The 40KWH Battery Topic

[DaveinOlyWA]

Very little Leaf2 data, e.g. over 25K miles per vehicle, relative to Leaf1 data have been reported.

Odometer readings have yet to show any correlation to anything other than miles traveled by any of the Leaf packs.

Agreed. Which brings us right back to where we started on this. Time is by far the largest factor at this point.

The data "here" is rather limited but I have collected data from several other sources and there is so little variance. My low water mark was 88% SOH on a car that has already exceeded 50,000 miles as of last November. But we also have another at 40,000 miles who is at 91% along with the several dozen at 91% with 9,000 to 30,000 miles.

So if we take out the low guy and two of the people still over 95% (and more than a year old) the rest fall between 90 to 93% and they pretty much cover most of the US and Europe.

Now we obviously have more outliers but we are limited by the small sampling available on Social media. The greatest group is people w/o LEAF Spy who generally don't come close to the max range of the car who claim no loss at all which is essentially not possible.

 

[danrjones]

I was wondering the same thing. you get so much advice on here: Charge to 80%, only charge to 45%, don't fast charge, AC your garage, etc... who knows what really matters, if anything at all.

Cooling my garage was an experiment. It largely failed, although since I also have a scooter with Canary pack batteries I'll likely keep doing it for that reason. I run the window A/C a few hours a night in hot weather, on a timer.

I was not making fun of the advice. In fact cooling and charging to 80% max are good advice based on previous knowledge of batteries, especially Nissan's.

What IS strange is that this good advice seems to amount to nothing. That's the odd part.

In general I agree more data is needed.
It is also possible Nissan has rigged the system and we are not seeing the real impacts of heat and mileage. Until people start loosing bars I wouldn't draw a conclusion one way or another.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I was wondering the same thing. you get so much advice on here: Charge to 80%, only charge to 45%, don't fast charge, AC your garage, etc... who knows what really matters, if anything at all.

Cooling my garage was an experiment. It largely failed, although since I also have a scooter with Canary pack batteries I'll likely keep doing it for that reason. I run the window A/C a few hours a night in hot weather, on a timer.

I was not making fun of the advice. In fact cooling and charging to 80% max are good advice based on previous knowledge of batteries, especially Nissan's.

What IS strange is that this good advice seems to amount to nothing. That's the odd part.

In general I agree more data is needed.
It is also possible Nissan has rigged the system and we are not seeing the real impacts of heat and mileage. Until people start loosing bars I wouldn't draw a conclusion one way or another.

I think in Leftie's case we do have a situation of too little time along with the seeming "standard" that 40 kwh packs loose their 6-8% in the first year. The latter I see as all but unavoidable. There is "one" car that was still in the 96's approaching a year (more than 2% higher than anyone else) but haven't seen anything from him in nearly 6 months. Its my guess he has joined the pack and no longer feels likes its "brag worthy"

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

In the data I can find on the Bolt, it also seems to follow the same pattern, 8% after a year and 1/2 give or take. What is very hard to tell is the rate of decline on the Tesla batteries. I know there is an app out there now that supposedly gives you the actual battery capacity. From some single you tube points of data, it looks like Tesla's lose only about 5% in the first year, so a bit better. Now some of that may be due to a larger pack. 75 vs. 60/66 for the Bolt. GOM and dash readings which are often cited are very much meaningless. Even at 11 bars in my old 13 Leaf, my GOM was often above the EPA 84 miles of range.

 

[danrjones]

GOM was often above the EPA 84 miles of range.

I also think range from person to person is meaningless as a comparison tool for degredation. In town almost any EV has more range than I'll ever possibly need. On the open highway my leaf goes maybe 100 miles. Everyone drives different, at different speeds, in different terrain.

I've been comparing mine against ABRP estimate. That at least gives me a baseline for the route including speed and terrain. If I take the same route and over time get poorer results that might be useful data. But I do not do much in the way of road trips.

 

[lorenfb]

The data "here" is rather limited but I have collected data from several other sources and there is so little variance. My low water mark was 88% SOH on a car that has already exceeded 50,000 miles as of last November. But we also have another at 40,000 miles who is at 91% along with the several dozen at 91% with 9,000 to 30,000 miles.

Laughable data! And the inference is what?

 

[lorenfb]

Very little Leaf2 data, e.g. over 25K miles per vehicle, relative to Leaf1 data have been reported.

Odometer readings have yet to show any correlation to anything other than miles traveled by any of the Leaf packs.

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=581125#p581125
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=580805#p580805
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25773&start=680#p580762

 

[LeftieBiker]

Very little Leaf2 data, e.g. over 25K miles per vehicle, relative to Leaf1 data have been reported.

Odometer readings have yet to show any correlation to anything other than miles traveled by any of the Leaf packs.

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=581125#p581125
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=580805#p580805
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25773&start=680#p580762

You just posted three links to posts that have nothing to do with odometer mileage vs degradation. Please don't waste my time like that.

 

[lorenfb]

Odometer readings have yet to show any correlation to anything other than miles traveled by any of the Leaf packs.

https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=581125#p581125
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=580805#p580805
https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25773&start=680#p580762

You just posted three links to posts that have nothing to do with odometer mileage vs degradation. Please don't waste my time like that.

You missed the point, i.e. I indicated a number of times that time is a major factor! Besides, mileage is typically correlated with time.

 

[LeftieBiker]

No, it isn't, other than loosely. I didn't miss the point. You didn't make one.

 

[lorenfb]

No, it isn't, other than loosely. I didn't miss the point. You didn't make one.

Bottom Line: A total waste of time to infer any degradation implication to the Leaf2 batteries, and to attempt any correlation
to the Leaf1 batteries, which have been extensively evaluated over the last 8-10 years, at this point in time,

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Interesting article basically showing improvement that can be had with lower unsprung weight on Tesla. Anyone see any aftermarket super light rims for the Leaf? If 10% range could be had, for cross country runs, it might be worth the investment.

https://insideevs.com/news/405659/video-tesla-model-3-range-18-wheels/

 

[GerryAZ]

Interesting article basically showing improvement that can be had with lower unsprung weight on Tesla. Anyone see any aftermarket super light rims for the Leaf? If 10% range could be had, for cross country runs, it might be worth the investment.

https://insideevs.com/news/405659/video-tesla-model-3-range-18-wheels/

Increased efficiency is due to narrow tires and possibly different overall diameter. There are several threads from 2011 or 2012 about lightweight rims and tires on LEAFs. Reduction of rotating mass will help efficiency in stop/go driving, but has negligible impact at steady highway speed. Narrow tires have less rolling resistance (and less dry traction) compared to wide tires of the same type so they will improve efficiency at expense of traction.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Gerry is right. There is no real relationship between unsprung weight and energy economy. Even in stop & go driving the difference is trivial.

 

[jmurtagh13]

Two years and one month with an upward correction of +0.38%. Giving me an increase in battery health over the last year of +0.03%
I've had 2 other upward corrections, last one being on 10/13/2019. Since March of last year the battery degradation has been fairly flat.
I keep the charge between 30 and 70%, Charge only at home and charge early morning when the battery is cooler. I'm at 18,400 miles.

....Date.......SOH.......HX......AH.....Chg
03/09/2018 99.10 98.86 115.00
07/14/2018 97.13 111.58 112.13 -1.97
09/21/2018 96.15 111.74 111.00 -0.98
10/18/2018 94.91 112.07 109.56 -1.24
12/31/2018 94.77 111.47 109.40 -0.14
01/15/2019 93.69 111.75 108.16 -1.08
01/21/2019 92.21 111.97 106.45 -1.48
03/01/2019 92.14 112.26 106.37 -0.07
04/06/2019 92.09 112.27 106.31 -0.05
06/13/2019 91.34 113.00 105.44 -0.75
07/01/2019 91.25 113.66 105.34 -0.09
07/10/2019 91.20 113.80 105.28 -0.05
07/12/2019 91.67 113.83 105.83 +0.47
07/28/2019 91.60 114.00 105.74 -0.07
09/10/2019 91.40 113.57 105.51 -0.20
10/13/2019 91.92 113.52 106.11 +0.52
11/11/2019 91.86 111.66 106.04 -0.06
12/10/2019 91.84 111.83 106.02 -0.02
01/10/2020 91.80 112.26 105.97 -0.04
02/10/2020 91.77 112.07 105.94 -0.03
03/10/2020 91.74 112.16 105.90 -0.03
04/10/2020 92.12 111.46 106.34 +0.38

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

What area of the country are you in?

 

[jmurtagh13]

Cool Atlanta

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Cool Atlanta

Nice progress. You should add odometer reading to each measurement. Basically, you have lost .02% in the last 13 months. I saw the same on mine after 15 months. I traded up at 21 months but its good to see that my trend of 6 months of VERY slow degradation would likely have continued.

 

[GaleHawkins]

Two years and one month with an upward correction of +0.38%. Giving me an increase in battery health over the last year of +0.03%
I've had 2 other upward corrections, last one being on 10/13/2019. Since March of last year the battery degradation has been fairly flat.
I keep the charge between 30 and 70%, Charge only at home and charge early morning when the battery is cooler. I'm at 18,400 miles.

....Date.......SOH.......HX......AH.....Chg
03/09/2018 99.10 98.86 115.00
07/14/2018 97.13 111.58 112.13 -1.97
09/21/2018 96.15 111.74 111.00 -0.98
10/18/2018 94.91 112.07 109.56 -1.24
12/31/2018 94.77 111.47 109.40 -0.14
01/15/2019 93.69 111.75 108.16 -1.08
01/21/2019 92.21 111.97 106.45 -1.48
03/01/2019 92.14 112.26 106.37 -0.07
04/06/2019 92.09 112.27 106.31 -0.05
06/13/2019 91.34 113.00 105.44 -0.75
07/01/2019 91.25 113.66 105.34 -0.09
07/10/2019 91.20 113.80 105.28 -0.05
07/12/2019 91.67 113.83 105.83 +0.47
07/28/2019 91.60 114.00 105.74 -0.07
09/10/2019 91.40 113.57 105.51 -0.20
10/13/2019 91.92 113.52 106.11 +0.52
11/11/2019 91.86 111.66 106.04 -0.06
12/10/2019 91.84 111.83 106.02 -0.02
01/10/2020 91.80 112.26 105.97 -0.04
02/10/2020 91.77 112.07 105.94 -0.03
03/10/2020 91.74 112.16 105.90 -0.04
04/10/2020 92.12 111.46 106.34 +0.38

Thanks for that detailed data. Your SOH rate of decline is awesome.

We got our new 40 kWh battery that replaced the failing 30 kWh in our 2016 Nissan SL back on 12 Feb 2020 and I think the SOH was 99.87 and the SOH has been dropping about 0.01% daily and we have about 3,000 miles on it. 14F degrees is the coldest night and high about 70F so far in KY. We only got the car Oct 2019 but the battery was down to 65.22 after being in service for 38 month and the BMS software update was ran in 2018 per Nissan.

My question is what technique do you use to stop the charge at 70%?

I have been going to 100% then driving shortly there after but the last two times I caught it at 90% and stopped the charging. I want to charge to 80% from around 40%.

One time I took a side trip and ran it down to 13% and got about a 15F degree rise to (94F) when I charged so I now try to recharge at around 40-50%.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You have to figure out (the car's charge timer estimate will help) what percent charge gets added per hour, and preferably per half hour or 15 minutes. Then estimate when you have to manually unplug it. In our household, one of us (usually me) plugs it in, and tells the other one (usually her) at what time to unplug it.