The Battery Replacement Thread

[mksE55]

Now this was funny. I was waiting on the battery swap, and today , The service rep called , said they had a slight delay, he was told it was in Dallas and would ship that day, EXCEPT it would not fit on any truck ups or Fedex had. so a Large Ground delivery company shipped it down the next day (thru). said the box as as big as the CAR and had all this protect pad and kits to setup for the battery swap. SO maybe Sat. but at least they did get me a rental car for a few days. then today Nissan Customer Care called and checked in with about how things are going and gave me a case # , Kinda weird they are NOW worried how I am doing.

well , Happy to get a new battery.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...Last month I got the Leaf App. and today it read after 100% charge cycle:
miles 25745, State: AZ Climate: HOT
94.8% SOC
14.0 kWh
93.8 F max
180 GIDs (64.1%)- this is a lot lower than 70% loss.

Thoughts? Does this seem reasonable to lose 3 bars in two years, and the 4 after another 11 months? My driving is the same- in fact, the last 11 months I needed to charge to 100% to even make my daily commute, and stopped using ECO mode since I couldn't tell a difference in range.

Thanks!

This does seem reasonable. The first bar is supposed to be 15% capacity and the rest are 6.25% each:
Battery Capacity Bars

So, losing the fourth bar should mean that the capacity is about 66% and that is a good match for your 64% of Gids remaning. IIRC the battery capacity warranty was based on losing four bars, not dropping below "70%" of the original capacity.

As for eleven months to lose the fourth bar, yes that's not a surprise. Even in Phoenix capacity loss should slow way down in winter. So, if you lost the third bar in June you might have lost most of the fourth by October and then relatively little since then until it warmed up in spring.

 

[myleaf]

I am also in AZ and have experienced a similar capacity loss. I suspect the "computer upgrade" that was performed was the P3227 update. (Maybe it was recently reapplied to ensure you meet the warranty requirements).
I was also on track to loose my 4th bar last summer. I had the P3227 update done last July. The update restored a lot of capacity and now 8 months later I am still slightly above the capacity level before the update. There are others in AZ that did not get the update and loss the 9th bar later last summer (tick tock, etc.)

 

[myleaf]

I am also in AZ and have experienced a similar capacity loss. I suspect the "computer upgrade" that was performed was the P3227 update. (Maybe it was recently reapplied to ensure you meet the warranty requirements).
I was also on track to loose my 4th bar last summer. I had the P3227 update done last July. The update restored a lot of capacity and now 8 months later I am still slightly above the capacity level before the update. There are others in AZ that did not get the update and loss the 9th bar later last summer (tick tock, etc.)

Let me correct the above message.

Based on what I gathered from this forum on 4 bar losers that had batteries replaced:
(Everyone correct me if I am wrong)

People who got the software update (around July 2013) having 3 bars and the loss of the 4th bar was delayed:

Ticktock, myleaf (me), scubasandy

People who did not get the software update before loosing the 4th bar:
(most of these are from hot areas and lost the 4th bar at the end of last summer 2013)

phxsmiley, turbo2ltr, mark1313, jhm614

 

[mwalsh]

I am also in AZ and have experienced a similar capacity loss. I suspect the "computer upgrade" that was performed was the P3227 update. (Maybe it was recently reapplied to ensure you meet the warranty requirements).
I was also on track to loose my 4th bar last summer. I had the P3227 update done last July. The update restored a lot of capacity and now 8 months later I am still slightly above the capacity level before the update. There are others in AZ that did not get the update and loss the 9th bar later last summer (tick tock, etc.)

Let me correct the above message.

Based on what I gathered from this forum on 4 bar losers that had batteries replaced:
(Everyone correct me if I am wrong)

People who got the software update (around July 2013) having 3 bars and the loss of the 4th bar was delayed:

Ticktock, myleaf (me), scubasandy

People who did not get the software update before loosing the 4th bar:
(most of these are from hot areas and lost the 4th bar at the end of last summer 2013)

phxsmiley, turbo2ltr, mark1313, jhm614

So what's the takeaway from that...have the update done after the loss of a third bar? Or wait until after the fourth is gone and have the dealer do it as part of the battery replacement qualification process?

I was going to have it done after loosing the third bar, but now I'm not so sure that's the best approach.

 

[danmeljeff]

I had lost my 4th bar prior to getting the update, and continued to show 4 bars lost after the update being applied.

After the update, I feel like I could get a few more miles than prior to the update. However, it could have been due to an increase in temperature and my 4000 mile old tires finally getting broken in. I only had a couple of days to test this prior to my new battery getting installed.

 

[TomT]

If you go and look at the original thread on the P3227 update, many had an increase in range immediately after the update (I did)... However, most if not all of it would go away after about a month once the BMS relearned...

After the update, I feel like I could get a few more miles than prior to the update. However, it could have been due to an increase in temperature and my 4000 mile old tires finally getting broken in. I only had a couple of days to test this prior to my new battery getting installed.

 

[myleaf]

I am also in AZ and have experienced a similar capacity loss. I suspect the "computer upgrade" that was performed was the P3227 update. (Maybe it was recently reapplied to ensure you meet the warranty requirements).
I was also on track to loose my 4th bar last summer. I had the P3227 update done last July. The update restored a lot of capacity and now 8 months later I am still slightly above the capacity level before the update. There are others in AZ that did not get the update and loss the 9th bar later last summer (tick tock, etc.)

Let me correct the above message.

Based on what I gathered from this forum on 4 bar losers that had batteries replaced:
(Everyone correct me if I am wrong)

People who got the software update (around July 2013) having 3 bars and the loss of the 4th bar was delayed:

Ticktock, myleaf (me), scubasandy

People who did not get the software update before loosing the 4th bar:
(most of these are from hot areas and lost the 4th bar at the end of last summer 2013)

phxsmiley, turbo2ltr, mark1313, jhm614

So what's the takeaway from that...have the update done after the loss of a third bar? Or wait until after the fourth is gone and have the dealer do it as part of the battery replacement qualification process?

I was going to have it done after loosing the third bar, but now I'm not so sure that's the best approach.

Leafs seem to respond differently to the update. Some cars get bars restored ticktock (9 ->12) aaeet7w (9 ->12) , most maintain the number of bars myleaf (9 -> 9) danmeljeff (8 ->8). For the Leafs that were at 9 bars before the update, it seems that it may take 10 months or so (in AZ) for the battery capacity to drop to the before update level

My understanding of the "capacity warranty" is that if a Leaf had 8 bars or less before the software update was available, then it would qualify for a replacement battery.
But, after the software update was made available, the requirement was 8 bars AFTER the software update is applied (pls correct me if this is not correct).

I think may have been the problem that aaeet7w initially ran into at the dealer. He was at 8 bars, he took the car into the dealer who applied the software update and his capacity increased to 12 bars, so he was told that he did not qualify for the battery replacement. Only after he worked with NO GAS EV they approved the battery replacement.

So my advice would be that if you are close the the end of the warranty period, do not get the update - because this would delay the falling of the 9th bar.
But I believe the software update is a requirement for the battery warranty (Nissan maybe waiving this requirement)

Dave

 

[mwalsh]

So my advice would be that if you are close the the end of the warranty period, do not get the update - because this would delay the falling of the 9th bar.

I think that's a fair analysis, and pretty much mirrors the scenario that had been playing out in my own mind.

 

[myleaf]

So my advice would be that if you are close the the end of the warranty period, do not get the update - because this would delay the falling of the 9th bar.

I think that's a fair analysis, and pretty much mirrors the scenario that had been playing out in my own mind.

Another possible reason to delay getting the update is that it appears that the application of the update seems to slow down the rate of capacity decrease. Before I got the update, it was very hot and the battery capacity was dropping rapidly. I thought that I would loose the 9th bar in a week or two. After the software update the capacity initially jumped and then seemed to decrease more gradually.

 

[DaveEV]

Another possible reason to delay getting the update is that it appears that the application of the update seems to slow down the rate of capacity decrease. Before I got the update, it was very hot and the battery capacity was dropping rapidly. I thought that I would loose the 9th bar in a week or two. After the software update the capacity initially jumped and then seemed to decrease more gradually.

The pre-update software made the car think it had less capacity than it really did in hot weather and more capacity than it really did in cold weather. Post-update, it is much more accurate, but yes it does have quite a bit of smoothing applied to it.

 

[scubasandy]

So my advice would be that if you are close the the end of the warranty period, do not get the update - because this would delay the falling of the 9th bar.

I think that's a fair analysis, and pretty much mirrors the scenario that had been playing out in my own mind.

This might help- here are stats from the LeafApp of my car the right before and after the upgrade P3227. The upgrade did not change the number of bars showing on my car (8), but it did definitely change the GIDs and % capacity. At least on 'paper'- I got a very low battery warning (turtled?) at 58.7 miles averaging 4.1 miles/KWh- I drive on the freeway to work both ways.

Before: 94.8% SOC (can't seem to get it to go any higher), 93.8F max, 180 GIDS (64.1%)
After: 93.5% SOC, 88.6F max, 206 GIDS (73.3%)

What's your diagnosis?

 

[myleaf]

So my advice would be that if you are close the the end of the warranty period, do not get the update - because this would delay the falling of the 9th bar.

I think that's a fair analysis, and pretty much mirrors the scenario that had been playing out in my own mind.

This might help- here are stats from the LeafApp of my car the right before and after the upgrade P3227. The upgrade did not change the number of bars showing on my car (8), but it did definitely change the GIDs and % capacity. At least on 'paper'- I got a very low battery warning (turtled?) at 58.7 miles averaging 4.1 miles/KWh- I drive on the freeway to work both ways.

Before: 94.8% SOC (can't seem to get it to go any higher), 93.8F max, 180 GIDS (64.1%)
After: 93.5% SOC, 88.6F max, 206 GIDS (73.3%)

What's your diagnosis?

This is similar to what happened to me last summer. I was at 9 bars and after the update I still was at 9 bars but my capacity also did increase.
It has taken me about 10 months to get back to the capacity level before the update.

Tonight my charge was 96.4% SOC 106F max, 190 GIDS (67.6%) 14.7 KWh AHr=43.97 (9 bars)

 

[danmeljeff]

Took my LEAF down to 30 gids yesterday, charged it up over night, and at 100% it now reads 259 gids. We'll see what another few charges does for the gid count.

I've been charging to 80% for the past couple of weeks. I had a few extra miles to drive today, so charged to 100%. My gid count this morning on a full charge was 271. So, perhaps there is hope that the new battery will build up a few gids as the battery cells equalize (or whatever the proper terminology is).

 

[mwalsh]

I've been charging to 80% for the past couple of weeks. I had a few extra miles to drive today, so charged to 100%. My gid count this morning on a full charge was 271. So, perhaps there is hope that the new battery will build up a few gids as the battery cells equalize (or whatever the proper terminology is).

Don't be surprised and/or disappointed if you never get there. Now admittedly, we didn't have the Gidometer until early August of 2011 (so 8 months into ownership of my car), but I didn't see 281 for the first time until early October, and the rest of the time prior the count was bouncing around between 258 and 280.

 

[DaveEV]

Took my LEAF down to 30 gids yesterday, charged it up over night, and at 100% it now reads 259 gids. We'll see what another few charges does for the gid count.

I've been charging to 80% for the past couple of weeks. I had a few extra miles to drive today, so charged to 100%. My gid count this morning on a full charge was 271. So, perhaps there is hope that the new battery will build up a few gids as the battery cells equalize (or whatever the proper terminology is).

What's your GID count on a 80% charge?

 

[danmeljeff]

What's your GID count on a 80% charge?

Just this morning, on an 80% charge, my GID count was at 223.

 

[brettcgb]

Does spirited driving or a prolonged hill climb actually warm up the battery noticeably, or towing? I thought I read somewhere that Car & Driver ran the leaf for 10 miles at close to 90 mph on a track and it didn't "overheat" but I do wonder how warm the pack got. Not that I would ever be able to have that much fun, just wondering

LeafSpy Pro logs suggest that the battery temperature is generally somewhere between 5 and 12 deg F above ambient temperature during routine driving (even freeway driving). DCFC's raise temperatures by about the same amount, but if driving in cool weather, that temperature can come down a little while driving.

I imagine a hill climb (which draws greater power while receiving less cooling) could raise Batt Temp a bit higher.

I expect I'll be going in for a battery replacement in 2-3 weeks. SOH touched 70, but went back to 71 following a DCFC at 100F ambient / 110F Battery. Hx also dropped below 50 briefly, but went back to 50.4 at the same time. The general trend though is that following an upturn in Hx, the falling slope is even steeper. The intersection with Hx=50 vs mileage hasn't changed. ODO=29500 miles.

I've been doing a lot of DCFC in the last 8 weeks - can't be helped.

 

[brettcgb]

Ideally they would charge the new pack with a L3 charger after replacing it which shouldn't take long.

Hmm...I don't think I'd want the first full charge on a brand new pack to be via a QC. I'd want the slowest possible charge with plenty of allowance for balancing.

wouldn't you assume the battery was balanced and charged to 50% at the factory?
I wouldn't want a battery shipped from the factory at a low SOC.

although once the battery pack is in the car it will be top balanced, they could easily L3 charge to 80% and switch to a L2 to 100% and instruct the owner to put it on a L1 charge for the next few days to top balance.

I'd hope the new battery was shipped at 25%<SOC<50%. I'd also expect that the new pack had never been balanced. An L2 charge to 100% would be quite fast enough and still allow for initial balancing.

 

[Stanton]

I'd hope the new battery was shipped at 25%<SOC<50%. I'd also expect that the new pack had never been balanced. An L2 charge to 100% would be quite fast enough and still allow for initial balancing.

It is/was. Not only that, the (dealer) delivery instructions require a charge to 100%; even if the dealer had an L3 EVSE, not all Leafs have a DCQC port.