DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Some Leaf Owners Experience Early Capacity Loss

Sat May 19, 2012 7:05 am

GerryAZ wrote:
SanDust wrote:How many people still think a thermal management system for the battery pack is unnecessary?
I am in Phoenix and I see no reason for the added complexity of active thermal management. My battery temperature has ranged between 4 and 8 bars during the past 11 months and 10,000+ miles.

Gerry
I won't say that I think the temperature range is good for the battery, but it is acceptable to me rather than having a complex, power-consuming thermal management system. Liquid cooling without a refrigeration system would be of little benefit with the high ambient temperatures common during the daytime in Phoenix. If a refrigeration system were used, the battery capacity would need to be much larger to give the same range while running the compressor and moving the heavier vehicle down the road. I prefer the simple air-cooled solution Nissan has chosen.

Gerry
what about the Ford Focus EV? it has 3 separate cooling loops that can be used in any combination to maintain temps of battery, inverter and charge controller.

it has a 23 Kwh pack but is reputed to go farther on a full charge than the Leaf. so maybe there is something to the management options for people in very warm climates.

as for me? i go with the cheaper Leaf since i dont have those high temps to worry about. the highest ive seen is 6 bars and i am guessing in the heat of Summer after a QC i might see up to 7 or 8
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
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LEAFfan
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Re: Some Leaf Owners Experience Early Capacity Loss

Sat May 19, 2012 1:39 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:i go with the cheaper Leaf since i dont have those high temps to worry about. the highest ive seen is 6 bars and i am guessing in the heat of Summer after a QC i might see up to 7 or 8
I've QCd in over 100 degree temps and the highest my temp gauge has gone is only 7 bars from the usual 6. I've never seen eight yet.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
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Cheezmo
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Re: Some Leaf Owners Experience Early Capacity Loss

Sat May 19, 2012 1:48 pm

Starting at 6, I experienced about 1 bar per QC. After 4 in one day it was at 9 bars.
Steve Martin
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LEAFfan
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Location: Phoenix Area

Re: Some Leaf Owners Experience Early Capacity Loss

Sat May 19, 2012 2:12 pm

I've yet to do more than one a day so far, but I will do more when they get the QCs next to the interstates.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
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mark13
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Re: Some Leaf Owners Experience Early Capacity Loss

Tue May 22, 2012 2:29 am

Well I hate to say it, but i think I just saw some battery capacity loss :( Top bar did not light up..
I did a full charge yesterday and after rubbing the tears from eyes, I came to terms that i may not ever be able to drive the car again, 130+ miles...

I just took the car in last week for the battery check @15500 miles and everything check out to perfect..
I took the car in 2 days later because of a headlight warning and I told them to do the software upgrade,I thought maybe that had something to do with it..

I need to go back Wed. when they have a specialist come in to see why they could not fix the warning light...I guess Ill question about the battery also...

15700 miles 6.0 M/KWH, 50/50- 100%/80% charges, Charge every other day..No fast charges..No Turtles..

PhX Az where it was 112 today in the shade :shock:

EdmondLeaf
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Location: Edmond, OK

Re: Some Leaf Owners Experience Early Capacity Loss

Tue May 22, 2012 4:57 am

mark13 wrote:Well I hate to say it, but i think I just saw some battery capacity loss :( Top bar did not light up..
I did a full charge yesterday and after rubbing the tears from eyes, I came to terms that i may not ever be able to drive the car again, 130+ miles...

I just took the car in last week for the battery check @15500 miles and everything check out to perfect..
I took the car in 2 days later because of a headlight warning and I told them to do the software upgrade,I thought maybe that had something to do with it..

I need to go back Wed. when they have a specialist come in to see why they could not fix the warning light...I guess Ill question about the battery also...

15700 miles 6.0 M/KWH, 50/50- 100%/80% charges, Charge every other day..No fast charges..No Turtles..

PhX Az where it was 112 today in the shade :shock:
mark13 I am so sorry about your bar loss, Looks like everything is pointing to PHX (AZ) temp as cause of this. You really took care of your car, however still join group of people that lost capacity bar. Having report from TaylorSFGuy that currently stand at 38KM and charged twice daily to 100% and still have new battery GID (272 - 280, Kent, WA) I will be paying attention where car is parked during OK summer months.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 15611
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Contact: Website

Re: Some Leaf Owners Experience Early Capacity Loss

Tue May 22, 2012 6:42 am

so several in AZ reporting loss. anyone in a moderate climate reporting any loss?

or anyone who is using bad charging habits reporting any loss?

although it would appear highly unlikely that the heat of AZ is not causing this, we still need more data.

after all, battery loss is supposed to happen but when? 6 months? 12 months? 18 months? i past 16 months with near zero loss and so have others who have driven much farther than me
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 19,653 mi, 93.47% SOH
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RegGuheert
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Location: Northern VA

Re: Some Leaf Owners Experience Early Capacity Loss

Tue May 22, 2012 8:01 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:after all, battery loss is supposed to happen but when? 6 months? 12 months? 18 months?
Battery capacity loss happens continuously. Many factor contribute to the rate of capacity loss, but it appears that in Phoenix temperature is dominant. In Washinton state, OTOH, neither 600 cycles nor one year nor the temperature there have seemed to make much difference. This is excellent news for most LEAF owners!
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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mwalsh
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Re: Some Leaf Owners Experience Early Capacity Loss

Tue May 22, 2012 8:04 am

After seeing what seems to be the beginnings of a north/south divide, certainly in the western states, I'm starting to think that Nissan should have gone with active thermal management.
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RegGuheert
Posts: 6419
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Re: Some Leaf Owners Experience Early Capacity Loss

Tue May 22, 2012 8:09 am

mwalsh wrote:After seeing what seems to be the beginnings of a north/south divide, certainly in the western states, I'm starting to think that Nissan should have gone with active thermal management.
I guess I prefer to purchase an EV without active battery thermal management because I don't really want the additional cost and complexity for very limited benefit. But it certainly begs the question of what Nissan should do with places like Phoenix. Who knows? perhaps places like Texas will be O.K. They don't seem to be at the 15%/year rate, anyway...
RegGuheert
2011 Leaf SL Demo vehicle
10K mi. on 041413; 20K mi. (55.7Ah) on 080714; 30K mi. (52.0Ah) on 123015; 40K mi. (49.8Ah) on 020817; 50K mi. (47.2Ah) on 120717; 60K mi. (43.66Ah) on 091918.
Enphase Inverter Measured MTBF: M190, M215, M250, S280

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