Tesla Winter Range - NY Times article

[mitch672]

I am sorry but unfounded and unsubstantiated crap such as this is what makes US look truly bad!

He obviously had his agenda, no doubt some anti-EV interest(s) approached or even I will be so bold as to say paid him to make the car look bad.

I don't think so. He did almost everything he could so it would fail. Read between the lines.

Tesla suggests he stick to the speed limit (55-60mph), log evidence suggest he was at least 10mph over that
Tesla suggests full range charging the Model S on long road trips, what does he do? Unplugs before it's completed.
Tesla suggest leaving the car plugged in, if at all possible, especially overnight, especially in cold weather without the car being garaged. No effort was put in to even find a 120v outlet.

I call a spade a spade, and a shill is a shill, even if he works for the NY times.

I'll bet I could do that drive 10 times in a row and not have an issue. There is a group on the TMC forum who is going to do just that, BTW: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/13792-Recreate-the-NYT-Road-Trip-and-show-them-how-its-done" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;!

 

[mkjayakumar]

I too have a strong feeling that his goal was to make it fail, and he did it.

He came with a per-conceived notion that this technology is a PoS and had an agenda. I could drive a gas car aground and say the same thing. I have no sense of respect for these guys.

There was a Motley Fool article today with the headlines that 'Investors are fleeing Tesla'. I call that BS. It dropped less than 3% after this story and recovered some of that today. How is that 'fleeing' ? There is a whole network of outlets and gangs out there who desperately want to see Tesla and EVs fail.

 

[GRA]

I am amazed at the level of vitriol directed at John Broder, as well as the numerous completely unsubstantiated claims of some deep-seated antipathy on his part towards the Tesla or BEVs in general. ISTM he drove the car exactly like Tesla has been advertising it; as the first BEV that requires minimal compromise or extra knowledge compared to an ICE, and which could easily make this trip.

If it's necessary to inform potential buyers/drivers of all the extra things they need to know (compared to an ICE) to make such a trip in less than ideal conditions, it's Tesla's responsibility to provide that info, especially to a journalist who they've ASKED to test the supercharger network. Broder seems to me to be very level-headed, both in his initial article and in his response, and (assuming his account of his advice from Tesla reps is accurate, which seems more probable to me than not), he got a lot of bad advice. How would someone who hasn't received a thorough briefing on the car, or spent a lot of time reading the owner's manual (which Tesla's advertising implies shouldn't be necessary; minimal compromise, remember) and has minimal BEV experience, know about Long-Range mode, let alone how to select it? Sure, we know about it here because we're EV geeks, but that's not how the S is being marketed. This should have been explained to him up front. In fact, he should have been given a list of recommended procedures for the conditions, if Tesla thought they were necessary to complete the trip. Either that, or they wanted to prove that they weren't necessary; it's Tesla's fail either way.

Excessive overnight range loss seems to be due to a glitch in Tesla's software, one that has been discussed on TMC, so the failure to inform Broder that he should be _sure_ to plug the car in overnight is, again, on Tesla. Again, just because all of us here would know to do that doesn't mean that the general public would. Let's imagine that this is a rental car; how many people renting cars read the owner's manual (assuming it's even in the car), or need to? BEVs require a lot of technology-specific knowledge that the general public doesn't have yet, unlike ICEs.

As Musk himself admitted, the run from Milford to Wilmington is too far in less than ideal conditions, a fact which I confirmed Monday by using Google maps, which said that leg is 193 miles long. Tesla couldn't figure this out beforehand? It's obvious that it would be pushing even the 85kWh car in cold weather, and a 60kWh car wouldn't have a hope of making that leg in those conditions.

The 'major detour' that so many people seem to be getting up in arms about totaled an extra two miles, according to Broder. The ball's in Tesla's court to prove he's lying.

Finally, Elon Musk's response was over-the-top and completely unprofessional, IMO, unless of course he's got the logs he claims he has. So let's see them so we can decide who's telling the truth. At the moment, based on his article and his response, I suspect it's Broder.

 

[smkettner]

Has anyone put together a google map of the actual route? Marking charge points etc?

 

[GRA]

Has anyone put together a google map of the actual route? Marking charge points etc?

When I did it I just plotted start and finish with the supercharger locations.

 

[thankyouOB]

He obviously had his agenda, no doubt some anti-EV interest(s) approached or even I will be so bold as to say paid him to make the car look bad. The entire ICE automotive industry is threatened by long range EVs, they will go to extremes to try make them look bad/fail. John Broder is nothing more than a paid shill for the oil and gas industry.

this is idiotic, unfounded and reflects more on you than on him.
and I was the second person to complain about his story on this board and also referred it to several journalism review organizations along with the Musk replies. (that was before it went viral.)

 

[thankyouOB]

Has anyone put together a google map of the actual route? Marking charge points etc?

the nytimes posted a complete graphic map with the story.

 

[GRA]

Has anyone put together a google map of the actual route? Marking charge points etc?

the nytimes posted a complete graphic map with the story.

I just checked his first day's trip, letting Google plan it so may not be the exact route. I'd read the one supercharger was in Wilmington, but other, presumably more reliable sources have it in Newark so used that. From a generic Washington, D.C. it's 100 miles to the Newark supercharger, then 201 miles to Milford - even worse than I thought. From there it's 67.5 miles to a generic Stonington, then 13.5 to a generic Groton (67.5 + 13.5 is slightly over Broder's claimed 79 miles, so presumably his route was slightly shorter), for a total of 382 miles.

From there, I get 14.4 miles to the Norwich Public Utilities service center, so he was obviously staying a bit closer if he only needed to go 11 miles. And then the distance back to the Milford Supercharger is shown as 62 miles, which is more than the 57 or so he claims the GPS was telling him, so his route and distances look correct.

 

[mitch672]

this is idiotic, unfounded and reflects more on you than on him.
and I was the second person to complain about his story on this board and also referred it to several journalism review organizations along with the Musk replies. (that was before it went viral.)

If you don't think there are organizations and companies actively trying to make EVs look bad, and not be accepted by the public, YOU sir are extremely naive, it could even be some Wall Street TSLA shorts who set him on his mission, TSLA has a tremendous short interest, who has been getting massacred with all of the great reviews/PR, was time to "take TSLA down", could be as ludicrous an agenda as that.

Elon's logs will prove the excess speed he was driving at, and what his SOC was when he left each charging location. A story ending in a flatbed tow sells many more newspapers than ones that was a success, he HAD an agenda, wether you believe it or not.

 

[GRA]

Has anyone put together a google map of the actual route? Marking charge points etc?

the nytimes posted a complete graphic map with the story.

I just checked his first day's trip, letting Google plan it so may not be the exact route. I'd read the one supercharger was in Wilmington, but other, presumably more reliable sources have it in Newark so used that. From a generic Washington, D.C. it's 100 miles to the Newark supercharger, then 201 miles to Milford - even worse than I thought. From there it's 67.5 miles to a generic Stonington, then 13.5 to a generic Groton (67.5 + 13.5 is slightly over Broder's claimed 79 miles, so presumably his route was slightly shorter), for a total of 382 miles.

From there, I get 14.4 miles to the Norwich Public Utilities service center, so he was obviously staying a bit closer if he only needed to go 11 miles. And then the distance back to the Milford Supercharger is shown as 62 miles, which is more than the 57 or so he claims the GPS was telling him, so his route and distances look correct.

Insideevs.com has posted the NYT map. Link here:

http://insideevs.com/followup-tesla-model-s-versus-new-york-times/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[smkettner]

Thanks for the map. Confirms to me the writer made no effort to make it work.
Any fool could have avoided a tow. Definate agenda or he is a real maroon.

 

[evnow]

If you don't think there are organizations and companies actively trying to make EVs look bad, and not be accepted by the public, YOU sir are extremely naive, it could even be some Wall Street TSLA shorts who set him on his mission, TSLA has a tremendous short interest, who has been getting massacred with all of the great reviews/PR, was time to "take TSLA down", could be as ludicrous an agenda as that.

You don't need to resort to conspiracy theories - journalists just like to sensationalize. That is all this guy did.

It is easy to be stranded in an EV. All you have to do is to be not careful. Remember couple of guys got stranded the first week they got Leaf.

 

[thankyouOB]

this is idiotic, unfounded and reflects more on you than on him.
and I was the second person to complain about his story on this board and also referred it to several journalism review organizations along with the Musk replies. (that was before it went viral.)

If you don't think there are organizations and companies actively trying to make EVs look bad, and not be accepted by the public, YOU sir are extremely naive, it could even be some Wall Street TSLA shorts who set him on his mission, TSLA has a tremendous short interest, who has been getting massacred with all of the great reviews/PR, was time to "take TSLA down", could be as ludicrous an agenda as that.

Elon's logs will prove the excess speed he was driving at, and what his SOC was when he left each charging location. A story ending in a flatbed tow sells many more newspapers than ones that was a success, he HAD an agenda, wether you believe it or not.

you stated as a fact that John broder colluded with anti-EV interests and was paid off by them without a shred of proof.
you, in fact said this:
no doubt some anti-EV interest(s) approached or even I will be so bold as to say paid him to make the car look bad.

It is unsupported by fact or even sourcing.
then, when called on it, you accuse me of being naive.
i dont dispute that there are forces arrayed against EVs. I never said otherwise.
I take issue with your unsupported statement that this NYTimes reporter was paid off by antiEV interests and/or corrupted by them.

 

[mitch672]

You don't need to resort to conspiracy theories - journalists just like to sensationalize. That is all this guy did.

It is easy to be stranded in an EV. All you have to do is to be not careful. Remember couple of guys got stranded the first week they got Leaf.

Yes, but I think he knew enough to know what he was doing. In other words, it was an "on purpose stranding", each action (or inaction) speaks volumes to his motivations.

I've owned my Model S for over a month now, I have yet to be stranded

I will tell you all this. If you plan to stop overnight, and leave the Model S in a cold environment, you either plug it in, or accept a loss of some range, as the pack heater attempts to keep the batteries above 20 degrees F (or so it is rumored). My car has been parked for a week now (since the storm last Friday), the range drops from 240 to 220 overnight, and at some point the EVSE enables and it tops off again... and that's sitting in a garage shielded from direct wind/elements.

 

[mitch672]

you stated as a fact that John broder colluded with anti-EV interests and was paid off by them without a shred of proof.
you, in fact said this:
no doubt some anti-EV interest(s) approached or even I will be so bold as to say paid him to make the car look bad.

It is unsupported by fact or even sourcing.
then, when called on it, you accuse me of being naive.
i dont dispute that there are forces arrayed against EVs. I never said that.
I take issue with your unsupported and groundless statement that this NYTimes reporter was paid off by antiEV interests and/or corrupted by them.

The author made up a story/tale why can't I? We have to wait for the logs to see the TRUTH.
I can make up tall tale as well as the author of the NY times article, who's claims are unsubstaniated so far as well. There are hundreds of thousands of ICE related jobs on the line here, there are certainly forces aligning against Tesla and EVs, regardless if he was a paid shill or did it to sell newspapers/stir the POT, the results where the same.

 

[Nubo]

...ISTM he drove the car exactly like Tesla has been advertising it; as the first BEV that requires minimal compromise or extra knowledge compared to an ICE, and which could easily make this trip.
...

How would someone who hasn't received a thorough briefing on the car, or spent a lot of time reading the owner's manual (which Tesla's advertising implies shouldn't be necessary; minimal compromise, remember) and has minimal BEV experience, know about Long-Range mode, let alone how to select it? Sure, we know about it here because we're EV geeks, but that's not how the S is being marketed.

I think you're being far too literal with the "zero compromises" ad-copy headline. It doesn't imply that the car has infinite range, or that the owner doesn't have to understand how it works. Any car presents compromises. And there is no auto manufacturer of any make or model that is going to suggest that the owner doesn't have to read the owners' manual.

Excessive overnight range loss seems to be due to a glitch in Tesla's software, one that has been discussed on TMC...

And there just happened to be an overnight stop in his plans, concurrent with electing a partial charge on that leg. Too many coincidences on this trip. I don't think he was under-informed. Any decent journalist is going to do research before this kind of thing. I reckon he was plenty informed.

 

[thankyouOB]

you stated as a fact that John broder colluded with anti-EV interests and was paid off by them without a shred of proof.
you, in fact said this:
no doubt some anti-EV interest(s) approached or even I will be so bold as to say paid him to make the car look bad.

It is unsupported by fact or even sourcing.
then, when called on it, you accuse me of being naive.
i dont dispute that there are forces arrayed against EVs. I never said that.
I take issue with your unsupported and groundless statement that this NYTimes reporter was paid off by antiEV interests and/or corrupted by them.

The author made up a story/tale why can't I? We have to wait for the logs to see the TRUTH.
I can make up tall tale as well as the author of the NY times article, who's claims are unsubstaniated so far as well. There are hundreds of thousands of ICE related jobs on the line here, there are certainly forces aligning against Tesla and EVs, regardless if he was a paid shill or did it to sell newspapers/stir the POT, the results where the same.

you accused me of being naive.
what has that got to do with what making up things about broder?

 

[evnow]

Yes, but I think he knew enough to know what he was doing. In other words, it was an "on purpose stranding", each action (or inaction) speaks volumes to his motivations.

You are confusing speculation with proof.

I will tell you all this. If you plan to stop overnight, and leave the Model S in a cold environment, you either plug it in, or accept a loss of some range, as the pack heater attempts to keep the batteries above 20 degrees F (or so it is rumored).

I don't see how this is common knowledge.

This is what I keep writing about. Tesla could have avoided all these problems by giving just a few pointers before handing over the car.

 

[mkjayakumar]

But this is my point, or proof positive that he had a nefarious motive :

In the morning, once he knew he lost excessive range and given that now he has less than needed charge to reach his destination, he should have done two things:

- add enough charge/range to reach his destination, or just abandon the whole exercise
- and then write a scathing article that Model S is tough to drive long distances in winter.

That would have served his purpose.

But what does he do ? knowing fully well the car will die on the highway, he takes it, turtles it, puts it on a flat bed and get his money shot picture which he was dying to get. Also note that, once the range drops to zero he should have simply pulled over and called a tow. Then the car would have atleast had enough power to get on the flat on its own power. But instead he runs the battery dry to have more fun with it. This very last act is clear proof that he had no intention of completing the journey right from the start.

 

[Alric]

It was either nefarious or stupid. Any normal human being would have charged to max range in Manhattan and Newark and completed the trip with no problems.

Either he wanted to push it and lost or planned the drama.

The Verge guys also did not purposefully charge at a good opportunity in Santa Barbara. My speculation is that they just wanted the dramaz as it is prominently featured in their video.