Push for Level 3 chargers providing coolant.

[KarenRei]

compared with 1.5 in to 1 out for gasoline.

Who told you that? Even bitumen isn't that bad.

 

[AndyH]

The fuel can be made from non-food oil crops - and provides higher oil yields.

All that is true - just that we can't make 85 mbpd.

We can't make millions of EVs yet either.

BTW, this is something I've always wondered about.

However, the organic farms in the study produced less than half of the yield of their conventional counterparts

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1272838/Organic-farms-produce-HALF-food-conventional-ones.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[edit]Ack! The authors actually suggested that the organic farm plots were the source of weeds seen in adjacent fields? The weeds prefer poorer soils... Soil in the organic plots was likely better after harvest, nutrition levels were likely higher, lower levels of petroleum-based fertilizers and pesticides were used (should be zero of each). Junk article overall. Sorry.[/edit]

Not surprised. This is akin to Wall Street where people drive up in Bentleys to take advice from folks driving Chevys. I wonder how many newspaper writers have ever grown a tomato? Please don't focus on the 'organic' while missing the 'sustainable' or 'permaculture' part.

Dr. Leonid Sharashkin, from the University of Missouri Center for Agroforestry in Columbia, writes in his 2005 paper ECOFARMING AND AGROFORESTRY FOR SELF-RELIANCE:
Small-scale, Sustainable Growing Practices in Russia:

"In Russia, microscale ecofarming is an extremely widespread, time-tested practice. Despite the minuscule size (600 m2) of individual plots and absence of machinery, cultivators have demonstrated exceptional productivity, producing more potatoes, vegetables, berries, fruit, milk, and meat than commercial agriculture’s output of these products. Currently, with 35 million families (70% of Russia's population) working 8 million ha of land and producing more than 40% of Russia’s agricultural output, this is in all likelihood the most extensive microscale food production practice in any industrially
developed nation."

Permaculture practices leave the ground better than before crops were planted. Industrial farming takes from the ground and thus is more reliant on petroleum-based fertilizers as time goes on.

This talk on Biomimicry does a better job detailing the benefits than I can.

Andy

 

[AndyH]

compared with 1.5 in to 1 out for gasoline.

Who told you that? Even bitumen isn't that bad.

[edit] Answered a few posts down. The 1.4/1 number is from MacKay "Sustainable Energy" page 30. It's credited to a gent that specializes in total cycle costs rather than just energy input numbers. [/edit]

A paper sponsored by GM, BP, ExxonMobil, and Shell from Argonne National Labs seems to suggest that it takes one unit of energy to produce three units of gasoline (about 250,000 BTU in for 1 million BTU out).

The National Biodiesel Board compiled numbers from large-scale biodiesel processors and reports that it takes an average of 4192 BTU in per gallon (about 118,300 BTU) or about 35,435 BTU in for 1 million BTU out - 1 unit in, 28 units of energy out.

Andy

 

[evnow]

I don't want to take this thread too offtrack - so I'll make a new thread out of the discussion later on to continue.

 

[AndyH]

compared with 1.5 in to 1 out for gasoline.

Who told you that? Even bitumen isn't that bad.

Source: "Sustainable Energy - without the hot air", David MacKay, page 30
"What about the energy-cost of producing the car's fuel?

Good point. When I estimate the energy consumed by a particular activity, I tend to choose a fairly tight "boundary" around the activity. This choice makes the estimation easier, but I agree that it's a good idea to estimate the full energy impact of an activity. it's been estimated that making each unit of petrol requires an input of 1.4 units of oil and other primary fuels (Treloar et al., 2004)."

I'm digging for the Treloar doc...

[edit] I still haven't found the specific Treloar doc, but have found a number of other of his docs. The gent does extensive work with total life cycle costs so I suspect strongly that he arrived at 1.4 units 'in' for petrol by looking at the total energy and emissions mix rather than only the 'required' or 'standard' energy inputs that appear to be the industry and 'regulatory' norms used in other assessments. [/edit]

 

[garygid]

I do not understand the ratio, help, please.

Is it getting 1 gallon of gasoline out of 1.5 gallons of oil (seems quite good), or

is it using an additional 1.5 gallons of oil to produce one gallon of gas from an unspecified amount of oil?

Thanks

 

[evnow]

The main idea of the below table is to compare ethanol with fossil fuel. But this gives an idea of the losses involved.

http://netenergy.theoildrum.com/node/6356

 

[LeafHopper]

Members of the design team said that charging raised the temperature only a few degrees. Even fast charging did not require any active cooling. While the Leaf does not have active cooling, there is an internal fan within the battery compartment.

 

[garygid]

I wonder, might Nissan recommend staying outside the vehicle during the Quick-Charge e-fueling? I suspect not.

Maybe most e-fueling stations (L2 and L3) should also be free WiFi hot-spots?

Then, one could work, learn, or be entertained while e-fueling.

Does the driver and/or passenger seat recline for a nap?

Do the rear seats recline, or just fold forward?

 

[evnow]

Then, one could work, learn, or be entertained while e-fueling.

More likely you would consume caffeine and something to fatten yourself :twisted:

 

[garygid]

My favorite Level 2 (4-hour) charging station: the one outside Hometown Buffet? (burp!)

 

[AndyH]

I do not understand the ratio, help, please.

Is it getting 1 gallon of gasoline out of 1.5 gallons of oil (seems quite good), or

is it using an additional 1.5 gallons of oil to produce one gallon of gas from an unspecified amount of oil?

Thanks

It's how much energy required to produce a gallon of fuel. There's a more thorough analysis in this study.