[PHASED-OUT]: Tracking the $5k California CVRP Fund

[Center4Energy]

Hello All,

First off let me apologize for not posting in a while. As you probably are all too familiar, we have been quite busy the past two months processing rebate applications. The other day I received a call from a frequent provider to this forum, he was very interested in an update concerning the additional funds from the CEC. After our discussion I thought it was about time to reach out to all of you and give an update.

The CEC agreement is in the final stage before it reaches the CVRP. I am hesitant to give you a specific time frame when the funds will come available, but I will say it should happen by the middle of June, however it could be sooner. As you may all recall, this funding is specific to vehicles that are capable of highway driving and can carry four or more passengers. Other than that stipulation, the funding follows the CVRP guidelines described in more detail on our website.

On another note, if or rather when the CVRP runs out of 2010-2011 funds, we will be establishing a waiting list for applicants. The procedure to get on the waiting list will be the same as the current process to apply for a rebate. However, instead of receiving a rebate check, you will receive confirmation of your spot on this list. Once 2011-2012 CVRP funding comes available, we will begin distributing rebates to individuals on the list and then make our way to new reservations.

PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT INDIVIDUALS ON THE WAITING LIST WILL BE SUBJECT TO 2011-2012 CVRP GUIDELINES WHICH INCLUDES A REDUCED REBATE FROM $5,000 TO $2,500. With that being said, the overall level of funding for 2011-2012 will increase significantly. Both of these measures are being implemented to maximize the number of rebates the Air Resources Board can fund.

Once we have confirmation of the CEC funds you all will be amongst the first to know. As always, if you have any questions or need further clarification please feel free to call/email/reply to this post.

Best,

David Almeida
Program Manager, Clean Vehicle Rebate Project

California Center for Sustainable Energy
8690 Balboa Ave., Suite 100
San Diego, CA 92123-1502
858.244.1190 phone
858.244.1178 fax
http://www.energycenter.org web

 

[LEAFer]

Thank you, David.

Are you officially confirming that the LEAF will qualify for $2,500 (not a lower amount based on +/- 100 or +/- 75 mile "RANGE") after 2010-11 funding runs out ? In other words, the LEAF will be classified as a "Type II, III, IV, or V" vehicle ?

 

[Center4Energy]

Thank you, David.

Are you officially confirming that the LEAF will qualify for $2,500 (not a lower amount based on +/- 100 or +/- 75 mile "RANGE") after 2010-11 funding runs out ? In other words, the LEAF will be classified as a "Type II, III, IV, or V" vehicle ?

LEAFer,

Yes, the LEAF has and will continue to be classified as a Type II ZEV. Thus it will be eligible for the maximum rebate amount. This is the second time today I have been asked this, have you heard otherwise? If so, please let me know so I can address the miscommunication.

Best,

David

 

[LEAFer]

The confusion comes from this document: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aqip/meetings/aqip_fundingplan_discussion_april2011_worskshops.pdf

where, on page 10 (being page 13/18 in the PDF), Section A, Table 6, the additional parameter of "Range" is used. Type II is shown as "range >= 100 miles)". Who/what defines "Range" ? Does this parameter apply or is it an unfortunate inclusion in the table ? Will it affect the LEAF ?

 

[ElectricVehicle]

I was awaiting a private email repsonse from Kyle, to clarify. The uncertainty comes from not being able to easily find what Type the Nissan LEAF is classified as. Or since we can'e easily find that, we're looking for the mileage standard test used to define the Types and how the LEAF scores in that test, again so we can determine what Type it is, and use that to determine the rebate amount.

I suggest on the CVRP Eligible Vehicles that you add the classification type for each vehicle, a link to the test results for each vehicle, and optionally, the actual vehicle range used for that classification. With that information in the eligible vehice list, we would have had the information that avoids this uncertainty / confusion.

Particularly since the EPA Range rating for the Nissan LEAF is 73 miles.

Range (miles) 73
fueleconomy.gov 2011 Nissan Leaf

So if the CVRP used the EPA range rating, the LEAF would fall into a lower type. I won't post that here to avoid spreading any confusion, but you can see how it's critical to know which Type the Nissan LEAF is classified as, or which range is used to determine the Type, so that one can figure out the new rebate amount, as the eligible vehicles, shows the current rebate amount, as it largely should.

Though once the proposed changes are confirmed, maybe there should be something showing the current rebate amount and then the rebate amount after FY 2010-2011 funds run out. Maybe not a big deal this time, since it's about to happen anyway in a month or two, but future rebate changes might do that.

The implementation guide is a great resource but doesn't have the actual test result numbers and Type classifications for each eligible vehicle. I looked through it and spent probably 30 minutes, trying to find the test results used for the LEAF and the Type, that I could be certain was right, so I could pass it on to others. I didn't succeed, so I then emailed Kyle.

Ps. Kudos for many of the CVRP web pages, including the realtime tracking of the available funds with timely updates, the CVRP FAQ etc.

 

[lonndoggie]

The confusion comes from this document: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aqip/meetings/aqip_fundingplan_discussion_april2011_worskshops.pdf

where, on page 10 (being page 13/18 in the PDF), Section A, Table 6, the additional parameter of "Range" is used. Type II is shown as "range >= 100 miles)". Who/what defines "Range" ? Does this parameter apply or is it an unfortunate inclusion in the table ? Will it affect the LEAF ?

Also, this page: https://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/frequently-asked-questions-cvrp

Which shows rebate values for cars with range > 100 miles, and for those with < 100 miles...but nothing for cars with range = 100 miles (which the other document clarifies--the faq page should be made to show the same).

 

[Boomer23]

The CEC agreement is in the final stage before it reaches the CVRP. I am hesitant to give you a specific time frame when the funds will come available, but I will say it should happen by the middle of June, however it could be sooner. As you may all recall, this funding is specific to vehicles that are capable of highway driving and can carry four or more passengers. Other than that stipulation, the funding follows the CVRP guidelines described in more detail on our website.

David, can you please clarify further regarding the CEC funds? Does this refer to the additional $2 million that we have been discussing? Will this additional funding be added to the same pool as the existing CVRP funds, or will it be tracked and/or applied for in a separate way? Will the CEC funds be part of the 2010-11 funds and therefore reimbursed at the full $5,000 for a LEAF? I'm guessing that these funds will be part of the overall CVRP funding for cars such as LEAF and therefore will be rebated before the 2010-11 funds run out, therefore will be rebated at the full $5,000 amount. Is that correct? Also, is going onto the waiting list the trigger for being eligible for only the $2,500 rebate, rather than a LEAF delivery date after July 1, 2011 being that trigger?

Thanks. Sorry for all of the detail in the questions, but you can see that some of this is not completely clear to us.

 

[JPVLeaf]

Thank you, David.

Are you officially confirming that the LEAF will qualify for $2,500 (not a lower amount based on +/- 100 or +/- 75 mile "RANGE") after 2010-11 funding runs out ? In other words, the LEAF will be classified as a "Type II, III, IV, or V" vehicle ?

FYI, on 10/25/2010, the CA ARB issued the official Executive Order certifying the Nissan LEAF as a Type II ZEV (EO #A-015-0560).

See ARB documentation here:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2011/nissan_pc_a0150560_0_z_e.pdf

 

[Center4Energy]

Hello All,

First off, thank you all for contributing to this thread. I can't tell you how good it is to have a conduit to share information. Let me try to address all of your comments in this post. However, if I miss something please call me out.

Vehicle Certification

Let me start off by restating, the LEAF is certified as a Type II ZEV. In order for the vehicle to be eligible for the CVRP, it must be tested and certified by the Air Resources Board. ARB tests include a process to determine the vehicle range based on the urban dynamometer driving schedule (UDDS) as set forth by the EPA. You can read more about these requirements by clicking on this link, http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=122de6fdc6d535d97383ea36ab2aada5&rgn=div8&view=text&node=40:19.0.1.1.1.12.1.45&idno=40. While the EPA has range of 73 miles, ARB has certified that the Nissan LEAF is a Type II ZEV, with a range of at least 100 miles. This is mainly due to the testing loop that ARB uses, which is more reflective of city driving. I am getting more details on this and will provide them on this forum as soon as I can.

Once a vehicle is certified, ARB issues an executive order that formalizes this process. Thanks to JPVLEAF for posting the pdf that confirms the LEAF is a Type two ZEV (http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2011/nissan_pc_a0150560_0_z_e.pdf). If you want to check for other vehicles, follow this link http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/cert.php, and scroll down to the bottom of the page to the table titled “Executive Orders Listing”. You will need to do a bit of reading to understand the acronyms in the notes section.
For example PC=passenger car, LDT=light duty vehicle, MDV= Medium Duty Vehicle and MDEV=incomplete or diesel vehicle using a certified medium-duty engine. So the first column titled PC_LDT_MDV_MDEV includes all vehicles that fall within the acronyms I just defined. Since all the vehicles in the CVRP are light-duty vehicles, their paperwork can be found in this column.

I can see how this is all a bit confusing; it is to me as well. With that being said, I will do my best to better communicate the vehicle type on our website. In fact I made the necessary changes to the FAQs today to clear up the issue with the table. However, I will also post a new FAQ shedding some more light on the vehicle certification process and links to the executive orders.

CEC Funds

The CEC funds I described in an earlier post are in fact the additional $2M funds for the CVRP. These funds will be added to the 2010-2011 CVRP funds in an effort to help us get through to the next installment of program funds which should happen sometime in October. These funds will rebate vehicles at the $5,000 level and will be exclusively for highway capable vehicles that can carry four or more individuals. We have not added these funds yet, but once we do it will be clear on our website as well as this forum that they have been added.

Waiting List

Once the 2010-2011 funds (existing 2010-2011 funds and additional $2M from the CEC) are exhausted the waiting list will begin. Once this list begins, applicants will reserve rebates at the lower amount, beginning with $2,500 for a Type II ZEV (Nissan LEAF) and ending with $900 for a Zero Emission Motorcycle (Brammo).

I hope that this answers all of your questions, however if you need further clarification please email/call/post to this thread. On another note, please give me some time to make the necessary changes to the website. We have a lot of paperwork to get through.

Best,

David

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Awesome! Thank you for taking the time David (Center4Energy) to put this all together and keeping in touch with us! That really helps to clarify and confirm the information we've been digging up. It also helps us in getting this information out to others so they know what to expect and we all get MORE EVs on the ROAD! Yeah!

I'm bookmarking your post in my browser. It will serve as a valuable reference for some time to come!

 

[derkraut]

David: you just put a smile back on my face. Now, I feel (hope) that I'll get delivery (Month of June) before the $5K rebate dries up. I've been juggling my finances, and this surely will help. I really want to own and drive an electric vehicle before I leave this Earth. That--and I need a hole-in-one. The hole-in-one thing is looking more bleak lately. :mrgreen:

 

[thankyouOB]

nice to see the excitables sedated again.

I, of course, got my big course of drugs a month ago.

 

[garygid]

[whisper ...
Can we get him to take over the placing and installing of QC stations?]

 

[LALeaf]

David -

Thank you for the information, it is greatly appreciated.

nice to see the excitables sedated again.

I, of course, got my big course of drugs a month ago.

ThankyouOB, as someone who ordered his car in Feb and was lucky enough to get it in April, ahead of the Sept-Dec folks who are still waiting for a car, way to stay classy.

 

[OilFreedom]

David, you and your Center4Energy team are doing great work! Thanks for being so responsive with direct inquiries, keeping us updated here, and also for having the very informative website.

It will be interesting (suspenseful!) to see if the additional $2 million in funding for the 2010-11 Fiscal Year will stretch beyond June -- and if so, how far. From what I am hearing, Nissan is ramping up production, so we may see the rebate burn rate increase with many more happy new Leaf owners.

 

[TEG]

David, you and your Center4Energy team are doing great work! Thanks for being so responsive with direct inquiries, keeping us updated here, and also for having the very informative website...

+1

 

[lonndoggie]

[whisper ...
Can we get him to take over the placing and installing of QC stations?]

[more sotto voce: No, I'd prefer he takes over Nissan EV CS!]

 

[thankyouOB]

David -

Thank you for the information, it is greatly appreciated.

nice to see the excitables sedated again.

I, of course, got my big course of drugs a month ago.

ThankyouOB, as someone who ordered his car in Feb and was lucky enough to get it in April, ahead of the Sept-Dec folks who are still waiting for a car, way to stay classy.

I guess the second line -- poking fun at myself and my lucky duck status -- was too subtle. As was my first line, appreciating that the anxiety level of folks like der kraut have been ameliorated.

my apologies. I should realize how hot the folks are, who are still waiting.

 

[Stoaty]

I guess the second line -- poking fun at myself and my lucky duck status -- was too subtle. As was my first line, appreciating that the anxiety level of folks like der kraut have been ameliorated.

Not too subtle for me. People are way too ready to read into text something that isn't there.

 

[opencar]

For thosee trying to estimate when the fund will run out, here is some specific data with extrapolations (linear which is not going to happen and polonimial which may or may not reflect a production ramp):

At this point, IMHO May is safe and likely up to mid-June (figuring 1500 cars).

great graph. are you including the extra $2M promised for this year?

Long4Leaf - any chance you wanna update this graph? looks like we're burning way faster than your polynomial extrapolation!