Official Tesla Model 3 thread

[OrientExpress]

The question that many will have to ponder is: "do I get a barebones Tesla for $35K or a fully equipped LEAF for the same price?"

 

[Graffi]

The question that many will have to ponder is: "do I get a barebones Tesla for $35K or a fully equipped LEAF for the same price?"

If it is for Local Driving only, then get the Leaf. If you wish to use it for long cross-country vacation driving then get the Tesla. Even the 200+ mile Leaf can not be practical for trips greater than 300 miles. jmho

 

[SageBrush]

The question that many will have to ponder is: "do I get a barebones Tesla for $35K or a fully equipped LEAF for the same price?"

What is this 'fully equipped' LEAF you speak of ?

 

[dgpcolorado]

310 miles of range for $44k is pretty sweet! The larger battery is a little more expensive than I'd expected, but for more range - We're happy to see that it's actually more than 300 miles. With a coefficient of drag of only 0.23 (okay, not the hoped-for 0.21, but still impressive), the range at 80mph should be quite good.

Our only disappointment is that dual motor AWD is delayed to "Spring 2018". Given our reservation number (a 3/31/16 reservation made right after the initial reveal), the Tesla website provides the following delivery estimates:

"First production" - $49k including larger battery and the $5k option package - Oct.-Dec. 2017
"Standard battery" - $35k - Dec. 2017 - Feb. 2018
"Dual motor all wheel drive" - Choice of 220 or 310 mile range - Aug.-Oct. 2018

So, about ten months' more waiting for an AWD model, with the risk of missing out on all or part of the federal $7500 tax credit. And probably a bit less than $5k to add AWD. Hmm. Does our family need AWD badly enough to wait longer and pay maybe $10k more? Darn California snow chain rules! If we instead lived in the mountains of CO or NV, we'd almost certainly drop the AWD and just buy some dedicated snow tires. That said, I think the Model 3 is worth its price tag even without government incentives.

Lucky me: RWD plus snow tires works really well here, as you well know. However, I can't use the federal tax credit because my income is much too low. I waited to April 1st to place my reservation so that others can be ahead of me and take advantage of the federal tax credit since I can't.

Not happy about that phone entry thing. I don't always carry my phone when leaving the car and I never have bluetooth on. But it is a clever way to reduce costs by eliminating the fobs in favor of simple RFID cards and phones that most people have with them anyway.

I think I could make a "standard" plus paint option (I HATE black cars) work. Although the bigger battery is tempting because of much faster Supercharging. No interest in the other options.

 

[dgpcolorado]

...On our recent 7,000 mile cross-country trip we would drive for 1 to 1.5 hours then stop for 10 to 20 minutes (potty break and walk around to get the blood flowing to our legs and feet). We would always charge to at least 50%, sometimes to 60% or 70%, but rarely more than that. For those who do not know, the Supercharger gives you full charge speed up to 50%, then starts to slow down the closer you get to 100%. For travel with the Supercharger network you only need enough charge to get to the next Supercharger (plus a little safety margin for head-wind, and excess speed).

We never had to just sit there and wait for charge to get high enough. With the Tesla Model 3 charged to 50% you still get 110 miles. Even with a 30 mile reserve, you still have 80 miles of range which will get you to almost all the Superchargers on your route. If you need more, just charge more. If you don't, then charge to 50% and be on your way. In my opinion there really is no need for the 310 mile range version unless you have specific long distance trips off the Interstate highways that you would like to just drive for 250 to 300 miles, then stop...

I'll disagree a little. My S60 starts tapering long before 50% and takes twice as long to charge — given the slower charging and the need to charge to a much higher SOC — than a bigger battery car. Some Supercharger legs are currently 140+ miles and at highway speeds they take considerably more than the rated miles, so that means charging to a pretty high SOC in a car with a standard battery, especially if using heat or AC. Those longer Supercharger legs should get filled in eventually, but for now it would take a pretty long Supercharge in a standard battery car to make them.

I think the "standard" battery car would be fine for those who only do occasional road trips or those in no particular hurry when doing so — I fit this latter category. For serious road tripping get the "long range" battery.

 

[Graffi]

...On our recent 7,000 mile cross-country trip we would drive for 1 to 1.5 hours then stop for 10 to 20 minutes (potty break and walk around to get the blood flowing to our legs and feet). We would always charge to at least 50%, sometimes to 60% or 70%, but rarely more than that. For those who do not know, the Supercharger gives you full charge speed up to 50%, then starts to slow down the closer you get to 100%. For travel with the Supercharger network you only need enough charge to get to the next Supercharger (plus a little safety margin for head-wind, and excess speed).

We never had to just sit there and wait for charge to get high enough. With the Tesla Model 3 charged to 50% you still get 110 miles. Even with a 30 mile reserve, you still have 80 miles of range which will get you to almost all the Superchargers on your route. If you need more, just charge more. If you don't, then charge to 50% and be on your way. In my opinion there really is no need for the 310 mile range version unless you have specific long distance trips off the Interstate highways that you would like to just drive for 250 to 300 miles, then stop...

I'll disagree a little. My S60 starts tapering long before 50% and takes twice as long to charge — given the slower charging and the need to charge to a much higher SOC — than a bigger battery car. Some Supercharger legs are currently 140+ miles and at highway speeds they take considerably more than the rated miles, so that means charging to a pretty high SOC in a car with a standard battery, especially if using heat or AC. Those longer Supercharger legs should get filled in eventually, but for now it would take a pretty long Supercharge in a standard battery car to make them.

I think the "standard" battery car would be fine for those who only do occasional road trips or those in no particular hurry when doing so — I fit this latter category. For serious road tripping get the "long range" battery.

Elon did say that the number of Superchargers will triple by the end of 2018 when so many of the Model 3's will just begin their life. So the distance between Superchargers should be shorter by then.

 

[OrientExpress]

The question that many will have to ponder is: "do I get a barebones Tesla for $35K or a fully equipped LEAF for the same price?"

What is this 'fully equipped' LEAF you speak of ?

The SV or the SL will be better equipped than the base Tesla 3.

And as a side note, if I want to go 300 or more miles on a trip, I use a airplane.

 

[edatoakrun]

Corrections.

It looks like actual model 3 price starts at $49k (in any color, as long as it's black) at least for most of 2017, and the first deliveries to actual "customers" are still about three months out:

Will there still be a $35,000 Model 3 option?

Yes. Our first production Model 3 vehicles are preconfigured to ensure a smooth production ramp so that we can deliver more cars to more customers at a faster pace. The beginning configuration is a Long Range Battery with rear-wheel drive and premium upgrades, starting at $49,000. These vehicles come with three options for customization: wheel size, exterior color and Autopilot features.

Additional configurations, including the Model 3 with standard equipment for $35,000, will become available as production ramps, which we expect to be in November 2017.

We are shipping our first cars to employees now and expect to begin shipping the Long Range Battery configuration to customers in late October. The Standard Battery configuration will be available very soon thereafter.

https://www.tesla.com/support/model-3-reservations-faq

The only surprise in last night's event, was that there were no surprises...

Big takeaways, first cars are $44K.

$35K will get you a black car with black cloth interior....

When and if TSLA starts to build them:

...The base Tesla Model 3 was confirmed to have a price of $35,000...with deliveries to start in the Fall/November 2017...

http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-specs/

And if production is not quickly terminated due to "lack of demand", which you may recall was the excuse given by TSLA after having sold only a handful of the "~$50k" versions of the S.

Other helpful suggestions at the TSLA FAQs, BTW...

Is there a way to accelerate my Model 3 invitation and delivery?

Tesla owners receive priority Model 3 orders, so you can accelerate your Model 3 invitation and delivery by purchasing a Model S or Model X first...

 

[palmermd]

Elon did say that the number of Superchargers will triple by the end of 2018 when so many of the Model 3's will just begin their life. So the distance between Superchargers should be shorter by then.

A lot of that growth is addition chargers at existing stations so distance won't change in those cases.

 

[TomT]

It is an easy decision for me: Model 3!

The question that many will have to ponder is: "do I get a barebones Tesla for $35K or a fully equipped LEAF for the same price?"

 

[webeleafowners]

The question that many will have to ponder is: "do I get a barebones Tesla for $35K or a fully equipped LEAF for the same price?"

If it is for Local Driving only, then get the Leaf. If you wish to use it for long cross-country vacation driving then get the Tesla. Even the 200+ mile Leaf can not be practical for trips greater than 300 miles. jmho

Just curious. Why wouldn't a 200 mile leaf be practical for trips of 300 or greater miles?

 

[edatoakrun]

It is an easy decision for me: Model 3!

The question that many will have to ponder is: "do I get a barebones Tesla for $35K or a fully equipped LEAF for the same price?"

You just might want to hold off that decision until you can actually see the $35k model 3, as opposed to the over-$50k model 3s shown last night.

We may actually see the LEAF gen 2, including full specs and prices, before that happens.

On another subject, if the highest miles range/sales price is your primary concern when buying a BEV then you may want to buy a Bolt, which is already available at a price discounted far below the cost of any model 3 on that basis.

And I doubt Nissan will ever have to cut prices on the LEAF gen 2 will to match the Bolt on that metric.

 

[lorenfb]

Will there still be a $35,000 Model 3 option?

Yes. Our first production Model 3 vehicles are preconfigured to ensure a smooth production ramp so that we can deliver more cars to more customers at a faster pace. The beginning configuration is a Long Range Battery with rear-wheel drive and premium upgrades, starting at $49,000. These vehicles come with three options for customization: wheel size, exterior color and Autopilot features.

Additional configurations, including the Model 3 with standard equipment for $35,000, will become available as production ramps, which we expect to be in November 2017.

We are shipping our first cars to employees now and expect to begin shipping the Long Range Battery configuration to customers in late October. The Standard Battery configuration will be available very soon thereafter.

Right, the $35K Model 3 is basically a loss leader, i.e. used to "bate and switch". Very few, if any,
will ever be delivered in 2017. And in 2018, Tesla needs to begin to reduce losses and at least
approach a positive GAAP profitability, which further increases the likelihood that few if any $35K
Model 3s will be delivered. Based on the info in the above quote, the delivery date won't be prioritized
based on the reservation date initially. So for those even expecting a 2018 delivery with a reservation,
once the on-line ordering becomes available, only configured Model 3s with a price greater than
about $42K will ever see a delivery in 2018. Furthermore, Tesla should know by the end of 2017
how 'real' those 400K reservations are now that the Model 3 has been officially been presented
with the pricey add-ons many consumers thought to be included in the $35K price.

 

[OrientExpress]

Let me respond to these excellent questions with how I evaluated them.

The question that many will have to ponder is: "do I get a barebones Tesla for $35K or a fully equipped LEAF for the same price?"

You just might want to hold off that decision until you can actually see the $35k model 3, as opposed to the over-$50k model 3s shown last night.

We may actually see the LEAF gen 2, including full specs and prices before that happens.

On another subject, if the highest miles range/sales price is your primary concern when buying a BEV then you may want to buy a Bolt, which is already available at a price discounted far below the cost of any model 3 on that basis.

And I doubt Nissan will ever have to cut prices on the LEAF gen 2 will to match the Bolt on that metric.[/quote]

Yes, the LEAF's full specs will be available to the general public in about 35 days, and I think that Nissan will show that they know the sub $35K EV market better than anyone. Certainly better than GM, and most certainly better than Tesla. I look for Nissan to focus on a LEAF that has a starting price in the mid $20K range and to offer a car that for the time being is content to offer a less than 200-mile range, for at least one model year. This will allow them to offer a 200+ mile range car later that will keep the price tiers that the LEAF is known for intact. Expect a LEAF with 230+ range a bit after the initial launch of the car, but with the same price points as they have today. Nissan will not be undersold when the entire value proposition of their EV is considered.

GM's Bolt offering had an average ASP of $42K, which when combined with their value proposition went over like a lead balloon. This is why they have sold so poorly, and that now GM has to discount them with fire-sale pricing to get them off of dealers lots. On average, GM is losing about $9K on each Bolt that they move. On top of the costly battery component that they thought would be the one reason people would buy the car, they picked the wrong platform to build the car on. The Gamma Platform is a subcompact that is suited just fine for Asian and European markets but is way too narrow for American buyers. GM is already re-evaluating the future of this car in the Americas and there is a good chance that production will move to China to better serve that market. To your suggestion that I might want to consider buying a Bolt, I would say that that is highly unlikely.

Tesla on the other hand really does not care about the $35K and below market, but used the "Starting at $35K" tease to get buzz and attract those gullible enough to plop down $1K on the promise. I've been saying for many months that the Model 3 would have an average price starting about $45K, and it looks like that is exactly what they were planning all along. I've had the opportunity to sample the base Model 3 and to say that it is spartan is an understatement. A $35K Model 3 will be as rare as a Snipe, and finding one will be just as difficult. Those that pinned their EV aspirations on a $35K Tesla have some real soul searching to do.

 

[OrientExpress]

The question that many will have to ponder is: "do I get a barebones Tesla for $35K or a fully equipped LEAF for the same price?"

If it is for Local Driving only, then get the Leaf. If you wish to use it for long cross-country vacation driving, then get the Tesla. Even the 200+ mile Leaf can not be practical for trips greater than 300 miles. jmho

Just curious. Why wouldn't a 200-mile leaf be practical for trips of 300 or greater miles?

My 2¢ is that a 200+ Mile LEAF could be useful for a 300+ mile trip, but why? Long distance charging infrastructure is still in its infancy, with reliability and availability spotty regardless if it is a Supercharger or a Fast Charger.

Personally, if I am going 300+ miles on a trip like to LA or Vegas, I'm going to fly. It is cheaper, less stressful, and much faster. 80% of automobile travel is less than 50 miles, 10% is between 50 and 100 miles, and the rest is greater than 100 miles. The desire for 200+ miles of range is an old fashioned metric from legacy ICE travel. Today an EV with 100-150~200 miles of range is perfect because every night the car is recharged to its full range. Does it make sense to add $5-9K worth of extra capacity that you may only use a few times a year? I don't think so. Of course, there are exceptions to this, and for those edge cases, a conventional ICE or PHEV vehicle may be the better choice.

 

[abasile]

Personally, if I am going 300+ miles on a trip like to LA or Vegas, I'm going to fly. It is cheaper, less stressful, and much faster. 80% of automobile travel is less than 50 miles, 10% is between 50 and 100 miles, and the rest is greater than 100 miles.

For business travel over 300 miles, I agree that it usually makes sense to fly rather than drive. However, I wouldn't be too quick to count out ground transportation. A great many of us appreciate our long-range cars.

For families in particular, driving can be a lot less expensive and offers more flexibility. Drivers don't have to worry about limitations on checked baggage and they can carry all sorts of items that are tough if not illegal to take on planes. Also, I find it hard to ignore the fact that driving often comes with a much smaller carbon footprint than flying, particularly with an efficient car and/or multiple occupants.

Looking forward to the advent of mass market autonomous vehicles, I anticipate that a number of people will actually transition from flying to driving. To avoid the hassle and expense of flying, I think I'd prefer to sit in my own car (or a hired car) for six hours and let it take me directly from my home to my destination while I sleep, work, read, etc.

The desire for 200+ miles of range is an old fashioned metric from legacy ICE travel. Today an EV with 100-150~200 miles of range is perfect because every night the car is recharged to its full range. Does it make sense to add $5-9K worth of extra capacity that you may only use a few times a year? I don't think so. Of course, there are exceptions to this, and for those edge cases, a conventional ICE or PHEV vehicle may be the better choice.

Yes, limited-range EVs can be extremely useful, particularly when owned by families with multiple vehicles. However, I cannot agree that it's "old fashioned" to desire 200+ miles of range. Here in Southern California, it's not at all uncommon to take day trips to destinations that involve 100+ miles of travel each way. It's ideal when we can charge at each destination, but that's quite often not the case. Sure, in our part of the country, we have the luxury of being able to stop and fast charge a sub 200 mile EV, but it's so much nicer to not need to bother (I speak from experience both ways!).

If you're like us and you enjoy traveling to national parks and camping, then having lots of range becomes quite important. Please don't suggest that an ICE or PHEV might be a better choice for us or thousands of other Tesla owners!

Long distance charging infrastructure is still in its infancy, with reliability and availability spotty regardless if it is a Supercharger or a Fast charger.

I would agree with that characterization of CHAdeMO and CCS fast charging. However, Tesla Superchargers have proven to be quite reliable and they facilitate an amazing variety of cross country travel. Sure they aren't 100% perfect and there have been lines at some Superchargers, but I would not characterize the Supercharger network as being in its infancy - it's actually quite impressive.

 

[LeftieBiker]

You just might want to hold off that decision until you can actually see the $35k Model 3, as opposed to the over-$50k Model 3s shown last night.

We may actually see the LEAF gen 2, including full specs and prices before that happens.

Specs and options have been posted in the Bolt forum. OE is primarily shilling for Nissan here, as usual.

 

[LeftieBiker]

http://insideevs.com/tesla-model-3-specs/

Full Tesla Model 3 spec list:
STANDARD EQUIPMENT
Price – $35,000

Standard Battery

Range: 220 miles (EPA estimated)
Supercharging rate: 130 miles of range per 30 minutes
Home charging rate: 30 miles of range per hour (240V outlet, 32A)
Deliveries begin: Fall 2017
Performance

0-60 mph: 5.6 seconds
Top speed: 130 mph

Interior

15” touchscreen display
Dual zone climate control system
FM/Internet streaming radio
Textile seating
Front center console with open storage and two USB ports
Convenience

Onboard maps and navigation
Wi-Fi and LTE internet connectivity
Keyless entry and remote climate control using the Tesla app
Voice activated controls
Bluetooth hands-free calling and media streaming
60/40 split folding rear seat to maximize cargo options
Back-up camera
Auto dimming rear-view mirror
One-touch power windows throughout
Power-adjustable side mirrors
12-volt power outlet
Safety

Full LED exterior lighting
Eight cameras, forward radar and twelve ultrasonic sensors enabling active safety technologies including collision avoidance and automatic emergency braking
Six front row and two side curtain airbags
Three-point safety belts with belt-reminders for driver and four passengers
Two LATCH (Lower Anchors and Tethers for Children) attachments in second row
Electronic stability and traction control
Four-wheel antilock disc brakes with electronic parking brake
Child safety locks
Anti-theft alarm system
Tire pressure monitoring system
Warranty

Vehicle: 4 year, 50,000 mile limited warranty
Battery warranty: 8 year, 100,000 mile (120,000 mile with Long Range Battery)

OPTIONS
Long Range Battery – $9,000

Range: 310 miles
Supercharging rate: 170 miles of range per 30 minutes
Home charging rate: 37 miles of range per hour (240V outlet, 40A)
0-60 mph: 5.1 seconds
Top speed: 140 mph
Deliveries begin: July 2017
Paint

Solid Black: Standard
Midnight Silver Metallic: $1,000
Deep Blue Metallic: $1,000
Silver Metallic: $1,000
Pearl White Multi-Coat: $1,000
Red Multi-Coat: $1,000
Wheels

18” Aero: Standard
19” Sport: $1,500

Premium Upgrades Package – $5,000
Upgraded interior with additional features and premium materials.

Premium heated seating and cabin materials throughout, including open pore wood décor and two rear USBs
12-way, power adjustable front seats, steering column and side mirrors, with custom driver profiles
Premium audio system with more power, tweeters, surround speakers and subwoofer
Tinted glass roof with ultraviolet and infrared protection
Auto dimming, power folding, heated side mirrors
LED fog lamps
Center console with covered storage and docking for two smartphones

Enhanced Autopilot – $5,000
Model 3 will match speed to traffic conditions, keep within a lane, automatically change lanes, transition from one freeway to another, exit the freeway and self-park at your destination.

Additional features will roll out over time through software updates.

Full Self-Driving Capability – $3,000 (requires Enhanced Autopilot)
In the future, Model 3 will be capable of conducting trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat.

This feature is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary by jurisdiction.

VEHICLE SPECIFICATIONS
Dimensions & Weight

Length: 184.8”
Width: 72.8” (76.1” with mirrors folded)
Height: 56.8”
Wheelbase: 113.2”
Track (wheel center): 62.2” front and rear
Ground clearance: 5.5”
Head room, standard: 39.6” front row, 37.7” second row
Head room, glass roof: 40.3” front row, 37.7” second row
Leg room: 42.7” front row, 35.2” second row
Shoulder room: 56.3” front row, 54.0” second row
Hip room: 53.4” front row, 52.4” second row
Seating capacity: 5 adults
Luggage capacity: 15 cubic feet
Curb weight:
3549 lbs. (Model 3)
3814 lbs. (Model 3 Long Range)
Weight distribution:
47% front, 53% rear (Model 3)
48% front, 52% rear (Model 3 Long Range)
Body

Hybrid steel/aluminum body
Drag coefficient of 0.23
Chassis

Double wishbone, virtual steer axis front suspension with coil over twin-tube shock absorbers and stabilizer bar
Independent multi-link rear suspension with twin-tube shock absorbers and stabilizer bar
Variable ratio, speed sensitive electronic power steering
Electromechanically boosted four wheel anti-lock disc brakes with electronic brake force distribution
18” Aero or 19” Sport wheels with all-season tires
Standard Accessories

240 volt NEMA 14-50 adapter
120 volt NEMA 5-15 adapter
J1772 public charging adapter
20 foot mobile connector with storage bag
EV Arsenal:
Current: (2 LEAFs) 2015, 2016 & 09 Ford Escape Hybrid
Past: 2013 Rav4 EV, 2013 LEAF

 

[GRA]

So, Bolt EPA Hwy range is 217.4 miles (255 city, 238 combined), so we'll see whether or not the Model 3 can beat it on Hwy range. I suspect it will, but perhaps only slightly. OTOH, I was wrong that they'd put a big enough battery on the base car to have at least 239 miles of EPA range. Don't know whether that was due to cost-containment (keeping to the $35k base price, even if almost no one will pay that), or the Bolt came out too late to allow the Model 3's base battery pack design to be changed.

 

[scottf200]

Long distance charging infrastructure is still in its infancy, with reliability and availability spotty regardless if it is a Supercharger or a Fast charger.

I would agree with that characterization of CHAdeMO and CCS fast charging. However, Tesla Superchargers have proven to be quite reliable and they facilitate an amazing variety of cross country travel. Sure they aren't 100% perfect and there have been lines at some Superchargers, but I would not characterize the Supercharger network as being in its infancy - it's actually quite impressive.

Wow, OE can spin it. Certainly Tesla is way beyond infancy. Grey is supposed to be 2017. Lot of construction cones showing only what is known crowd sourced. Last night Elon stated the superchargers would triple by the end of 2018 (see SC thread).