The 62kWh Battery Topic

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My local dealer says they will honor the Nissan 3K off if msrp. I may just take my S+ in to see what the "real" offer would be. If I could trade up for 10K or less out of Pocket (with $7500 coming back in tax credit), I might consider it. Any more, and not worth it.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
My local dealer says they will honor the Nissan 3K off if msrp. I may just take my S+ in to see what the "real" offer would be. If I could trade up for 10K or less out of Pocket (with $7500 coming back in tax credit), I might consider it. Any more, and not worth it.

They did mention S/S Plus has no options package? No seat heater, no heated steering wheel?
 
We had aftermarket heated seats put in our S+ for about $500 when it was brand new, they work perfectly.... and we are going to wait till both the Ariya and the Id4 are on lots and then shop the Leaf around see what they offer. We have another year and a bit with full warrantee so that might be the time.
 
Ok, dealer offered 21K for the 2019 S+. With the 3k back from Nissan, total out of pocket was almost exactly 12.5/5K after tax (pre/post tax rebate) to move to a 22 S+.

So close. I pressed for 10K, but it was obvious that was beyond what they could/were willing to do.

5K feels like too much, though I would like the improved safety features on the 21/22 Leaf.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Ok, dealer offered 21K for the 2019 S+. With the 3k back from Nissan, total out of pocket was almost exactly 12.5/5K after tax (pre/post tax rebate) to move to a 22 S+.
Can you post all the numbers, without taxes ? It is always hard to decipher prices when a trade-in is involved.

I was thinking about LEAF this morning. I decided that if I buy another it would be under $20k after tax credit, and either a future 40 kWh pack with CCS or a 62 kWh pack with CHAdeMO.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Ok, dealer offered 21K for the 2019 S+. With the 3k back from Nissan, total out of pocket was almost exactly 12.5/5K after tax (pre/post tax rebate) to move to a 22 S+.

So close. I pressed for 10K, but it was obvious that was beyond what they could/were willing to do.

5K feels like too much, though I would like the improved safety features on the 21/22 Leaf.

Same here but with a twist. I was offered a 2021 SV Plus with tech at $28.5 K. (after fed tax) I had buyout cost on my 2019 S Plus at about $19k, could have sold to Carvana at @$ 23.8 K so could have upgraded to better for about $5k but couldn't make it work. I was ok with the $532 payments for 60 months zero interest but would be getting a lot of features I would not have a lot of interest in so if I am paying an extra $5K, I need more range or better interior spacing and the deal didn't provide either.

So, the likelihood of my buying out my S Plus and holding it a year or two has notched up a few more %. Lets see how the Ariya's are dealing mid year 2023 when the last of the max fed credits are still ripe for the taking.
 
Sage, price before credits after destination was 34,173.60

-3K nissan
-7500 tax credit

Made the price feel like 24K

- 21K trade in for 2019 S+
+2K sales taxes and title

=~5K the "feel like"

The out of pocket was $12,583.93 at the dealer was to be exact.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Sage, price before credits after destination was 34,173.60

-3K nissan
-7500 tax credit

Made the price feel like 24K

- 21K trade in for 2019 S+
+2K sales taxes and title

=~5K the "feel like"

The out of pocket was $12,583.93 at the dealer was to be exact.
Thanks. Was this for the 2022 SV+ ?

34,173 - 7,500 - 3,000 = $23,673 + taxes for the SV+ sounds reasonable if other fees are not tacked on. Was that price available without a trade-in ? If so, you could check out Carvana et al.
 
2022 S+ it was msrp Plus destination...not sure if a couple small options or not.

Separately, a reddit user posted that Nissan is offering upgrades to 62kwh batteries on 30 warranty replacements.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/p3wev2/16_leaf_sv_40_or_62/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
2022 S+ it was msrp Plus destination...not sure if a couple small options or not.

Separately, a reddit user posted that Nissan is offering upgrades to 62kwh batteries on 30 warranty replacements.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leaf/comments/p3wev2/16_leaf_sv_40_or_62/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

$1200?? wow that reeks!
 
Ok, back to LS and whether it's accurate or not.

I had a 25 mile each way drive on the highway today. On the way out, LS energy usage, car pre/post energy, trip log and car efficiency meter were relatively aligned.

At home after returning, the energy usage in the LS trip meter and counter read 6kWh, but when calculating prior energy against the energy remaining there was an extra ~.5 kWh (suggesting 5.5 kWh used). According to LS, trip economy was 4.2 and according to the dash, it was 5. If you include the extra .5 kWh it didn't quite bring it to dash economy, but it was much closer. I have seen LS roll back the counter when regenning, so I don't know if it just isn't accurate or what. Another idea is that for draw on the 12V, it's just an approximation and could be guessing high?? This is the second time I have seen this type of discrepancy, and curious if others have witnessed the same. Both times I had more energy left than I should have per LS. I would love to believe it's a secret BMS reserve, but find that doubtful.

Thank you
 
Reading more diatribes on line about how the Leaf battery longevity sucks... (arstechnica comments section today) - it's taken as common knowledge apparently, and broadly (perhaps sloppily) applied to every Leaf ever made.

OK, there were some bad experiences out there, mostly in the early models in high heat markets. Beginning with the "lizard" battery, things improved markedly as I understand matters.

What I've been seeing here for the gen2 Leaf is mostly in line with other manufacturer's TMS-equipped batteries, as far as I can see. Meaning the 40kWh and especially the 62kWh battery seem to have no untoward battery life issues. No?

Our battery has never showed any kind of high heat issues, even on a very hot day, given our (modest) driving habits.

Am I missing something?
 
frontrangeleaf said:
What I've been seeing here for the gen2 Leaf is mostly in line with other manufacturer's TMS-equipped batteries, as far as I can see. Meaning the 40kWh and especially the 62kWh battery seem to have no untoward battery life issues. No?

Our battery has never showed any kind of high heat issues, even on a very hot day, given our (modest) driving habits.

Am I missing something?

While it appears (so far) the 2018's and onward have done BETTER, I don't think they are in line with other vehicles.
I'm down close to 13% at 2.3 years and just over 10k miles. I doubt you'd find too many Bolts (?) or Tesla's at that state.
The graphs I have seen (one below) put Tesla around 95%.

https://electrek.co/2020/06/06/tesla-battery-degradation-replacement/
 
frontrangeleaf said:
Reading more diatribes on line about how the Leaf battery longevity sucks... (arstechnica comments section today) - it's taken as common knowledge apparently, and broadly (perhaps sloppily) applied to every Leaf ever made.

OK, there were some bad experiences out there, mostly in the early models in high heat markets. Beginning with the "lizard" battery, things improved markedly as I understand matters.
Yes, but hot climates still are murder on the "lizard" packs like https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=545757#p545757.

It also doesn't help that some people seemed to charge to 100% and leave them there, even in super mild climates like city of SF.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=31297 and https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=587652#p587652 ignored or somehow didn't know about best practices. If you're unfamiliar w/Bay Area microclimates, see https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=606051#p606051.

It also doesn't help that Nissan removed the 80% limiter on US Leafs starting w/model year '14 and it has never returned.
frontrangeleaf said:
What I've been seeing here for the gen2 Leaf is mostly in line with other manufacturer's TMS-equipped batteries, as far as I can see. Meaning the 40kWh and especially the 62kWh battery seem to have no untoward battery life issues. No?

Our battery has never showed any kind of high heat issues, even on a very hot day, given our (modest) driving habits.

Am I missing something?
Don't know. 62 kWh battery is too new. 40 kWh is seems to be holding up well. I only recently heard of 1 bar loss on a 40 kWh Leaf.

What is a "hot day" for you? This person in blazing hot Phoenix had the same build month of Leaf as mine (already an improved chemistry but not as good as the "lizard" pack): https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995. Mine when I sold at in June 2021 at 68K miles still had 11 capacity bars but Leaf Spy SOH was around 78 or 79%, so it was soon to be a 2 bar loser.

You haven't had your car long... Leafs are subject to rapidgate if doing multiple DC FCs in a day, esp. the 40 kWh cars.

If you care, I had to give powersurge a history lesson that I pointed to at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=536833#p536833 as he had a history of posting terrible "advice".
 
A few on the Tesla forum have posted the TeslaFi data showing the model 3 averages down about 7-8% after 25K miles. So you could certainly squint and say for the 12k+ a year drivers of the 2018+ Leaf that feels pretty similar. Short of Nissan, Tesla, and GM opening their data vaults, not sure we will know the actual score. As time moves on, it feels like more 2018+ Leaf are down low double digits than M3s reporting the same, but it's all very anecdotal.

Bolt batteries may in fact be holding up the best per some of the shorter term 3rd party studies. Now that doesn't keep you from having a fire, but can't have it all. They do have a lower C charge rate than either Tesla or Leaf Plus, which could partially explain the reduced loss.
 
A hot day for us is in the 90's to the low 100's. I think the hottest ever recorded in Denver area is 105. Nowadays we see about 40 days/year above 90, but the nights are cool (50's and 60's in summer), and we usually park the Leaf+ outside overnight.

We have never DCFC, nor even charged away from home - this car is an urban corridor runabout for us. Minimal highway miles, mostly commuting and errands, visiting friends and family, etc. (We have other vehicles to cover our other transportation needs. None get driven very far, so I'm less concerned with our carbon footprint.)

We typically keep the Leaf+ between 20-80% SoC. Have only rarely charged to 100, and then not on a hot day, that's more a winter thing. I have never seen the battery temp read above the middle of the scale, although in the dead of winter, I've seen it in the bottom third.

Given our use case and driving/charging habits, this should be a low risk vehicle purchase. We were able to take advantage of the generous Colorado incentives in 2019, receiving ~40% off of purchase price, which helps. We did buy dedicated 17" wheels and snow tires, as we run snows on all of our year-round cars, and I wanted to explore the range hit driving with my preferred set up. It's quite reasonable, turns out.

I haven't invested in Leaf Spy or a dongle. I know that would give more data, but I'm satisfied watching folks here report on their experience for now.
 
frontrangeleaf said:
A hot day for us is in the 90's to the low 100's. I think the hottest ever recorded in Denver area is 105. Nowadays we see about 40 days/year above 90, but the nights are cool (50's and 60's in summer), and we usually park the Leaf+ outside overnight.
Compare that to blazing hot temps in AZ like https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802&p=307296&hilit=phoenician+friend#p307296.

Google for these:
phoenix weather
phoenix average temps

Then, repeat for Denver/your city.

Right now, at 9 pm Pacific time, it is 94 F in Phoenix. The forecasted low for Mon is/was 80 F. For Tuesday, it is 78 F, with a high of 97 F.
 
It is about time for me to post another summary of my full discharge/recharge tests. The 62 kWh battery is doing OK--charging energy from the wall from dead to full charge is 93 percent of original after two years and 35,000 miles in the Phoenix, AZ climate. The lower number of miles driven for the August 7, 2021 charge is because I was running the air conditioning for extended time in the driveway so a friend and her pets could stay cool and watch while I worked on her vehicle. The last 90-day adjustment yielded a slight drop in AHr and SOH.
LEAF 2019 Battery Information 4.jpg
 
Similar data report for my 2021 SV Plus. Appears faster (time & miles) degradation than Gary's. It has been summer here in Houston, TX, but it is garage kept, very seldom left in sun, battery temps in the low 80's and gently charged (not one QC):

Batter log 8.20.21.jpg
 
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