Frank
Well-known member
Jimmydreams said:
Maybe you are right. Did you get approved for the free home charger yet?
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Maybe you are right. Did you get approved for the free home charger yet?
Jimmydreams
Well-known member
Frank said:
Nope. Nothing heard on that. I'm on vacation the 3rd week of August, but something tells me I'll have to finagle a wireless card so I can stay on-line even on the road.
Frank
Well-known member
Has anyone in San Diego received an August order date AND been approved for the free home charger? I'm still trying to figure out if there are any other variables that determined the order month other than a "quick draw" reply to the Nissan e-mail on 4/20.
Randy
Well-known member
Yes, I reserved on 4/20 within minutes after receiving the Nissan email at 2:37pm. Received approval on my "Free" EVSE a few days ago, but I have a pretty easy install. Main panel is on the outside of the wall of the garage, just on the other side of the wall where the EVSE will go.
Today I received the Nissan email with the August timeframe.
Today I received the Nissan email with the August timeframe.
pksd1 said:
Did Pacific Nissan send you an email in that regard? I also understand that we should ask that there be no mandatory dealer installed features such as $1000 floor mats or $1500 clear coat. I honestly hate doing business with automobile dealerships. I've had some dreadful experiences over the years. I wish I could just send Nissan a check and have the car show up in front of my house!
garygid
Well-known member
In La Jolla (essentially San Diego) but reserved 15 May, and declined the "free EVSE" offer (for the "summer house"), the "order-month" is January 2011.
pksd1
Well-known member
indyflick said:
No I read it here somewhere that Pacific Nissan has agreed/stated to sell it at MSRP. I agree, I wish I could just work directly with Nissan. Although my previous experience with Toyota of Escondido was very good (maybe because I went thru Costco program).
Keeping my fingers crossed as dealers are the only thing right now that can turn me off this car.
I just spoke with Scott @ Mossy Nissan Escondido. He said the price would be MSRP and no dealer add on's like clear coat, undercoating, etc. The dealership has an A+ BBB rating. So I've decided to stay with them, but my radar will remain on high alert.pksd1 said:
Randy
Well-known member
On June 22, Bobby Zywiec at Pacific Nissan ([email protected]) wrote back to an email inquiry I made and stated that they would be at MSRP for the Leaf...They are my preferred dealer...
Randy
Randy
Hi!
I'm relatively new to MyNissanLeaf and just found this forum. I too have a reservation on a LEAF, have received a September order date, and have been approved by The EV Project for the free EVSE. I live in the Carmel Mountain Ranch area, just off of I-15.
As a consumer (and before I found this site), I was hungry for info about the LEAF, and had a difficult time finding a good resource for reliable info. There are a lot of folks out there throwing out speculation as fact. So I decided to create my own site. About a month ago now, I started Living LEAF.
Living LEAF is a consumer-oriented, San Diego based website seeking to answer this question - Is the Nissan LEAF right for me? I am currently formulating a series of articles on this topic. What I would appreciate from anyone on this board is this - if you are interested in the LEAF, but have yet to make a decision regarding its acquisition, what would you want to know? I will do my best to find out the reliable answer to these questions, and incorporate them in this series. We welcome all questions, from the most basic that someone might have, to more advanced. While I can't guarantee that we will find every answer, we will certainly put forth the effort.
Meantime, feel free to wander around the site and check out our previous posts. I know that many of you have already been to the site (thanks Google Analytics!), but many of you might not have seen it yet. Any recommendations that you can offer to improve it are welcome!
I'm relatively new to MyNissanLeaf and just found this forum. I too have a reservation on a LEAF, have received a September order date, and have been approved by The EV Project for the free EVSE. I live in the Carmel Mountain Ranch area, just off of I-15.
As a consumer (and before I found this site), I was hungry for info about the LEAF, and had a difficult time finding a good resource for reliable info. There are a lot of folks out there throwing out speculation as fact. So I decided to create my own site. About a month ago now, I started Living LEAF.
Living LEAF is a consumer-oriented, San Diego based website seeking to answer this question - Is the Nissan LEAF right for me? I am currently formulating a series of articles on this topic. What I would appreciate from anyone on this board is this - if you are interested in the LEAF, but have yet to make a decision regarding its acquisition, what would you want to know? I will do my best to find out the reliable answer to these questions, and incorporate them in this series. We welcome all questions, from the most basic that someone might have, to more advanced. While I can't guarantee that we will find every answer, we will certainly put forth the effort.
Meantime, feel free to wander around the site and check out our previous posts. I know that many of you have already been to the site (thanks Google Analytics!), but many of you might not have seen it yet. Any recommendations that you can offer to improve it are welcome!
garygid
Well-known member
Is there substantial (or any) Regen control on the brake pedal, before the mechanical brakes start to activate?
Will all SL's support Level 3 charging, at no extra cost?
Is the firmware "easy" to upgrade (perhaps via USB flash drive), or does it require special equipment at the dealer?
Where is the Nav software and data stored, and how updated?
How many POI are in the data?
When will the L2 onboard charger be upgraded to 30 or 32 amps?
Will I fit comfortably in the LEAF?
Will the seats recline enough to sleep comfortably while charging?
Will all SL's support Level 3 charging, at no extra cost?
Is the firmware "easy" to upgrade (perhaps via USB flash drive), or does it require special equipment at the dealer?
Where is the Nav software and data stored, and how updated?
How many POI are in the data?
When will the L2 onboard charger be upgraded to 30 or 32 amps?
Will I fit comfortably in the LEAF?
Will the seats recline enough to sleep comfortably while charging?
Let me start with the ones that I know:
I don't know what firmware you are specifically referring to. The nav data will be updated via USB, but typically only available through Nissan.
The nav is a hard-drive based system. Current Nissan technology uses 40GB for nav with about 9.3 of that dedicated to the music box (recorded music from CD), but this article from 2006 talked specifically about the CARWINGS system, which was apparently introduced in Japan almost four years ago, and which will be in the LEAF, according to the microsite. I don't recall how many POIs, but more than any portable system. As this will be the first implementation of the CARWINGS system in the US, I have no more information than that in the article.
Regarding your last 2 questions - I guess that depends on your size. Brad Berman wrote this article for plugincars. I thought he did a nice job and he said his 6'4" frame fit comfortably in the front seat and in the back seat. If you are taller than that I guess you'll have to wait until you actually sit in one. Interior dimensions have not yet been released.
Regarding your first question, I don't see how there could be. I'm not an engineer, but if the pads aren't touching the rotors there is no braking force generated. I would have to think that there must be mechanical braking prior to regenerative action, but I can certainly ask.
I don't know what firmware you are specifically referring to. The nav data will be updated via USB, but typically only available through Nissan.
The nav is a hard-drive based system. Current Nissan technology uses 40GB for nav with about 9.3 of that dedicated to the music box (recorded music from CD), but this article from 2006 talked specifically about the CARWINGS system, which was apparently introduced in Japan almost four years ago, and which will be in the LEAF, according to the microsite. I don't recall how many POIs, but more than any portable system. As this will be the first implementation of the CARWINGS system in the US, I have no more information than that in the article.
Regarding your last 2 questions - I guess that depends on your size. Brad Berman wrote this article for plugincars. I thought he did a nice job and he said his 6'4" frame fit comfortably in the front seat and in the back seat. If you are taller than that I guess you'll have to wait until you actually sit in one. Interior dimensions have not yet been released.
Regarding your first question, I don't see how there could be. I'm not an engineer, but if the pads aren't touching the rotors there is no braking force generated. I would have to think that there must be mechanical braking prior to regenerative action, but I can certainly ask.
garygid
Well-known member
I am an Engineer, and Regen can be done many ways.
The Basics:
Regen "braking" is slowing the car by using the electric motor as a generator. It has nothing to do with the disc brakes. They are two independent methods for slowing the car.
The first half-inch or so of the brake pedal travel can be designed so that the disc brakes do not do any braking. That "free" travel can then be used to gradually increase the Regen braking effect from the "foot-off" Regen level (usually "light", if any) up to the maximum supported (and available) Regen level, usually (with available remaining capacity in the battery) quite substantial braking.
The foot-off Regen is often done in an attempt (misguided, I believe) to "simulate" the gentle slowing that a typical ICE (plus automatic transmission) "provides".
Zero "foot-off" Regen provides a "coasting" or "gliding" effect for the EV where the car's kinetic energy is used to continue the car's motion, diminished primarily by air and tire "drag" effects.
Having Regen ON to slow the car converts the motion-energy to electricity, charges the battery, then later uses that charge to accelerate (push) the car again ... but it wastes about 50% of the energy. Used when you do not want to be slowing, Regen is a parasitic drag, wasting energy.
How to "best" provide the "considerable, sustained" braking required for decending (sometimes long) grades ... is another issue. It is only clear that it should be "stronger", and "adjustable" to match the grade, the full-car weight, and the desired speed. Any non-adjustable implementation will not prove satisfactory, except for "almost-flat-land driving".
Since Regen might not be available (battery full), one must be able to safely rely upon just the disc brakes without overheating them on long downgrades. Thus, the disc brakes in an EV must be "oversized" to be safe.
On the LEAF's power usage screen, it shows 0 to 30 kW for Regen braking energy recovery rate (power). Does that mean the LEAF's brake pedal will "adjust" the Regen "level"?
The Basics:
Regen "braking" is slowing the car by using the electric motor as a generator. It has nothing to do with the disc brakes. They are two independent methods for slowing the car.
The first half-inch or so of the brake pedal travel can be designed so that the disc brakes do not do any braking. That "free" travel can then be used to gradually increase the Regen braking effect from the "foot-off" Regen level (usually "light", if any) up to the maximum supported (and available) Regen level, usually (with available remaining capacity in the battery) quite substantial braking.
The foot-off Regen is often done in an attempt (misguided, I believe) to "simulate" the gentle slowing that a typical ICE (plus automatic transmission) "provides".
Zero "foot-off" Regen provides a "coasting" or "gliding" effect for the EV where the car's kinetic energy is used to continue the car's motion, diminished primarily by air and tire "drag" effects.
Having Regen ON to slow the car converts the motion-energy to electricity, charges the battery, then later uses that charge to accelerate (push) the car again ... but it wastes about 50% of the energy. Used when you do not want to be slowing, Regen is a parasitic drag, wasting energy.
How to "best" provide the "considerable, sustained" braking required for decending (sometimes long) grades ... is another issue. It is only clear that it should be "stronger", and "adjustable" to match the grade, the full-car weight, and the desired speed. Any non-adjustable implementation will not prove satisfactory, except for "almost-flat-land driving".
Since Regen might not be available (battery full), one must be able to safely rely upon just the disc brakes without overheating them on long downgrades. Thus, the disc brakes in an EV must be "oversized" to be safe.
On the LEAF's power usage screen, it shows 0 to 30 kW for Regen braking energy recovery rate (power). Does that mean the LEAF's brake pedal will "adjust" the Regen "level"?
garygid
Well-known member
The car's firmware is all the "software" that runs the car, usually in some (perhaps many) micro-processors throughout the car.
If the car had an "unwanted feature" (a "bug") implemented in this firmware, that firmware then might need updating.
The Update Process could be designed to be:
1. EASY Method: as simple as logging into your on-line account, downloading a file to a USB flash drive, and plugging that into the car's USB port before turning ON the car. The file could be VIN-specific, and encrypted for security. Very inexpensive to "update" thousands, or even millions of cars. If the owner was not able to do it, the Update could be easily and quickly done by any dealer, with no "special" equipment (just one "flash" drive).
(It could even be done by a salesman. )
2. HARD Method: as difficult as driving (or shipping) the LEAF to a dealer that has a "special" LEAF-update system, for a time-consuming, "expensive" update process. Slow, invasive on the owner, and manpower intensive. Inconvenient at best.
If the car had an "unwanted feature" (a "bug") implemented in this firmware, that firmware then might need updating.
The Update Process could be designed to be:
1. EASY Method: as simple as logging into your on-line account, downloading a file to a USB flash drive, and plugging that into the car's USB port before turning ON the car. The file could be VIN-specific, and encrypted for security. Very inexpensive to "update" thousands, or even millions of cars. If the owner was not able to do it, the Update could be easily and quickly done by any dealer, with no "special" equipment (just one "flash" drive).
(It could even be done by a salesman.
)2. HARD Method: as difficult as driving (or shipping) the LEAF to a dealer that has a "special" LEAF-update system, for a time-consuming, "expensive" update process. Slow, invasive on the owner, and manpower intensive. Inconvenient at best.
LEAFer
Well-known member
LEAFguy ... please run up to the Newport Beach Tesla store and request a test drive. No offense, and I am suggesting you go have some fun, but you need to learn all about the possibilities of regen ! Thereafter, go and test drive a used Gen2 Prius ( I can't speak for the Gen3 ). (This education will help your website and general knowledge and "authority".)
Firmware: I can't imagine Nissan allowing customer updates to the firmware. ( Remember ... we are "dumb" ... we aren't even allowed to use a 240V plug-in EVSE (if we can help it :twisted: ) ) Things can -- and do -- go wrong (think of the analogy of flashing your motherboard BIOS -- ignore if you don't know what I'm talking about). You don't want "things to go wrong" at home. They'd want the car in the service facility. That's not to say that it couldn't be a super easy and inexpensive process ... but only executed by a trained tech.
Thereafter, go and test drive a used Gen2 Prius ( I can't speak for the Gen3 ). (This education will help your website and general knowledge and "authority".)Firmware: I can't imagine Nissan allowing customer updates to the firmware. ( Remember ... we are "dumb" ... we aren't even allowed to use a 240V plug-in EVSE (if we can help it :twisted: ) ) Things can -- and do -- go wrong (think of the analogy of flashing your motherboard BIOS -- ignore if you don't know what I'm talking about). You don't want "things to go wrong" at home. They'd want the car in the service facility. That's not to say that it couldn't be a super easy and inexpensive process ... but only executed by a trained tech.
garygid
Well-known member
Sure, go to the dealer ...
Sort of like having to take your PC to the Geek Squad to install any new software, load any MS Updates, or load a new operating system.
But, you are right, if the LEAF "bricks" (becomes useless), it is a lot better to have it IN a dealer's shop.
But, there could be a factory-reload mode that would reset all the LEAF's firmware to an "as delivered" or "limp in" state. This "restore" state would be ROM, so it could not be damaged by an update.
But, car manufacturers are likely to be slow to realize that increasingly-complex control firmware (and software) will contain some unintended "unannounced features".
Sort of like having to take your PC to the Geek Squad to install any new software, load any MS Updates, or load a new operating system.
But, you are right, if the LEAF "bricks" (becomes useless), it is a lot better to have it IN a dealer's shop.
But, there could be a factory-reload mode that would reset all the LEAF's firmware to an "as delivered" or "limp in" state. This "restore" state would be ROM, so it could not be damaged by an update.
But, car manufacturers are likely to be slow to realize that increasingly-complex control firmware (and software) will contain some unintended "unannounced features".
AndyH
Well-known member
LEAFer said:
Absolutely! It's one thing to 'brick' a smart phone or PDA - it's something else to trash the ABS/Traction Control computer or have the airbags deploy while Joe Public is leaning forward to push buttons on the center console.
It's not good for any company's longevity to invite a lawsuit from either an EVSE plug igniting fumes from the lawn mower gas can
or from someone injuring kids at a bus stop after performing a factory-authorized firmware upgrade on their car.We NEED a LOT of EVs on the road - and if that means we keep our sticky fingers off the firmware then so be it. Wait until we've taken a bite out of our oil imports and/or have cleaner air before calling for 'officially sponsored' geek-fests!
Sorry Gary. I didn't realize that you were talking about the firmware for the entire vehicle. Many manufacturers (including Nissan) now use the OBD2 (On Board Diagnostics) system. Take it in to service, they plug it in, and the car's computers talks to your computer. Any overall vehicle firmware would be updated in this way. The USB port in the LEAF, as in any Nissan, is only ported to the Nav/Audio system.
LEAFer: Thanks for the idea. I'll do that when I'm up there next week. While I've been a free-lance automotive trainer for about 18 years (including about 16 working with Nissan), this is my first venture into EVs. And if you've been to my site, you will see that it is decidedly being presented from the entry-level EV perspective - including my own. Since finding this forum, I have already learned a significant amount about EVs that I did not know before. And the reason that I created my site is because there is so much mis-information out there. While I can hold myself out there as being knowledgeable about the automobile, I'm still working to attain the knowledge in the EV world. One thing that you will find out about me... I am willing to listen!
LEAFer: Thanks for the idea. I'll do that when I'm up there next week. While I've been a free-lance automotive trainer for about 18 years (including about 16 working with Nissan), this is my first venture into EVs. And if you've been to my site, you will see that it is decidedly being presented from the entry-level EV perspective - including my own. Since finding this forum, I have already learned a significant amount about EVs that I did not know before. And the reason that I created my site is because there is so much mis-information out there. While I can hold myself out there as being knowledgeable about the automobile, I'm still working to attain the knowledge in the EV world. One thing that you will find out about me... I am willing to listen!
Jimmydreams
Well-known member
AndyH said:LEAFer said:
Absolutely! It's one thing to 'brick' a smart phone or PDA - it's something else to trash the ABS/Traction Control computer or have the airbags deploy while Joe Public is leaning forward to push buttons on the center console.
It's not good for any company's longevity to invite a lawsuit from either an EVSE plug igniting fumes from the lawn mower gas can
We NEED a LOT of EVs on the road - and if that means we keep our sticky fingers off the firmware then so be it. Wait until we've taken a bite out of our oil imports and/or have cleaner air before calling for 'officially sponsored' geek-fests!
Ford's SYNC software is updatable at home by the driver via USB memory stick and on-line downloads, however not ALL SYNC functions can be done that way. An update to the "emergency help/911" portion of SYNC required a visit to the dealer.
SYNC doesn't control any of the cars higher functions, only the entertainment/NAV portions.
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