The 62kWh Battery Topic

[LeftieBiker]

Thanks for the eyeball comparison. I like an interior that is 'cluttered' enough that I don't have to select menu options to turn on accessories that I use a lot, but not so cluttered that I can't learn the function of everything within a month.

 

[salyavin]

Indeed I don't want to crash my car messing around with the screen when I want to change my wiper speed manually. That aspect of Tesla drives me crazy. Wipers, lights, AC/Heating temp and fan , volume (in case of sudden volume change) are a few things I'd like physical buttons for I can learn the location off so I don't crash. I really think that is an unsafe design. The tablet itself is fine and having a huge number of features in the tablet is also fine. We just need some basic features in switches you can feel so you can keep looking at the road.

 

[jlsoaz]

Indeed I don't want to crash my car messing around with the screen when I want to change my wiper speed manually. That aspect of Tesla drives me crazy. Wipers, lights, AC/Heating temp and fan , volume (in case of sudden volume change) are a few things I'd like physical buttons for I can learn the location off so I don't crash. I really think that is an unsafe design. The tablet itself is fine and having a huge number of features in the tablet is also fine. We just need some basic features in switches you can feel so you can keep looking at the road.

I haven't tried a car that removes many of the buttons yet, but preliminarily I'm in agreement with you. I read a Polestar 2 review today which looked at this difference with the Tesla.

 

[GRA]

Indeed I don't want to crash my car messing around with the screen when I want to change my wiper speed manually. That aspect of Tesla drives me crazy. Wipers, lights, AC/Heating temp and fan , volume (in case of sudden volume change) are a few things I'd like physical buttons for I can learn the location off so I don't crash. I really think that is an unsafe design. The tablet itself is fine and having a huge number of features in the tablet is also fine. We just need some basic features in switches you can feel so you can keep looking at the road.

This is one of the reasons I ruled the Model 3/Y off my list. Any control I need to use while driving the car shouldn't take more than a fraction of a second's glance away from the road to use, and that should only be needed to confirm a selection, not to locate or operate the control itself. Ideally, I shouldn't have to take my eyes off the road at all, if each switch can be identified by location and feel, and the confirmation of the selection, e.g. wiper/fan speed, high/low beams or radio volume, is obvious.

 

[jlsoaz]

Indeed I don't want to crash my car messing around with the screen when I want to change my wiper speed manually. That aspect of Tesla drives me crazy. Wipers, lights, AC/Heating temp and fan , volume (in case of sudden volume change) are a few things I'd like physical buttons for I can learn the location off so I don't crash. I really think that is an unsafe design. The tablet itself is fine and having a huge number of features in the tablet is also fine. We just need some basic features in switches you can feel so you can keep looking at the road.

I haven't tried a car that removes many of the buttons yet, but preliminarily I'm in agreement with you. I read a Polestar 2 review today which looked at this difference with the Tesla.

actually, come to think of it, there is a decent dose of touch-screen in my Volt, and I'm not liking it that much.

 

[webeleafowners]

I get that. But keep in mind that wipers are on the left stock (or automatic or voice control) volume or mute or track is on the left rolly wheel on the steering wheel and pretty much everything else is voice control (except the glove compartment). The voice recognition is excellent in a tesla and has never failed us.

Just a little context.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I get that. But keep in mind that wipers are on the left stock (or automatic or voice control) volume or mute or track is on the left rolly wheel on the steering wheel and pretty much everything else is voice control (except the glove compartment). The voice recognition is excellent in a tesla and has never failed us.

Just a little context.

having used voice control for cars, phones, appointments, etc. they do work well when the responses are limited so I will give you that but I still prefer both. Nice to be able to turn on a wiper w/o interrupting a conversation or even not turn on a wiper when in a conversation.

In time, you car will simply learn how you like things and offer these services as you need them with nothing required of you but a mere "ok, sounds good"

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I would like it if the automatic windshield wipers became standard. I accidentally got a land rover for a rental once (last car they had), which had the feature, and it was real nice. More then a few flecks of rain, and poof auto wipe, no action required.

 

[webeleafowners]

I get that. But keep in mind that wipers are on the left stock (or automatic or voice control) volume or mute or track is on the left rolly wheel on the steering wheel and pretty much everything else is voice control (except the glove compartment). The voice recognition is excellent in a tesla and has never failed us.

Just a little context.

having used voice control for cars, phones, appointments, etc. they do work well when the responses are limited so I will give you that but I still prefer both. Nice to be able to turn on a wiper w/o interrupting a conversation or even not turn on a wiper when in a conversation.

In time, you car will simply learn how you like things and offer these services as you need them with nothing required of you but a mere "ok, sounds good"

I find most things one needs on a model three is just one keystroke but it takes awhile to get used to not having positive feedback on the fingers. On the leaf you just hit the AC switch and you can physically feel the click. In the Tesla it’s a soft switch that you are never sure if you actually hit it...until it comes on. There is an adaptation period for sure. For the most part one doesn’t need to access the screen much and the important stuff is easy to see. The leaf was a friendly environment though. Still miss it. If we had a two car garage we might have kept it...or not. It just didn’t get used much and was too nice of a car to just sit and depreciate. The new owners love it.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

webleafowners, do you find you can easily reach the 320 range on your LR M3? I have been reading up in the Tesla forums, and most advice seems to suggest something closer to about 260 miles (though a few say they easily achieve the epa range)?

How has the rated range held up for you?

(One group was pretty adamant that the SR+ should only be counted on for 150-160 miles of range, which felt a little harsh. The Bjorn test suggested about 240 miles of range at 90kph..or about 55mph)

 

[SageBrush]

webleafowners, do you find you can easily reach the 320 range on your LR M3? I have been reading up in the Tesla forums, and most advice seems to suggest something closer to about 260 miles (though a few say they easily achieve the epa range)?

How has the rated range held up for you?

(One group was pretty adamant that the SR+ should only be counted on for 150-160 miles of range, which felt a little harsh. The Bjorn test suggested about 240 miles of range at 90kph..or about 55mph)

This is not complicated. If the environmental conditions and driving behavior match the EPA test, the person sees EPA numbers.
A better question would be percent of EPA in the LEAF Vs another EV by the same driver, same routes, and same conditions. This might be different if the cars have different cold weather capabilities since the EPA testing probably needs to be tweaked to better reflect average winter conditions and driver behavior.

That said, the Model Y and Model 3 have the same EPA results even though the Model Y has a larger frontal area and lower Cd. It makes up for it with its heat pump, so the EPA testing does take the winter into account in their own special way. YMMV

 

[LeftieBiker]

That said, the Model Y and Model 3 have the same EPA results even though the Model Y has a larger frontal area and lower Cd. It makes up for it with its heat pump, so the EPA testing does take the winter into account. YMMV

That would mean a better no-heat range for the Model 3. The EPA really needs to do Summer/Winter numbers.

 

[SageBrush]

That said, the Model Y and Model 3 have the same EPA results even though the Model Y has a larger frontal area and lower Cd. It makes up for it with its heat pump, so the EPA testing does take the winter into account. YMMV

That would mean a better no-heat range for the Model 3. The EPA really needs to do Summer/Winter numbers.

It would, and it does. That is why I mentioned the Aero difference.

I've been in favor of winter/summer results for years. The EPA (let alone the car industry) has not been inclined.
Sometimes you can tease out the winter and summer results if the testing was by the 5 (?) cycle method. That is not usually the case though; the manufacturers prefer the 2 cycle test + fudge factor calc.

 

[webeleafowners]

So Doug the answer is yes, 500 ish kilometers on a charge is doable on a charge for us. But here is some context. We had NO PROBLEM achieving 170 plus kilometers of range in a 4 year old 2016 30 KWH Leaf SV. And here is why.

We live in the Okanagan Valley of BC. The fastest speed limit here is 100 kmph...and that’s rare. It’s a beautiful 250 km long valley surrounded by mountains and lakes and literally hundreds of world class vineyards. Many of the “highways” are limited to 80 kmh as there are dozens of small towns along the way. Some long stretches of 90 kmh but for the most part SLOOOOWWWWW and easy going. I don’t know how it compares to EPA conditions but I bet it’s close.

So yes. No problem with EPA ish numbers. Now, when this damn COVID thing is over and we start driving back and fourth to California on I5 at 120 kmh I’ll give you an update...but my guess is we’ll be somewhat off the EPA numbers.

Hope that helps Doug.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

That does, thanks.

My record in our 24kWh leaf was 120 miles or almost 200km, so I am with you on getting the most out of a charge...though occasionally have to give it a little extra "gas". (My S+ is sitting with 222 miles of (Leaf GOM)range on 68% battery as I type).

You make me hopeful that a LR could maybe even muster 550-600KM with a gentle foot on 80kph sort of roads.

 

[webeleafowners]

That does, thanks.

My record in our 24kWh leaf was 120 miles or almost 200km, so I am with you on getting the most out of a charge...though occasionally have to give it a little extra "gas". (My S+ is sitting with 222 miles of (Leaf GOM)range on 68% battery as I type).

You make me hopeful that a LR could maybe even muster 550-600KM with a gentle foot on 80kph sort of roads.

Yah I wouldn’t doubt it Doug. 550 anyway in our valley conditions. It’s kind of relaxing really and it’s easy to get used to. And then every once in a while a trip to Vancouver over the Coquihalla pass summit at like 1250 meters and 130 kmh brings one back to reality. . Fun highway. . Gas mileage in our old Jeep Grand Cherokee would drop to a third of normal. . Woohoo. EPA numbers are but a dream then.

 

[jlv]

As long as the Ariya has excellent build quality, and the Model Y continues to have glaring build quality issues, the Ariya will sell well enough. No one wants a brand new $50k car that looks like it was wrecked and then put back together with used parts.

The three people I know who have picked up Ys in the last 6 weeks have reported nothing like the oft cited quality issues. But then I remember the similar list of issues often cited here about the 3s back when they were introduced.
(que cwerdna to post 12 links to TMC)

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I am sure quality is improving daily. Many love their Y, though I personally don't like how it looks.

 

[SageBrush]

yes, 500 ish kilometers on a charge is doable on a charge for us. But here is some context. We had NO PROBLEM achieving 170 plus kilometers of range in a 4 year old 2016 30 KWH Leaf SV.

Then your 30 kWh LEAF went about 1/3 as far as your Model 3.

Does your Model 3 have 3x the battery size ?

 

[webeleafowners]

yes, 500 ish kilometers on a charge is doable on a charge for us. But here is some context. We had NO PROBLEM achieving 170 plus kilometers of range in a 4 year old 2016 30 KWH Leaf SV.

Then your 30 kWh LEAF went about 1/3 as far as your Model 3.

Does your Model 3 have 3x the battery size ?

No idea. I have read that an AWD 3 is somewhere around 75 KWH but not sure if the source Is accurate.

My point is that EPA numbers are easy to achieve where we live as a result of driving conditions. We haven’t been in a Real range testing situation with the 3 as we tend to stop at least once every 3 hours for a pee or eat break and we always supercharge it’s Chademo charge when we do. But from what I can tell in the conditions we normally drive in achieving EPA numbers with the model 3 or the leaf would be pretty easy.