Will you cancel your purchase without a capacity warranty?

[CampbellNelson]

continuous 100% charging
not depleting the battery pack before charging.

"These 3 factors alone combined and every day could end up with a 50% capacity in just 5 years" quote by a Nissan engineer.

These confuse me. I thought you didn't have to let the pack go to zero before charging. And what is continuous 100% charging.

Simple:
Charge the Leaf to 90% instead of 100% every time
Do not use the 480 volt quick charge unless it is an emergency
Use the car until it tells you it needs to be charged.

You will get a much longer life expectancy out of your Battery pack.

 

[palmermd]

I don't get the continuous 100% charging ...
what needs to be avoided ?

1. to recharge everyday, if you only drive 20 miles (as opposed to recharging only every 3 days, after driving 60 miles) ?

OR

2. To leave the car on a charger for a full week without ever disconnecting it / stopping the charge?

I'd say that I don't care about 2, especially with the iphone remote control, but if it's 1. then that's a big problem ... I thought the whole point was to wake up every morning with 100 miles of range ...

Don't unplug the car and plug it back in to re-initiate a charge after the car is already charged up. If you did not drive the car, do not unplug it and then plug it right back in. Even if the pack is full the charger will run for some time and if you keep doing it it will over-charge the car and damage the pack.

 

[Skywagon]

If that is the case, I might have to wait for a better choice. I hope they realize this oversight and correct the warranty to at least cover some type of capacity loss. There could very well be a non-defective pack that loses capacity too fast, but can still power the car, and this should be covered under the warranty.

It seems like it covers that. I just doesn't cover gradual loss.

How? I can see them covering an individual or a few modules, but if the whole pack is depleted, then you are out of luck. Without a performance guarantee and/or curve then they will just deny warranty claims on early depleted packs.

 

[cdub]

Use the car until it tells you it needs to be charged.

But this makes no sense. I thought the whole point was to wake up with a 100% (or 90 whatever) charge.

If I have to wait until it gets down to 20% that will just make me stranded somewhere and not be able to go to work.

 

[Skywagon]

GRADUAL CAPACITY LOSS
The Lithium-ion battery (EV battery), like all lithium-ion batteries, will experience gradual capacity loss with time and use. Loss of battery capacity due to or resulting from gradual capacity loss is NOT covered under this warranty. See your OWNER’S MANUAL for important tips on how to maximize the life and capacity of the “Lithium-ion battery.”

When is a loss in capacity not gradual? Are they providing a capacity loss curve that shows us what normal is and also what is not normal, and would be covered.

Basically if a cell fails from MFG defect it will be covered as long as it is not abused. Your pack can loos 100% capacity and you are out of luck. Also, those that live in AZ and park in a hot garage may have their warranty voided if the temp exceeds 120 on one day. 120 is not exactly that hot. This warranty only covers defects, that's not very encouraging since that is the bare minimum warranty on most products.

The warranty specifically states "Exposing a vehicle to ambient temperatures above120F (49C) for over 24 hours." If it does hit over 120F here it always cools at least into the 90's overnight. Therefore, it will not be left in a condition of over 120F for more than 24 hours as long as we leave our garage doors cracked/ventillation of some sort.

 

[CampbellNelson]

But this makes no sense. I thought the whole point was to wake up with a 100% (or 90 whatever) charge.

If I have to wait until it gets down to 20% that will just make me stranded somewhere and not be able to go to work.[/quote]

It all boils down to properly mapping your commute per day. Remember that you always plug it at work for a few hours if you need an additional boost to get you home.

 

[mwalsh]

If I have to wait until it gets down to 20% that will just make me stranded somewhere and not be able to go to work.

Yeah, I can't see me wanting to do that either. Most workdays I expect to be recharging from about 60-70% depleted. Maybe a bit less if the battery is range is better than anticipated. I can let it go down further on weekends, when I'm just bopping around town. But I can't see myself at work with an almost depleted battery and my only charging options being 110v or finding 480v (besides, doing that too often will be worse for the battery than just recharging at home from about 30-40%).

 

[EVDRIVER]

The warranty specifically states "Exposing a vehicle to ambient temperatures above120F (49C) for over 24 hours." If it does hit over 120F here it always cools at least into the 90's overnight. Therefore, it will not be left in a condition of over 120F for more than 24 hours as long as we leave our garage doors cracked/ventillation of some sort.[/quote]


Not if you park next to a volcano I can see garage temps over 120 for over 12 hours though.

 

[cdub]

But this makes no sense. I thought the whole point was to wake up with a 100% (or 90 whatever) charge.

If I have to wait until it gets down to 20% that will just make me stranded somewhere and not be able to go to work.

It all boils down to properly mapping your commute per day. Remember that you always plug it at work for a few hours if you need an additional boost to get you home.[/quote]

I'm sorry - but you're really confusing alot of people here and spreading discontent.

I was specifically told during all three of the Ride n Drive events that you don't need to deplete your battery in order to charge. You can charge at 80% 60% 20% - it doesn't matter.

And now you're saying that we should only charge when the car tells us to. I'm sorry but that makes no sense at all.

 

[CampbellNelson]

But this makes no sense. I thought the whole point was to wake up with a 100% (or 90 whatever) charge.

If I have to wait until it gets down to 20% that will just make me stranded somewhere and not be able to go to work.

It all boils down to properly mapping your commute per day. Remember that you always plug it at work for a few hours if you need an additional boost to get you home.

I'm sorry - but you're really confusing alot of people here and spreading discontent.

I was specifically told during all three of the Ride n Drive events that you don't need to deplete your battery in order to charge. You can charge at 80% 60% 20% - it doesn't matter.

And now you're saying that we should only charge when the car tells us to. I'm sorry but that makes no sense at all.[/quote]

I am not saying what you should or shouldn't do. I am simply repeating the answers I was given when I raised the same concerns. There is a 36 mon lease option if you are convinced that the car is not going to last. Nissan is taking on a lot of risk and tips on prolonging any re-chargeable battery life are exactly what they are: Tips.
I do not think that Nissan will allow the Leaf to fail. The major reason for the Leaf to fail is consumer confidence (lack of it). I will not be surprised in 2 -3 years time, there will be a very affordable replacement pack becomes available to purchase or even lease.

 

[smkettner]

See your OWNER’S MANUAL for important tips on how to maximize the life and capacity of the “Lithium-ion battery.”

This is the reading that will clarify the exceptions and explain best practices on charging.

The warranty is just what I expected. No worries here.

 

[charlie1300]

I voted yes because if I don't have a certain level of confidence in the battery pack lasting 6-8 years of useful life, I will lease. The warranty is not my only factor - 12V car batteries have a pretty weak warranty, but we have an experience factor that leads us to be pretty confident they will last 5 or more years. Being a proud member of the "forgotten 36" , I have some time to think about the battery back.

 

[DaveEV]

These confuse me. I thought you didn't have to let the pack go to zero before charging. And what is continuous 100% charging.

Continuous 100% charging....I'm reading that to mean if you persist in charging a battery that has not been substantially discharged.

The quick reference guide indicates that this means to continuously plug in your car to recharge when it's already 98-100% charged. I assume that the car will allow the battery to self-discharge to some level below 98% if left to sit for some time while plugged in.

Like others have said - no big deal. Just don't charge it to 100% unless you know you need 100% charge the next day. The charge timer settings make this easy to do in the car and I'm sure you'll be able to do this from your phone as well in case your plans change and you're not next to the car.

 

[EVDRIVER]

But this makes no sense. I thought the whole point was to wake up with a 100% (or 90 whatever) charge.

If I have to wait until it gets down to 20% that will just make me stranded somewhere and not be able to go to work.

It all boils down to properly mapping your commute per day. Remember that you always plug it at work for a few hours if you need an additional boost to get you home.

I'm sorry - but you're really confusing alot of people here and spreading discontent.

I was specifically told during all three of the Ride n Drive events that you don't need to deplete your battery in order to charge. You can charge at 80% 60% 20% - it doesn't matter.

And now you're saying that we should only charge when the car tells us to. I'm sorry but that makes no sense at all.

I am not saying what you should or shouldn't do. I am simply repeating the answers I was given when I raised the same concerns. There is a 36 mon lease option if you are convinced that the car is not going to last. Nissan is taking on a lot of risk and tips on prolonging any re-chargeable battery life are exactly what they are: Tips.
I do not think that Nissan will allow the Leaf to fail. The major reason for the Leaf to fail is consumer confidence (lack of it). I will not be surprised in 2 -3 years time, there will be a very affordable replacement pack becomes available to purchase or even lease.[/quote]


Agreed +1

 

[DaveEV]

See your OWNER’S MANUAL for important tips on how to maximize the life and capacity of the “Lithium-ion battery.”

This is the reading that will clarify the exceptions and explain best practices on charging.

The warranty is just what I expected. No worries here.

Yep - I wonder when the owner's manual will leak out now that we have the quick reference and warranty guide...

 

[Jimmydreams]

Don't unplug the car and plug it back in to re-initiate a charge after the car is already charged up. If you did not drive the car, do not unplug it and then plug it right back in. Even if the pack is full the charger will run for some time and if you keep doing it it will over-charge the car and damage the pack.

THAT makes the most sense. If the batteries are at 100%, don't plug the charger in. Anything under 100% (or to be safe, say 95%), then you can plug it it.

Think about it. If EVERY time you plug the car in, the charger provides a charge for a few minutes while it senses the SOC of the battery pack, it probably can cause damage to the pack if the charger is forcing power into an already 100% charged pack....it overloads the batteries. That's how I understand "continuous 100% charging".

 

[EVDRIVER]

Don't unplug the car and plug it back in to re-initiate a charge after the car is already charged up. If you did not drive the car, do not unplug it and then plug it right back in. Even if the pack is full the charger will run for some time and if you keep doing it it will over-charge the car and damage the pack.

THAT makes the most sense. If the batteries are at 100%, don't plug the charger in. Anything under 100% (or to be safe, say 95%), then you can plug it it.

Think about it. If EVERY time you plug the car in, the charger provides a charge for a few minutes while it senses the SOC of the battery pack, it probably can cause damage to the pack if the charger is forcing power into an already 100% charged pack....it overloads the batteries. That's how I understand "continuous 100% charging".

There should be protection in the BMS to avoid battery damage. Even my flooded nicad pack would shut down if this happened and it was far less sensitive. The pack must be dummy proof because people don't pay attention.

 

[cdub]

That makes the most sense. Thank you.

 

[CampbellNelson]

[/quote]
Yep - I wonder when the owner's manual will leak out now that we have the quick reference and warranty guide...[/quote]


I provided these files..did not leak them I will do the same when I get the pdf for the owner's manual

 

[DaveEV]

I provided these files..did not leak them I will do the same when I get the pdf for the owner's manual

And I thank you very much for that.