holidays though, it is hard to tell (people out, skelton crews, or stuff not being even open). It was requested by my Nissan rep and the dealership, whom contacted me tuesday afternoon, to bring my car back to the dealership and I was authorized for a rental car as well. The dealership knows just about as much as I do when I dropped it off today - i.e. I needed to bring the car in and I get a rental.

Aerovironment, I believe is still supposed to come out and replace my EVSE last I checked with them, just to further make sure my home EVSE is not at fault. Although, if Nissan has agreed to look at the car again and/or does not think my home EVSE (the AV unit not my Voltec) is the issue, this might be on hold...I know AV had been coordinating with Nissan directly since Monday (and possibly earlier than that, but I am certain at least it started on Monday).

So lets see what happens now. At least I don't have to worry about burning up my Level 1 EVSE and spending my lunch break at a QC everyday.

 

[Phoenix]

Curious why after the FIRST time you took it into the dealership, they were able to charge your LEAF on their Level 2 without any problem. Yet, when you took it to a public Level 2, it stopped charging. (Unless, you weren't getting the full story from the dealership?)

 

[GregH]

Curious why after the FIRST time you took it into the dealership, they were able to charge your LEAF on their Level 2 without any problem. Yet, when you took it to a public Level 2, it stopped charging. (Unless, you weren't getting the full story from the dealership?)

The dealership L2 is 208V, most residential and some public L2s are 240V.
The problem is the 2011/12 OBC can't correctly measure the line voltage. 120V is measured as 170-175V, 208V is measured as 270-280V and 240V is measured as 293V or more. The OBC faults at 293V or more so it cannot charge on a residential or public L2 station with 240V. 208V commercial voltage at the dealership doesn't trip at the 293V limit so it charges ok.
So far only two vehicles have shown this problem, but it is the exact same problem so whatever component in the OBC is failing, it's the same for both of us.
Wish I had the OBC schematics...

 

[KillaWhat]

Curious why after the FIRST time you took it into the dealership, they were able to charge your LEAF on their Level 2 without any problem. Yet, when you took it to a public Level 2, it stopped charging. (Unless, you weren't getting the full story from the dealership?)

The dealership L2 is 208V, most residential and some public L2s are 240V.
The problem is the 2011/12 OBC can't correctly measure the line voltage. 120V is measured as 170-175V, 208V is measured as 270-280V and 240V is measured as 293V or more. The OBC faults at 293V or more so it cannot charge on a residential or public L2 station with 240V. 208V commercial voltage at the dealership doesn't trip at the 293V limit so it charges ok.
So far only two vehicles have shown this problem, but it is the exact same problem so whatever component in the OBC is failing, it's the same for both of us.
Wish I had the OBC schematics...

This should be copied right onto the service order.
It EXACTLY outlines the problem, and explains the reason that It charges at the dealer.

p.s. RE, behind the scenes.
I'd be surprised if Brian Brockman hasn't gotten involved.
This is kind of a public black eye for Nissan, and it's so easily understood and fixed by the "right" people.
Hell, just show them the post above by GregH.
(Maybe put it in the service manual!)

 

[Pipcecil]

Well good news on my front. I was called yesterday evening with an update - my car has been authorized to have the on-board charger replaced. AV/eVgo was also contacted (or they were keeping tabs on the issue - I would vote the later) so my wall EVSE unit will not be replaced (since it was never the problem), so no tech coming out.

The part was ordered yesterday, and it is arriving at the dealership today (mighty fast if you ask me for a more uncommon part that is not kept in stock). Replacement will start Monday. My guess for the later start is either a) they want to look at/diagnose the car more b) are getting enigneers from somewhere to install or c) all of the above.

Personally, neither of those issues bother me and actually make me more happy - If they are getting engineers out that means it will be done right and/or if they are doing more diagnostics that would help anyone else that may get this future problem to not have the issues I had.

Hopefully now with this being solved, GregH's car can get repaired as well!

 

[jhm614]

Glad to hear this is getting resolved! Hope the part shows on time and fixes the problem.

 

[Pipcecil]

just a quick update for my car, the part that was ordered and came in on friday was not the correct one, so the correct one was ordered with an estimated arrival of monday.

Interestingly, I had been checking my car status through carwings because I was curious. Firstly, I think they did some battery diagonstics. I came into the dealership @ 1 bar left (it was a cold windy morning). They had only charged the car to 3 bars and had left it at that. They always perform the battery test @ 2-3 bars so that was reasoning for them adding a couple of bars and then unpluging it.

Then, on sunday, carwings errored out with a cannot connect to car (not server, but car). So they probably had pulled the car apart by then and had disconnected everything.

So, I am guessing I am going to get the car wednesday, tuesday if I am lucking baring no setbacks.

 

[GregH]

Hopefully now with this being solved, GregH's car can get repaired as well!

Great news!

Although I hate to admit it, my Franken120V setup at 1.8kW is kinda cool.. I plug in around LBW before going to bed and it's just finishing the charge when I leave for work in the morning :/

Seriously though, looking forward to getting back to normal.

 

[Pipcecil]

I hope your car gets fixed soon. You have been living with your broken vehicle for awhile now. It makes me sad they haven't started to work on yours though

I just hope after all this is done they can figure out a way to easily identify this problem without all the issues we both had. Although, with as cold as it was this morning in Dallas (16 degrees and very windy), I am almost glad I didn't have to witness how low my range would have been with my battery degradation - it probably would have made me sad!

On an interesting note, my wife's volt gave a display she has never seen before: Engine Running Due to Temperature. Ek! makes me wish I curled up and stayed in bed this morning. But I know its worse for all the northerners with the negative digits - Us Texans freak out with it hits mid 20's, and stuff in the mid teens is unheard of!

 

[Pipcecil]

Finally got my car back last evening, yea! Unfortunately I am sad to report I did not get a new awesome battery or a 6.0 kW OBC added...one could have only hoped :lol:

But, beyond wishful thinking, the car charges and runs just like it did before. The offical report was Nissan was finally able to locate the problem (they ran the same test but found the error this time....don't know how that works). Anyways the offical cause was the OBC was overheating and causing the reporting of higher voltage into the car. The whole OBC was replaced - I bet that was a sight to see since the battery and wiring harness were removed to replace it.

I forgot the summary paper at home, so I will post what the actually said (my summary could be slightly inaccurate). While I didn't get all the paper work, the paperwork I signed and handed back was a thick thick stack of papers, most were just odd paper slips of the VIN and service order # and that was it. Never seen a stack of that much paper though - there was probably many many hoops to get through to get the OBC replaced.

Yea for car back!!

 

[KJD]

How much did the repair work cost you ?

 

[GregH]

Anyways the offical cause was the OBC was overheating and causing the reporting of higher voltage into the car.

What the What?!?!

 

[Pipcecil]

Ok, so firstly, bad me - I forgot to type up what their diagnosis last night and forgot to take the paper with me to work today, so, sorry my rememberance of what the paper said will have to do for now. But yes, as far as I remember, they diagnosis was saying the OBC was overheating and causing the voltage error problems, but, in the end, regardless of what made the OBC fault out, it was causing overvoltage which caused all the issues with the charging on Level 1 and Level 2 (240).

As for the cost, it was covered by the warranty (as it should be). It is part of the electrical drive system which is under the 60k powertrain warranty. So yea for free service!

 

[KillaWhat]

- I bet that was a sight to see since the battery and wiring harness were removed to replace it.

I'd be interested to know if they truly dropped the battery, and/or pulled a wiring harness out for this.

When they replaced my OBC, that is, once we got to the actual replacement part, it only took about an hour.
Pull off the "Hump Cover" in the back, popped off a few big orange connectors, unbolted it, replaced it, plugged it back in, and away you go.

No reason to remove the battery or wiring harness, unless they chose to replace the J1772 harness for some reason, which runs under the battery.

Glad it finally worked out.
Things should not always have to be this difficult.
I look forward to seeing your additional info, and thanks for keeping us posted.

 

[Pipcecil]

ok I got the official paper repair in front of me, its only minimal, but am sure some of the smarter people on here can understand it better:

50080 ran consult test & found code p3173 & b2840 stored. found on board charger will not switch between different voltage charging systems & causing on board charger to overheat & set code. Replaced on board charger to correct.

as for how they replaced it - I don't know, it was only guesses. They kept the battery at a low charge for a few days (3 bars), which is odd so I assumed they were running some diagnostics on it. For few days the car was completely unreachable, so it as completely disconnected for a few days.

They left it in that state for a few days, so I just assumed they were running some test.

 

[GregH]

B2840 is the internal charger fault.. Plugging into 240V and having the charger read >293V will net you this one..

 

[cwerdna]

TSB Reference
#NTB-13-105

Description: NISSAN: PEP CHARGING STATIONS IN OPERATIONS BUT NOT IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL SAE J1772 STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS FOR ERROR FREE CHARGING THAT FAILS TO START AND EV WARNING LIGHT ILLUMINATES (DTC P3171, P3170, P316C FOR PD MODULE SYSTEM) OR CHA

One can download the PDF of the TSB at http://x.nissanhelp.com/forums/Knowledgebase.html?catid=783#.UuILLvuIYeM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, once you get a free account.

Also, NTB13-098 is at http://x.nissanhelp.com/forums/Knowledgebase.html?linkid=3908&catid=802#.UuIJrvuIYeM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.