danrjones
Well-known member
To me "visionary" is when Space-X puts the first manned EV (Rover) on mars. Let's just hope it doesn't leak as bad as some of the Model Ys I have seen on YouTube.
DougWantsALeaf said:does your car ever see even 6 bars during this time of year?
SageBrush said:Few people who spend $100k on a car (or even a measly $50k) are inclined to spend an hour at a charger for every hour they drive. Without a supercharging network the only solution for a Nissan is to fit the car with a large battery. Moreover, Nissan has never approached Tesla in highway speed Wh/mile efficiency. Put those two things together and an 80 kWh pack for Nissan is on the puny side.jlsoaz said:On the numbers you try to provide, I don't think it's necessary to suppose 80 kWh in 2010. Tesla only had about 50 kWh in 2008, right? and they came out with 40/60/85 in 2012.
SageBrush said:[....]
Last point: I read your monologues as saying the following: Nissan should have built a general purpose EV at prices middle America could afford and taken whatever losses came along with the decision for as long as it takes.
The short answer is that Nissan is not Tesla. No Elon Musk. No JB Straubel. No Supercharger network. No industry cooperation agreement with Prof. Dahn. No industry leading motor R&D. No industry leading battery R&D. No SpaceX tie-in. Way different consumer demographics. Way different stockholder views. The list goes on and on ...jlsoaz said:Why go so far out of your way to assume that Nissan could not have also committed itself to faster-paced better-attitude innovation in batteries, efficiency and all other areas and made the progress that would have allowed it to compete in other segments sooner than it has?
goldbrick said:As much as I love my Leaf the TCO thing has a way to go I think. It's not hard to find a reliable ICE vehicle around here for $2k. I do my own maintenance as do many others. Even with the 'free' charging I get at work my ICE vehicles are still lower in TCO than the Leaf, excluding the $22.5k in rebates and credits I got when I bought the car, of course :mrgreen:
alozzy said:Or you could adopt the more cynical view that conventional automotive manufacturers wish they could go back to the good old days when Tesla wasn't a thorn in their sides and making EVs was just a convenient means to achieving EPA compliance (in as few markets as possible and with zero marketing effort to promote them).
The entire industry knew that R&D into EV technology could drastically reduce emissions, but they colluded to make sure that that R&D didn't happen, because they didn't want to make less profitable EVs nor upset their oil industry buddies. It's a long road to EV profitability, with big E&D capital costs to get there - why bother, when ICE cars are more profitable.
Thanks to Elon Musk and Tesla for disrupting the entire industry, consumers are slowly realizing that EVs are better technology and have a lower TCO. Without Tesla, mass adoption of EVs would never have happened. It's still an uphill battle, thanks to the Trump Administration and a paper tiger EPA.
I more or less agree with this. Say what one will about all of the pros/cons/warts of Tesla Musk, but they (and a few others, to be sure, but with Tesla taking the lead for the most part) had not been there we would still be sitting around having inane conversations about whether 90 miles of range should be good enough for most people, and listening to condescending nonsense that buyers have not taken the trouble to understand better how markets work.... basically MBAs ignoring and disrespecting a portion of their customers who think they might be able to find a better product. Tesla/Musk/et. al. allowed those disrespected customers to have a different path than listening to that nonsense.alozzy said:[...
Thanks to Elon Musk and Tesla for disrupting the entire industry,
No noise -- no fanDougWantsALeaf said:Board,
I just ran across another Facebook Leaf thread where some one (this case in Ireland) insists the 62 Leaf has a fan somewhere for the battery, and that it is just incredibly ineffective.
Anyone else know of a fan ostensibly for battery cooling...coolingish?
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