DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14687
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Nov 2019
Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Is there any data for DOD cycles on a battery at different % of Degradation?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:02 am

jdvm1988 wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:44 pm
Hi, first post here, I wanted to know if someone had any data or graph of the DOD cycles until end of life of battery but with different % of Degradation. I only find online data for DOD cycles of a brand new battery.

Im asking this because Im getting a 2013 S in a deal (not living in the US), the dealer cut back 6k of the price because the battery is really degradated, 5/12 bars, you read that right, 3 white ones with only 69k miles on it.

So I know I have to replace the battery and the dealer already discounted the price for it, BUT, I was thinking how much miles can it go with that kind of Degradation. I have a short commute and can charge at work, but how many miles can I "steal" from this old battery?
Location? (Not in US doesn't work for me)

Price of car?

price of battery?

"Nissan" discounted the battery, not the dealer.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 7059.6 mi, 95.35% SOH
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LeftieBiker
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Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Is there any data for DOD cycles on a battery at different % of Degradation?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:23 am

It's possible that the dealership discounted the labor.
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2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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jdvm1988
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:04 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Feb 2020

Re: Is there any data for DOD cycles on a battery at different % of Degradation?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:29 am

WetEV wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:24 am
nlspace wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:30 am
But capacity loss wasn't the question--OP wanted to know how many miles he could drive with a 5/12 pack.
I agree that the OP wasn't exactly clear.

"How many more miles will this pack last for me?" is the way I read it. Not how many miles per charge. But I could be wrong, of course. Perhaps the OP will clarify.
You are right that is the question, how many miles can this old pack last for me?, I asked for the DoD cycles cause ive been told that the more discharged the battery on a cycle the less the battery last. That way I can estimate that this pack will last X miles for me until the battery change. Which I know for a fact its gonna happen.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Is there any data for DOD cycles on a battery at different % of Degradation?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:31 am

The packs seem to be hard to kill, in that there are four and even three bar Leafs reported on Facebook and other places that are still drive-able. Cwerdna would best know how many of those have been seen.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jdvm1988
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:04 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Feb 2020

Re: Is there any data for DOD cycles on a battery at different % of Degradation?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:55 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:02 am
jdvm1988 wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:44 pm
Hi, first post here, I wanted to know if someone had any data or graph of the DOD cycles until end of life of battery but with different % of Degradation. I only find online data for DOD cycles of a brand new battery.

Im asking this because Im getting a 2013 S in a deal (not living in the US), the dealer cut back 6k of the price because the battery is really degradated, 5/12 bars, you read that right, 3 white ones with only 69k miles on it.

So I know I have to replace the battery and the dealer already discounted the price for it, BUT, I was thinking how much miles can it go with that kind of Degradation. I have a short commute and can charge at work, but how many miles can I "steal" from this old battery?
Location? (Not in US doesn't work for me)

Price of car?

price of battery?

"Nissan" discounted the battery, not the dealer.
I live in the Dominican Republic, nissan does not import leaf's in this country. (warranty is out of the question) all the leaf's in the country are imported by independent dealers or by anyone. That is not at all rare in this country, same happens with all the rest of other brands.

Over here in DR since you have to pay quite a few taxes when importing any vehicle all the prices are overinflated, 2013 leafs are selling for around US$14,000 Ive seen some even get to US$15,000, Im buying the car at US$7,900, because dealer knows I have to do some work on it.

I hope I clarified this whole mess, and thanks to everyone for their input, really appreciate it.

cwerdna
Posts: 10387
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Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Is there any data for DOD cycles on a battery at different % of Degradation?

Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:42 pm

^^^
Those prices are insane.
LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:31 am
The packs seem to be hard to kill, in that there are four and even three bar Leafs reported on Facebook and other places that are still drive-able. Cwerdna would best know how many of those have been seen.
Yeah. The worst I've seen pics of are 3 capacity bar cars (e.g. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&p=572630&hili ... nd#p572630).

Sorry, I haven't monitored nor read this thread carefully so I might be missing some things. I don't know where in the DR the OP is and how much the climate varies but if it's like Santo Domingo (I Googled for santo domingo average temperatures and came up with https://imgur.com/a/rh6HU8B) I really would not want to have a 5 bar car. The average high year round temps are too high and the lows are too high. It will degrade that battery pretty quickly.

If the OP wants to keep the car for a long time, with that kind of climate, better getting an 11 or 12 bar "lizard" pack model year '15 from a cool climate or one that had battery changed to a "lizard" pack or getting some other EV w/battery thermal management that can keep the battery below those temps.

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

jdvm1988
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:04 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Feb 2020

Re: Is there any data for DOD cycles on a battery at different % of Degradation?

Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:19 am

cwerdna wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:42 pm
^^^
Those prices are insane.
LeftieBiker wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:31 am
The packs seem to be hard to kill, in that there are four and even three bar Leafs reported on Facebook and other places that are still drive-able. Cwerdna would best know how many of those have been seen.
Yeah. The worst I've seen pics of are 3 capacity bar cars (e.g. viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&p=572630&hili ... nd#p572630).

Sorry, I haven't monitored nor read this thread carefully so I might be missing some things. I don't know where in the DR the OP is and how much the climate varies but if it's like Santo Domingo (I Googled for santo domingo average temperatures and came up with https://imgur.com/a/rh6HU8B) I really would not want to have a 5 bar car. The average high year round temps are too high and the lows are too high. It will degrade that battery pretty quickly.

If the OP wants to keep the car for a long time, with that kind of climate, better getting an 11 or 12 bar "lizard" pack model year '15 from a cool climate or one that had battery changed to a "lizard" pack or getting some other EV w/battery thermal management that can keep the battery below those temps.
Thanks for the tip on the lizard battery, pardon my ignorance but is the '15 battery pack compatible with the '13 leaf?

And yes i do live in Santo Domingo, what can I expect of this or some other battery over here? 10% capacity loss per year? Indeed there are a lot of leafs over here, but i seriously doubt anyone has a clue on capacity loss and degradation. Thanks again.

goldbrick
Posts: 781
Joined: Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:33 pm
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Leaf Number: 311806
Location: Boulder, CO

Re: Is there any data for DOD cycles on a battery at different % of Degradation?

Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:36 am

Nissan improved the battery lifetime during the 2013 model year. It sounds like this Leaf was built early in 2013 and has the worse battery type. It will continue to degrade slowly and heat makes it go faster. You can probably just extrapolate the range loss it has already experienced to see how it will behave in the future. Be aware that the 1st bar is 15% loss and each subsequent bar is 7.5% loss. Your hot climate will increase the loss rate unless the car is coming from a hot place, like Miami.

The build date of the car should be listed on a sticker inside the door. Or you might be able to get it from the VIN. In any case, a car from 2014 or 2015 will have a battery that will degrade much slower, especially in heat.

One bad cell can be replaced if defective but I'd guess that isn't the case here. Most likely the entire pack is degraded and replacing one or two cells won't make it better.

jdvm1988
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2020 9:04 pm
Delivery Date: 29 Feb 2020

Re: Is there any data for DOD cycles on a battery at different % of Degradation?

Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:18 pm

goldbrick wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:36 am
Nissan improved the battery lifetime during the 2013 model year. It sounds like this Leaf was built early in 2013 and has the worse battery type. It will continue to degrade slowly and heat makes it go faster. You can probably just extrapolate the range loss it has already experienced to see how it will behave in the future. Be aware that the 1st bar is 15% loss and each subsequent bar is 7.5% loss. Your hot climate will increase the loss rate unless the car is coming from a hot place, like Miami.

The build date of the car should be listed on a sticker inside the door. Or you might be able to get it from the VIN. In any case, a car from 2014 or 2015 will have a battery that will degrade much slower, especially in heat.

One bad cell can be replaced if defective but I'd guess that isn't the case here. Most likely the entire pack is degraded and replacing one or two cells won't make it better.
Ok thanks, going with those numbers we are talking about a 60% capacity loss in 7 years, that's 8.5% a year, worst case scenario it will be double that number, say 17% by next year leaving the car with 23% left, aprox. 3 bars.

I think i can squeeze a few thousand miles in that timespan if a become a charging-maniac everywhere i go lol.

LeftieBiker
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Re: Is there any data for DOD cycles on a battery at different % of Degradation?

Sun Mar 01, 2020 2:25 pm

The 2015 Lizard pack is compatible with the 2013 cars AFAIK. It seems that even 2013 Leafs with the old chemistry use the newer case. You should know, though, that even a Lizard pack will degrade too fast if you have hot days and warm nights. I wouldn't recommend a Leaf there unless you have an air-conditioned garage and don't drive a lot.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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