The 62kWh Battery Topic

[OldManCan]

Integer value from CAN bus=730 (represents HV BATT LEVEL)

Is this the value shown as GIDs in LSPro? If it is not GIDs then where would I find this integer value? Thank you

 

[OldManCan]

Looks like 61 kWh? (175.48 ah x 350.5 v) :shock:
Is all the real capacity unlocked now?

This is the recent picture for me when I charged to 100%. If AHr x V is to be believed then I'm getting (174.88 x 402.94 / 1000) 70.50 kWh which can't be true. Do I need to tweak anything in my LSPro settings?

 

[oxothuk]

This is the recent picture for me when I charged to 100%. If AHr x V is to be believed then I'm getting (174.88 x 402.94 / 1000) 70.50 kWh which can't be true. Do I need to tweak anything in my LSPro settings?

Voltage drops with SOC, so you can't just multiply V*Ahr to get kWh.

 

[OldManCan]

Voltage drops with SOC, so you can't just multiply V*Ahr to get kWh.

Right. I was just referring to earlier post by knightmb on this topic and wondering out loud. The more we get into this the more I realize how clever it was for Tesla to stop publishing or talking about the battery capacity and simply refer to the range in their car models.

 

[danrjones]

This is the recent picture for me when I charged to 100%. If AHr x V is to be believed then I'm getting (174.88 x 402.94 / 1000) 70.50 kWh which can't be true. Do I need to tweak anything in my LSPro settings?

Voltage drops with SOC, so you can't just multiply V*Ahr to get kWh.

So if you know the low and highest pack voltage, can you take the average pack voltage and then multiply by Ahr to get your pack kWh? Or is the voltage non linear in regards to storage, ie, the voltage drops faster per kWh as one SOC versus another?

Because if I take 100.94 Ahr and my Voltage at SOC 49% (close to 50%), my voltage was 351.36, which yields 35.46 kWh. (Mine is a 2018 40 pack)

 

[watchdoc]

Probably a dumb question but how often do you guys record your leafspy results and how often do you balance your pack? I'm trying to come up with a routine.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Probably a dumb question but how often do you guys record your leafspy results and how often do you balance your pack? I'm trying to come up with a routine.

I'm down to once or twice a year for recording, and every three months or so for balancing. Between the stability of these batteries and our not needing the full range, it just isn't necessary for me. Don't obsess over it. If you enjoy it, then that's another matter.

 

[OldManCan]

Probably a dumb question but how often do you guys record your leafspy results and how often do you balance your pack? I'm trying to come up with a routine.

New LEAF owner as well. My plan is to capture monthly snapshots at the end of each month to keep track of trends. As LeftieBiker said, I will try to check my data obsessed nature out the door and just enjoy the car. I will probably capture data each time I go on a longer trip to keep track of trip performance.

Planning to do a full discharge & balance this month and then quarterly from there on.

 

[danrjones]

Probably a dumb question but how often do you guys record your leafspy results and how often do you balance your pack? I'm trying to come up with a routine.

I used to capture leafspy weekly but now just once maybe twice per month or when I'm expecting a three month adjustment.

I never balance the pack. Not purposefully anyway. Nothing in the manual about doing so, I don't think. I'll do a full charge maybe twice a year because I need it.

 

[frontrangeleaf]

Probably a dumb question but how often do you guys record your leafspy results and how often do you balance your pack? I'm trying to come up with a routine.

I used to capture leafspy weekly but now just once maybe twice per month or when I'm expecting a three month adjustment.

I never balance the pack. Not purposefully anyway. Nothing in the manual about doing so, I don't think. I'll do a full charge maybe twice a year because I need it.

Agree. I don't balance the pack intentionally. Haven't needed a full charge in quite a while, not since last winter. Keep it between 20-60% in the summer and 20-80% in the winter, roughly speaking. I don't obsess over a percentage here or there either.

 

[knightmb]

Great info. Is LeafSpy choosing the correct values when you set it up for the model year and battery size? Or is it something one has to manually correct?

I will type it one more time because there is a lot of discussion in this thread comparing battery capacity in kWh (as indicated by Leaf Spy). Those kWh values depend upon the constant that is chosen on the Leaf Spy settings page. I believe the data from the integer value on the CAN bus is called HV BATT LEVEL in the service manuals I have for 2011 and 2015. The integer value from the CAN bus correlates with Wh or kWh with suitable multipliers. It is wrong to suggest that the integer value correlates with Ahr because voltage must be taken into account to compare ampere-hours with watt-hours and the battery voltage varies from full charge to discharge. The HV BATT LEVEL from the CAN bus is not perfectly linear, but it provides a good reference for remaining useable energy.

In regard to the screen images posted by Watchdoc: My 2015 had 1 QC and 4 L1/L2 charges when I picked it up. My 2019 had 1 QC and 6 L1/L2 charges when I picked it up. I did not have a way to read CAN bus information when I purchased the 2011. If your car was at a dealer for a while, they probably plugged it in a few times. Initial readings at 64 miles for my 2019 were:
AHr=175.15
SOH=99.29%
Hx=98.19%
V=376.50

After first full charge at 189 miles:
AHr=174.99
SOH=99.20%
Hx=98.95%
V=399.44
QC=1
L1/L2=7
Integer value from CAN bus=730 (represents HV BATT LEVEL)
730*65=47.45 kWh
730*75=54.75 kWh
730*77.5=56.575 kWh
730*80=58.40 kWh
This shows how much difference the multiplier chosen in Leaf Spy settings can make to the displayed kWh.

 

[GerryAZ]

Integer value from CAN bus=730 (represents HV BATT LEVEL)

Is this the value shown as GIDs in LSPro? If it is not GIDs then where would I find this integer value? Thank you

Yes, the integer value is what is shown as GIDs in Leaf Spy Pro. There are some forum users who don't like the term "GID" because it is not an official reference from Nissan.

In answer to Knightmb's question: I believe the latest version of Leaf Spy Pro has 77.5 as the default multiplier value.

In answer to Watchdoc's question: I have an Android device (prepaid phone which was never activated) that runs Leaf Spy whenever I drive the car. I let it record trip data automatically so I can look for specific information in the future, if needed. I also record energy from the wall and information from Leaf Spy every charge cycle in an Excel spreadsheet.

 

[lorenfb]

Integer value from CAN bus=730 (represents HV BATT LEVEL)

Is this the value shown as GIDs in LSPro? If it is not GIDs then where would I find this integer value? Thank you

Yes, the integer value is what is shown as GIDs in Leaf Spy Pro. There are some forum users who don't like the term GID because it is not an official reference from Nissan.

In answer to Knightmb's question: I believe the latest version of Leaf Spy Pro has 77.5 as the default multiplier value.

Actually, because there're various "adjustments" (multipliers) over time being made, i.e. it's not as consistent and reliable over time as using Ahr.
As has been stated before, Ahr is an industry standard when measuring battery capacity, irrespective of battery type, i.e. Li Ion, Lead acid, LFP, etc.

 

[GerryAZ]

Ampere-hours is a good measurement for tracking long-term capacity of a battery, but it gives no information regarding level of charge or amount of energy available to use.

 

[lorenfb]

Ampere-hours is a good measurement for tracking long-term capacity of a battery, but it gives no information regarding level of charge or amount of energy available to use.

Actually, using Ahr per mile to estimate range can be useful too. My '13 Leaf has a LeafDD gauge which displays the battery's remaining Ahrs.
Using my typical efficiency of 5 mi/kWh and converting to mi/Ahr (assuming a battery of 400 volts), I can estimate my remaining range quickly
and reliably by using an efficiency of about 2 mi/Ahr.

 

[Marktm]

Actually, using Ahr per mile to estimate range can be useful too. My '13 Leaf has a LeafDD gauge which displays the battery's remaining Ahrs.
Using my typical efficiency of 5 mi/kWh and converting to mi/Ahr (assuming a battery of 400 volts), I can estimate my remaining range quickly
and reliably by using an efficiency of about 2 mi/Ahr.

Ahrs ratings are ingrained in many of us as the "reliable"? measure of energy contained in a new battery to use in the design of energy systems with storage. Of course it can be tracked and estimated as the batteries lose capacity - but I've always relied on actual tests for that information. For all 3 batteries that I've had experience with in my Leafs, I've used the LS Ahrs to determine the loss of range over time at 100% charge. Again, my driving habits determine the available range and for the most part use LS's range estimate with a best guess of the average mi/kWh for the remaining trip.

lorenfb - your comment on the LeafDD prompted me to look more closely at LS's information and found the remaining Ahrs on the "table" screen. It corresponded fairly close to the %SOC - thanks

 

[fester]

Didn't know how to attach an image, but I did at trickle charge to full charge today (from 95% earlier charge) prior to some incoming snow, and since there were questions concerning what the Leaf charge circuit was doing in the last 5%. I monitor my household power with a Brultech GEM and Dashbox, so I just watched the power input to the trickle charger. Basically I saw an avg of 1450 watts to the charger for about two hours, then tapered down to about 600 watts during the next half hour. The charge circuit then waited about 5 minutes then delivered 3 more 15 minutes charges at around 600 watts. With around 5 min wait between these last 3. Your results may vary but that was with my 2022 SV+.
I still have questions about how frequently my 12v is charged, but I think in the next week or so, I'll attach a voltage data logger to the 12v and leave it attached for a week or so. Should give me a good general idea of how the Leaf is handling the 12v. I'll post afterwards...

 

[LeftieBiker]

I look forward to seeing your results the results on the 12 volt battery charging. I checked both our cars' 12 volt battery voltage (also because of the approaching storm and frigid weather), and had to put both of them on the maintainer - the SV+ took almost 10 hours of charge, about 8AH, into that tiny battery - to get to 12.95 volts from 12.24 volts. I picked up a Noco Genius 2 amp maintainer for the sump pump battery, but I think that for the Winter I'll use it for the cars.

 

[Learjet]

Didn't know how to attach an image, but I did at trickle charge to full charge today (from 95% earlier charge) prior to some incoming snow, and since there were questions concerning what the Leaf charge circuit was doing in the last 5%. I monitor my household power with a Brultech GEM and Dashbox, so I just watched the power input to the trickle charger. Basically I saw an avg of 1450 watts to the charger for about two hours, then tapered down to about 600 watts during the next half hour. The charge circuit then waited about 5 minutes then delivered 3 more 15 minutes charges at around 600 watts. With around 5 min wait between these last 3. Your results may vary but that was with my 2022 SV+.
I still have questions about how frequently my 12v is charged, but I think in the next week or so, I'll attach a voltage data logger to the 12v and leave it attached for a week or so. Should give me a good general idea of how the Leaf is handling the 12v. I'll post afterwards...

you should see the 12 volt battery charged:

When charging the traction battery
every 24 hours of non-use the car charges the 12volt for 5 min....not plugged in....not sure what it does plugged in.
normal charge starts at ~14.1-14.6 volts...temp compensated...then drops to float charge of ~13.1 volts...also temp compensated.
Turn the windshield wipers on will change the charge voltage to ~14.1-14.6 as long as the wipers are on.
Unplug the sense wire on the battery current sensor...will charge at 14.1-14.6 volts...but generate a DTC code.

(edit voltage range)

 

[LeftieBiker]

Turn the windshield wipers on will change the charge voltage to 14.1 as long as the wipers are on.

Turning the windshield wipers on will raise the system voltage to 14.1 - 14.6 volts, for about one minute.