NY Times: When Electric Car Owners Talk, Nissan Listens

[OrientExpress]

I'm already getting grief that my Horn mod may cause undue harm to individuals who are scared by an electric car with such a loud beep!

 

[TonyWilliams]

"And there will be guaranteed"  Can you please back that irresponsible fear mongering statement up. I say this because your statement implies it will happen related to the EVSE upgrade. You don't specify a generic EV fire. 

In the case of the fire with the Volt. I am very suspicious of this entire incident....

I didn't specify any failures of any kind. My statement only implies what I believe is the likely outcome of any incident in which has that "bad" EVSE within 10 miles.

You infer it means something else, which you're certainly able to do. I agree with your thoughts; I doubt the Volt had anything to so with any fire anywhere, and I'm also sure that it cost GM some money. If you have even a basic understanding of our tort law situation in the USA, of bad, misinformed press, and public perception, this won't need explaining.

... people even like Mark Perry that make fear-based statements on topics they have little knowledge.

I suspect he knows exactly what the EVSE can and cannot do, and if he didn't, somebody with a PhD is a speed dial phone call away.

 fear is the new intelligence in America not facts and reason.  DI you know EVs pollute more than ICE cars because of electricity form Coal?  

Yes, check out the guy who posted on this forum that his car only goes 67 miles, so he wants a class action lawsuit. 

So, I think you make my point perfectly. I have the utmost respect for Phil and his product (of which I have the 2nd generation version), and am also cognizant that what ever we "in the know" think, the rest of the world thinks different. I'm also suggesting that this article actual INCREASES his liability exposure. 

Since I work in the aviation business, let me suggest that not everything you read in the paper about that industry is  what we "experts" in that industry think.

It is AUTOMATIC to get sued for any aviation incident. And, it really doesn't matter what the facts are, or who is right or wrong, but I can tell you who will pay every time (hint; not Joe Sixpack).

Finally, yes, there will be another fire in the USA with an electric car somewhere to blame, as the articles about the Volt incident were quick to do.

They will actually cite the Volt incident as "proof" that there MIGHT be something wrong with EVs. All Nissan has to say is, "we think that car had an unsafe, unapproved device that MAY have caused the fire", even though neither the car, nor the EVSE had anything to do with it. Nissan is just trying to limit their liability.

Now, please explain how a brain dead group of twelve jurors might decide about that EVSE? The easy answer; you pay out of court and don't take the chance.

That's why we have insurance.

 

[Herm]

There will be suits..

 

[SanDust]

The article was great.

No reason to pillory Mark Perry on this one. All he said is that Nissan wouldn't endorse it because the modified device wasn't UL approved. Standard CYA stuff. Realistically he couldn't say anything else.

As for the fire with the Volt and the EV conversion, I think ultimately it was determined there was a short on a circuit which didn't run to either car. The reason the story disappeared is that while an EV bursting into flames is good fodder for newscasters, a run of the mill fire started by old electrical wiring is a yawner.

I haven't gotten the modified EVSE because I'm leasing and I don't want to mess with getting an replacement at the end of the lease. But I have no doubt it's perfectly safe. As EVDRIVER points out, all it does is deliver current, so ultimately it's not so different than a simple cord.

 

[thankyouOB]

does anyone know what this is supposed to mean?

earned at the University of California, Berkeley in the free-speech 1960s,

“At this point in my life, my goal is to spend whatever time I have trying to help E.V.’s become successful,” Mr. Giddings said. He is using his Ph.D. in electrical engineering, earned at the University of California, Berkeley in the free-speech 1960s, to correct some of the Leaf’s shortcomings and to squeeze more performance out of it.

that he is, and we are, some kind of dirty fucking hippies?
that is who drives these cars?

 

[evnow]

Already one electric car made national news when the garage burnt down. If it had been a Nissan, and an "unapproved" electric "hack", I think my scenario is certainly reasonable.

yes - but that guy had a DIY EV.

 

[Yodrak]

Tony's full statement implies no such thing. The rest of the sentence, which you failed to quote, said nothing about actual cause and was very clear that would be lawyers who get involved who would point to a modified EVSE as a possible cause. And they will, because it's their job to point fingers in directions other than their client's direction.

Hopefully, if such an event occurs that goes to court, the technical experts will be able to both correctly determine the cause and present convincing testimony so that the lawyers for the responsible party cannot push off some or all of the blame onto others.

"And there will be guaranteed" Can you please back that irresponsible fear mongering statement up. I say this because your statement implies it will happen related to the EVSE upgrade. You don't specify a generic EV fire. Many idiots may start garage fires with cobbled together EV conversions with wires dangling and unsafe chargers.

 

[Nubo]

I hope what Nissan takes away from this, is not a big concern over hacked EVSE, but a clear realization that their so-called "range indicator" is so ill-conceived that people felt the need to reverse-engineer a replacement.

 

[BlueSL]

that he is, and we are, some kind of dirty fucking hippies?
that is who drives these cars?

I doubt that.

Perhaps he meant that some of us are the kind of people who have shift keys on our keyboards yet refuse to use them at the beginning of a sentence. What negative connotations can be drawn from that?

 

[TEG]

In addition moderators have different buttons on their pages and at times they accidentally hit "edit" and not reply...

Forum moderators should be very careful with their "powers". Editing someone's post by mistake is (IMHO) a serious lapse.

 

[EVDRIVER]

In addition moderators have different buttons on their pages and at times they accidentally hit "edit" and not reply...

Forum moderators should be very careful with their "powers". Editing someone's post by mistake is (IMHO) a serious lapse.

Teg- This happens easily on many forms but the post was not edited the response was in the body of his post rather than after as a response so it was not changed. It was also immediately corrected as it should be and explained. If you have ever moderated a forum you may know the edit and quote buttons are close for moderators so every time a moderator posts it is very easy to accidentally hit edit instead. I sometimes quote myself when I intend to edit :shock: This used to happen on the Aptera forum as well, our controls are different then the normal members. In no way will a moderator ever edit someones post here, it will not be allowed here.

 

[TEG]

Yes, I was an active moderator on various forums in the past... Not currently though.
VBB can be set to show edit notes at the bottom of posts ("last edited by XYZ at time/date") if they want to track that.
Although those with administrator privs may be able to silently edit even if you turn on that option for moderators.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes, I was an active moderator on various forums in the past... Not currently though.
VBB can be set to show edit notes at the bottom of posts ("last edited by XYZ at time/date") if they want to track that.

The forum that I moderate uses vBulletin® v3.8.6, and has the "last edited" feature.

Works good.

But, I've still made the edit/quote mistake !!!!

 

[dgpcolorado]

In sharp contrast to the nicely done NYT article mentioned in the OP comes this:

USA Today: "Nissan betting big on electric cars despite poor sales"

>sigh<

 

[davewill]

In sharp contrast to the nicely done NYT article mentioned in the OP comes this:

USA Today: "Nissan betting big on electric cars despite poor sales"

>sigh<

Sent them a note:

Right facts, wrong analysis. Nissan has sold every single LEAF they were able to make. Had they made more, they would have sold more. In fact, they sold more than the GM did the Volt...which also means nothing as GM has also sold all they could make. Dumb article.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2011/10/nissan-leaf-poor-sales/1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not that it will do any good.

 

[BlueSL]

The article is fairly tepid.

The writers do not author the headlines. The headline was completely bone-headed.

 

[mwalsh]

It's getting real tiring responding to either bonehead reporters or bonehead comments after such articles. Some raise legitimate points, sure. But most are just d'bags (paid or otherwise) looking to troll crap.

 

[gascant]

Wow, I can't believe how long it took me to find this thread and the direction it has taken! Maybe it was the fact that I was up in the Napa Valley last weekend doing a bunch of winery hopping in the LEAF--278 miles covered over a long weekend. It kept me from joining one of the local National Plug In Day events, but we celebrated privately:

The author of both articles, Brad Berman, did actually interview a local Electrical Engineer (well known to many EAA members) about the safety of the EVSE upgrade. The first draft of the article included a quote, but it got edited out before being published. So, the intent was there and I can tell you he did a lot of research for those articles.

The "soon to be sued" OrientExpress (Gary) runs the horn upgrade clinic at each of our meetings--so far we've done at least 10 upgrades. I've just bought a set of daytime running lights and will be tapping his expertise to help install.

And, yes to Boomer, I am Howard. I find the places to meet and bring the bagels and coffee. We have quite an active group with very broad backgrounds. It's the members who make us successful.

So the real question is whether Nissan is actually listening? We'll find out soon. One of our members, linkim, arranged the meeting that we'll have with the LEAF Chief Vehicle Engineer on December 3rd. I'm sure you've seen the thread.

Finally, hats off to the folks like Phil and Gary (who, to my knowledge, has never called it the "giddyometer" though that does have a ring to it) and others who post regularly here at MNL forum. Countless mods did not make the NY Times article but we will present a lot of them to Nissan at the December 3rd meeting.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Here are some more pictures of the "New York Times Adapter", so named since it debuted in the times that splits out one 30A circuit to charge two LEAFs, via a number of other adapters and the EVSE Upgrade http://evseupgrade.com/, thank you Phil!. The heart of this setup is the L6-30 Plug connector to two L6-20 Receptacle connectors. This is in response to a request I received for better images of the adapter. There's 10 images here so the requestor can pick the one that he likes best.

The J1772 to NEMA 14-50 R adapter is from Modular EV Power http://modularevpower.com/J1772_adapters.htm

 

[ElectricVehicle]

Continued... Aha... Attachments are limited to 256 kiB per attachment, 3 max per post.