Some Leaf Owners Experience Early Capacity Loss

[GaslessInSeattle]

Thank you ChargedUp for sticking your neck out and writing about this openly. we will gain nothing by keeping our head in the sand. I've found the responses in this thread to be quite valuable. Seeing how these batteries handle extremes will help even those of us in more moderate climates over the long run.

I mentioned this in the other thread on the subject:

-I wish there was an initial 50% charge option to get the battery away from the bottom end SOC when first arriving home and an end timer option for topping off closer to the time of departure to say 70-100%. The aim here appears to be 50% for idle hours and there needs to be an easy, intuitive way of managing this otherwise it's going to be a PITA and a deal breaker for mainstreamers.
-I now see QC's as key to helping reduce the need for excessive opportunity charging. if we knew that we could get a QC with relative short notice there would be much less compelling drivers to charge up as often as possible with the off hand chance that they may need to go further than expected.
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[dgpcolorado]

...
-I wish there was an initial 50% charge option to get the battery away from the bottom end SOC when first arriving home and an end timer option for topping off closer to the time of departure to say 70-100%. The aim here appears to be 50% for idle hours and there needs to be an easy, intuitive way of managing this otherwise it's going to be a PITA and a deal breaker for mainstreamers...

A customizable timer would be nice but my solution to getting home with a low SOC is to punch override and set a kitchen timer for 90 minutes or so (~three bars). Then, when the timer sounds, unplug/replug and the car reverts to the main 80% timer.

Yes, it's a bit crude but it works well enough for someone with my placid lifestyle. And my garage is just a few steps from any room in the house (I designed it that way to make schlepping groceries to the kitchen easy). Although it would be a problem if someone was distracted enough to forget to set the kitchen timer.

 

[LEAFfan]

I had my one year battery check up yesterday a few weeks early because during QCing, I've had the EVBS light come on three times. I realized all three times was from the same QC (Riverview Toyota) and the tech guy said Nissan told him that it was from the QC that tripped the light. He didn't find any bad cells. He also was told by Nissan that a 10-12% capacity loss was 'gradual' and normal. I was there for 3 1/2 hours just for the diagnostics (and his hours on the phone with Nissan) and didn't have to have the 'updates'. He gave me copies of all the readouts. There's one that tells how many times you've pushed the car's power button since the last DTC.
I don't agree though that 10-12% is 'gradual' at 9K miles and a little less than a year, but letting it sit for almost three months at the port may have caused this problem. At least when I return the car in about two years, they can't dock me for battery capacity loss...LOL.

 

[ChargedUp]

Thank you ChargedUp for sticking your neck out and writing about this openly. we will gain nothing by keeping our head in the sand. I've found the responses in this thread to be quite valuable. Seeing how these batteries handle extremes will help even those of us in more moderate climates over the long run.

Thank you for that. I knew I would make some people unhappy. That post has certainly not gone without repercussions for me. Truly I want the Leaf to be a wild success, as I do any good EV, but feel we must address any issues or POTENTIAL issues, in the full light of day.

I wish there was an initial 50% charge option to get the battery away from the bottom end SOC when first arriving home and an end timer option for topping off closer to the time of departure to say 70-100%.

This is a very good idea. Will be interesting to see if it gets adopted. What if you set the car to do one charge, and if you had EVSE with a timer set it to do the other charge.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

I have not tried that and have to admit that I am leery to mess with the blink because I have grown to have zero confidence in the brand overall and am happy enough that it is working without a hitch so far.

I wish there was an initial 50% charge option to get the battery away from the bottom end SOC when first arriving home and an end timer option for topping off closer to the time of departure to say 70-100%.

This is a very good idea. Will be interesting to see if it gets adopted. What if you set the car to do one charge, and if you had EVSE with a timer set it to do the other charge.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

another report of capacity loss from turbo... that makes 4 now...ALL in AZ.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

another report of capacity loss from turbo... that makes 4 now...ALL in AZ.

and one in TX?
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=8337&p=187861#p187861

I just charged to 100% after receiving my SOC meter a few ways ago. 256. Slightly alarming. Range has always seemed acceptable. We now have 14k miles and charged to 100% for the first 10-12k miles. Then, it dawned on me that 80% would suffice for most of our trips. We now charge to 100% only about once a week. Indicated range (trip distance plus SMRD reading) is 90-95 miles on a full charge. That makes maximum range (to turtle) 95-105 miles.

If the gid really represents energy in the battery, I am 10-12% low.

 

[surfingslovak]

Don't forget GregH in LA, he started a whole thread about his inability to charge to 281, before we knew what Gids meant. And there is a fifth known case in Phoenix: bturner.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

So that makes 6 all in hot climates

 

[Stoaty]

I wish there was an initial 50% charge option to get the battery away from the bottom end SOC when first arriving home and an end timer option for topping off closer to the time of departure to say 70-100%.

There is a way to do this (roughly) if you have a fairly regular driving routine. It is a bit of a hassle, but I am trying it out myself. For example:

--Set timer 2 for a one hour charge starting an hour after I get home and set it to be active for that day, e.g., Tuesday. That gets me up to 50%.
--Set timer 1 for 1.5 hours to start at 5:30 AM and end at 7:00 AM (and set it to be active for the following day, e.g. Wednesday. That gets me to 75%.

The next evening I just have to change timer 2 to Wednesday and timer 1 to Thursday. If I drive more or less (unusual with my work schedule) I may have to adjust the length of charge a bit. A little cumbersome, but I am trying it out to see if it gets to be automatic after a week or two. Worked perfectly last night and this morning.

 

[turbo2ltr]

another report of capacity loss from turbo... that makes 4 now...ALL in AZ.

I don't know if you were talking about me, but I have not lost a bar yet. Though I do expect it soon.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Well u r the person I had in mind. Was it u that reported u are only getting 250 something GID on a full charge

 

[palmermd]

I wish there was an initial 50% charge option to get the battery away from the bottom end SOC when first arriving home and an end timer option for topping off closer to the time of departure to say 70-100%.

There is a way to do this (roughly) if you have a fairly regular driving routine. It is a bit of a hassle, but I am trying it out myself. For example:

--Set timer 2 for a one hour charge starting an hour after I get home and set it to be active for that day, e.g., Tuesday. That gets me up to 50%.
--Set timer 1 for 1.5 hours to start at 5:30 AM and end at 7:00 AM (and set it to be active for the following day, e.g. Wednesday. That gets me to 75%.

The next evening I just have to change timer 2 to Wednesday and timer 1 to Thursday. If I drive more or less (unusual with my work schedule) I may have to adjust the length of charge a bit. A little cumbersome, but I am trying it out to see if it gets to be automatic after a week or two. Worked perfectly last night and this morning.

why cant you just have timer 2 set daily from 7pm to 8pm and timer 1 set daily from 5:30am to 7am. Timer 2 only has to be a rough estimate to get you near 50% and timer 1 needs to be long enough to get you from the lowest timer 2 would get to from zero to reach full.

 

[LEAFfan]

Better make that six in AZ. When I was QCing yesterday, an ECOtality worker who has a LEAF told me he has lost about 10% (he has never QCd, but I didn't ask him about his charging procedures) and Nissan told him the same thing as the rest of us...it's gradual and normal.

 

[Stoaty]

why cant you just have timer 2 set daily from 7pm to 8pm and timer 1 set daily from 5:30am to 7am. Timer 2 only has to be a rough estimate to get you near 50% and timer 1 needs to be long enough to get you from the lowest timer 2 would get to from zero to reach full.

I thought that each day can only have one timer set. If that is wrong, so much the better. I will check on it.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

Just remembered, early on a Roadster owner told me to expect the biggest loss in the first year or so, somewhere around 5-10% and that it would level out and be more gradual from then on, that is what was common for Roadsters. can any Tesla owners verify this?

 

[Boomer23]

Don't forget GregH in LA, he started a whole thread about his inability to charge to 281, before we knew what Gids meant. And there is a fifth known case in Phoenix: bturner.

I don't think that you can count GregH. He didn't say that he had lost a bar of available charge. And on page 29 of that thread he mentioned that he was getting between 272 and 278 on 100% charges. That's hardly a significant loss.

 

[surfingslovak]

I don't think that you can count GregH. He didn't say that he had lost a bar of available charge. And on page 29 of that thread he mentioned that he was getting between 272 and 278 on 100% charges. That's hardly a significant loss.

Boomer, you are right, thanks for pointing that out. Greg's last report from March 27 says that 278 is the most common Gid reading he sees. Incidentally, I found the Austin owner reporting 10-12% capacity loss in the same thread. This means that we have six known cases in AZ, which includes the ECOtality tech LEAFfan has reported, and one case in Austin. None in LA.

 

[Herm]

I expect Leaf owners will experience the Tesla effect.. a leveling of battery degradation, mostly due to owners moderating their charge to 100% behavior. Assuming they find out about it.

At this rate some people will hit the 70% point sometime next year, a 3 year life for the battery will be disastrous publicity for Nissan. How will Nissan deal with it?.. will they ignore it?, was it smart for Nissan to include a battery degradation meter on the dash?

 

[Stanton]

At this rate some people will hit the 70% point sometime next year, a 3 year life for the battery will be disastrous publicity for Nissan. How will Nissan deal with it?.. will they ignore it?, was it smart for Nissan to include a battery degradation meter on the dash?

This is complete conjecture on your part with no basis for your extrapolation. Not to minimize concern for those affected, we're talking about a handful of cars out of about 10,000 delivered (just in the US) last year; this is a FRACTION OF 1%! Until we see evidence of this happening on cars with "gentle" (80%) charging protocols and "gentle" (no topping off) charging behaviors, then I'll get concerned.