Should I try to hasten battery degradation?

[Irabike]

I have a 2017 Leaf with 30kwh battery with 55,000 miles on it. At 40k I lost the first bar and at 50k the second. I was pretty careful about only fast charging to 85% and not letting it sit at 100 or below 20 etc, but certainly not perfect. It was mostly parked in a pretty sunny location. I feel like maybe now I should do everything wrong so I can hasten the battery degradation and ensure I get a replacement battery under warranty. Any thoughts?

 

[cornbinder89]

If it were me, I wouldn't. You have a '17 which means it will "age out of warranty" sooner. If you don't make it before you age out, you have degraded it for no gain. I bought a used '15 so am already aged out. I would enjoy the car, take good care of it and decide what you would like to do when the time come it can no longer make the trips you need. That time may be considerable if you don't try an make things worse.
Next there is the whole issue of battery replacement availability. Right now, Nissan is buying back cars they can't replace the battery on in a timely manor. Are you prepaid to wait? Are you looking for a buy back? Different people have reported differing results on the buy back.

 

[Stanton]

If this were any time before 2020, I would (and did); now, I'm not so sure. It seems as though Nissan has made a strategic (business) decision to promote "buy backs" instead of replacing battery packs. That doesn't mean you don't have alternative methods to replace/upgrade your pack, but I'm afraid the days of a "free" upgrade are gone.

 

[TobyHolland]

I have a 2017 Leaf with 30kwh battery with 55,000 miles on it. At 40k I lost the first bar and at 50k the second. I was pretty careful about only fast charging to 85% and not letting it sit at 100 or below 20 etc, but certainly not perfect. It was mostly parked in a pretty sunny location. I feel like maybe now I should do everything wrong so I can hasten the battery degradation and ensure I get a replacement battery under warranty. Any thoughts?

I can read ALL the charging / temperature / drive start % etc etc from any Leaf with the excellent Battery Report from the EVsEnhanced Service & Reporting Tool - if I can, Nissan can, and I'll bet there's a 'wilful abuse' Warranty exclusion clause hidden in all the small print.......

 

[cornbinder89]

While I would love for Nissan to "pony up" and give me a brand new battery. I don't expect that to happen. I bought my car with realistic expectations of what it can and can not do. I also have realistic expectations about battery degradation over time.
May be if I bought my car new, I'd feel different, but one reason I could afford a car with as few miles and in as good shape was because the resale value drops quickly on electrics and the Leaf especially due to the battery issue.
Instead of ponying up $23-$27K for a new car and likely having to finance it. I could pay cash, and in a few years likely make two more large payments if I choose to replace the battery, one as a down payment on the battery and one after it is installed.
Money save on fuel and financing will make paying for a new battery more palatable.
One other used car I had, has needed:
Fuel tank
fuel filler pipeing
Timing belt
oil pump seals
engine mounts
and many other small repairs spread over a few years.
My other car has needed
Clutch
Transmission
Turbo
and other small things.
If you add them up, they go a long way toward what a new 40KWh battery will cost.
Most of the repairs I did myself so that doesn't include labor/shop costs. Neither of those list include normal things like brakes shocks etc.
If you are focusing on ways to get Nissan to replace the battery, because they did for some, but yours doesn't yet need it, you are not a good fit for an electric car, and the Leaf specifically.
At some point all electrics will need a battery just as all ICE will need an overhaul. If you are focused on ruining an engine within warrantee period you are not focused on enjoying your car.
My Leaf would never have been a good long distance car as it was sold, and will never be one. It might someday become a car that can reliably do longer trips than it could new, for a fraction of what a new car costs. Going from a 24KWh pack to a replacement 40KWh pack will be an upgrade.
Sure, if Nissan said "we'd like to give you a brand new traction battery" I'd say yes, thankyou.
If an ICE car had a engine that died early, and was replaced by the mfg, I wouldn't try and ruin my engine just to try and get the mfg to replace it, I would take care of what I had and try and make it last.
I got 1.3 MILLION miles out of one of my truck engines before overhaul, and then it was back pulling freight. If you take care of stuff, it will last a reasonable amount of time in most cases, as long as you have reasonable expectations.

 

[dean]

I can read ALL the charging / temperature / drive start % etc etc from any Leaf with the excellent Battery Report from the EVsEnhanced Service & Reporting Tool - if I can, Nissan can, and I'll bet there's a 'wilful abuse' Warranty exclusion clause hidden in all the small print.......

Can you elaborate on this please? If so, this is the first I've heard of being able to get historical information from the pack or from the car. Where is that information stored?

I have seen that sort of info using Leafspy, but it is Leafspy retrieving instantaneous values and storing the info on the phone or device, not pulling it from the car.

Can you provide a sample or anonymized copy of the report from the EVsEnhanced tool?

 

[cornbinder89]

Nissan "Consult" and higher priced scan tools can access lots more info than cheaper ones. Professional Mechanics use scan tools that unlock this stored info, how much is available depends on what scanner. If you want to know, buy a Nissan Consult scanner and report back. There only several thousands of dollars.

https://diagnoex.com/products/nissan-infiniti-consult-4-factory-scan-tool-c4-kit

 

[dean]

Yes, I am aware that there are more advanced scan tools that can pull more data than others, but that data must exist and be logged by the car to be retrieved.

I'm suggesting that this is the first insinuation I've seen that historical data of pack temperature, SOC %, etc. are potentially being logged and stored in the car or pack. I'd like for @TobyHolland (who stated it above) or someone with access to the EVsEnhanced tool (or Consult) to demonstrate on whether that data exists in the car or pack.

If Nissan had a way to get that data, I'm surprised we haven't seen at least a few reports of denied warranty claims for same.

 

[TobyHolland]

Yes, I am aware that there are more advanced scan tools that can pull more data than others, but that data must exist and be logged by the car to be retrieved.

I'm suggesting that this is the first insinuation I've seen that historical data of pack temperature, SOC %, etc. are potentially being logged and stored in the car or pack. I'd like for @TobyHolland (who stated it above) or someone with access to the EVsEnhanced tool (or Consult) to demonstrate on whether that data exists in the car or pack.

If Nissan had a way to get that data, I'm surprised we haven't seen at least a few reports of denied warranty claims for same.

It is stored in the pack - absolutely - I do 'before and after' Battery Reports for my #LeafBatteryUpgrade customers, whilst I have their car - this also helps buyers of the 'older' packs to have a better idea what they're buying

 

[LeftieBiker]

The car also stores any instances of the pack sensors experiencing 120F heat for any significant length of time. That too will void the battery warranty.

 

[TobyHolland]

Can you elaborate on this please? If so, this is the first I've heard of being able to get historical information from the pack or from the car. Where is that information stored?

I have seen that sort of info using Leafspy, but it is Leafspy retrieving instantaneous values and storing the info on the phone or device, not pulling it from the car.

Can you provide a sample or anonymized copy of the report from the EVsEnhanced tool?

Here's a recent 30kwh to 40kwh upgrade,reports before & after the swap

 

[dean]

Here's a recent 30kwh to 40kwh upgrade,reports before & after the swap

Thank you @TobyHolland this is very interesting, and seems like new information not widely known.

Interesting how they aggregate the data in percentile terms. A few "hot charges" may be low in percentile terms but over a long vehicle history may look like a small contribution.

I wonder how granular the data is stored (seems to be in the pack, since it didn't follow the car after the pack swap). Or if the pack is doing the aggregation and averaging it out.

Regardless, I know there have to be some folks who have "hastened the degradation" with certain behavior, but we have likewise not seen (at least I haven't seen) cases reported of warranty denial due to such behavior.