Nissan to double US sales of electric Leaf: Ghosn

[evnow]

For tens of millions of people, it would be their only car. They have to have a car that can go short distances and long distances. Why is this so hard to understand?

Don't look at people who can't use it - but at people who can.

There are about 100 million households in the US. More than 60 Million of those households have multiple cars. That is the target for Leaf.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

There are about 100 million households in the US. More than 60 Million of those households have multiple cars. That is the target for Leaf.

Target market = multi-car households where on any given day at least one of the drivers predictably has usage within the Leaf's range and have control over their parking location. That is a lot of people.

For those times when the Leaf isn't suitable for your needs, Nissan is more than happy to sell you one of their other models to park alongside your Leaf - and will frequently send you email reminders of this.

 

[Roadburner440]

I so wish you were correct on our impact being miniscule! I've visited coral reefs all over the world and seen first hand the devastating impact of warming and acidification. There is zero doubt that we are profoundly altering life on the plant and it does have its limits. Life persists on remarkably narrow margines here.

Maybe I am ignorant. To me the reefs dying are from the vast pollution that has gone on in the ocean. Being in the Navy myself, and sailed quite a lot of waters shipping is at the very least extremely dirty. For the life of me I cannot understand why being outside of 25 miles it is ok to throw trash overboard, or why over 50 miles or so it is ok to discharge bilge water (with oils, fuels, and the like)... To me it is stuff like this that has killed the reefs. It is a touchy subject to say the least. I definately agree with you that pollution is a huge problem, and it is killing things on this Earth. I have seen quite a bit of stuff myself that is truly sad. From deforestation of huge swaths of land in my home state to extreme water pollution where I am at now.

I guess to sum my point up I maybe was not clear. In my mind we have a miniscule impact on the global temperature.. Is why I mentioned: "Now nuclear pollution, and obviously other forms of environmental damage we are most certaintly responsible for, and all of their associated side effects." To me that includes the acidic rain, the stuff I mentioned above, and all the other damage we are doing to the Earth. That we are having a HUGE impact in that is definately noticeable even to myself. Again though the Earth will go on without us. Even if we were to wipe all visible large forms of life off the Earth the microbes and its ilk would start over again. It would not be pretty by any stretch, but it would happen.

 

[smkettner]

Well YTD Nissan Leaf is 7 times 2011 sales. Next couple months will be interesting if they can keep it to 2x last year.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

there is a huge market and its actually 179 million households and 90 million multi cars options out there. including 20 million households that have 3 or more DAILY Drivers. but that is not the point.

there are a million reasons to do the Leaf, cost, coolness, financial impact and environment. its my belief that cost is the immediate concern but environment should be the biggest.

one poster does not like "zero emission?" what if i told you that all the emissions from every car that ever burned a fuel does not compare to the environmental damaged cause to dig, drill or pump that fuel out of the ground?

BP matched 30 years of car emission 2 springs ago and although that incident is first to mind, it is in an encyclopedia of fossil fuel mishaps

A series i watched the other day "How the Universe Works" a Discovery Channel Series illustrates the multitudes of parameters that allowed us to be created on this planet. there is not a lot of leeway here.

Water is the most overwhelming substance on this Earth but comprises less than .003% by weight or mass. fact is, just slightly less water or more water and we would not be here. we are no where near the wettest place in the universe. we are just right.

but that is how this entire planet is. its a balance that we are pushing the limits on. is it too late?? dk, but the alternative is to give up.

like a team that score 2 touchdowns in the last 90 seconds to win the game, we might still have some say in our children's future.

 

[Herm]

BP matched 30 years of car emission 2 springs ago and although that incident is first to mind, it is in an encyclopedia of fossil fuel mishaps

The scary part is the vast amounts of oil that continually leak from the sea floor, whether BP drills or not. I'm more worried about coal burning power plants.

 

[tps]

For tens of millions of people, it would be their only car. They have to have a car that can go short distances and long distances. Why is this so hard to understand? Because most here are affluent enough to own two cars, have a house with a garage and wired for 220.

I am not what would normally be considered affluent. I am one of those for whom the LEAF is my only car. I don't need a car for long distance travel often enough to worry about the hassle of owning a second car; I can rent if the need arises. The shared garage at the house where I rent does have a 60A 240V subpanel. Putting a 40A 240V circuit on it for a 30A EVSE would have been a problem, but the 16A 240V Leviton unit has worked out well for me. I love the LEAF! Best car I've ever had!

 

[Roadburner440]

one poster does not like "zero emission?" what if i told you that all the emissions from every car that ever burned a fuel does not compare to the environmental damaged cause to dig, drill or pump that fuel out of the ground?

Coal, uranium, and natural gas, and lithium are mined/fracked as well. Not to mention damming up rivers has also caused land slides, and caused environmental damage as well. Nothing in this world is zero sum except solar and wind power. Until the grid is 100% renewable or everyone with 1 of these cars has solar panels on their roof the "Zero Emission" stuff is a sales pitch. I am not saying this cars are worse, by far I do not think they are. Driving my Volt on electric cuts my emissions over gasoline in half with 38% nuclear and the rest coal in my area). Saying that they are zero emission just cause they do not have a tail pipe though in my mind is defeating the purpose. We definately need to be smart about what we tell people however. Telling them these cars are zero emissions, and putting this stuff all over the car turns the average person off. While they may not understand completely how the process works they know we use a lot of coal power, and that coal is dirty. I like referring to the energy used by these cars in BTU's as it gives me a point to go off of, and relate that back to emissions of these vehicles. Not to mention comparing BTU's used by electrics vs a gas car really shows just how inefficient the ICE vehicles really are. When every gallon of gasoline contains 115,000BTU's of potential energy, and the average car only goes about 25-30 miles. Then you tell them an electric car goes 3.5-4.5 miles on 3400BTU's (1kwh) and that when scaled up the electric will travel over 110 miles on the same energy.

Now people don't have to like what I say, but I am a firm believer that when people ask me questions about these cars that I tell them the truth. A lot of times you would be amazed about how when you tell them the truth instead of trying to sell the line of "these cars don't emit anything because they don't have tail pipes" actually gets more people on board. Not to mention getting ourselves off of foreign oil slowly, and keeping more energy dollars in our economy can only do more good. Obviously solar and nuclear power is the ultimate goal, but that is still a long ways off. It is just about giving people good, and honest information to bring them to a reasonable decision. That is why the badges will be coming off of my Leaf.

As far as the BP spill goes again that is pollution which is extremely bad. I personally would like to see more light shed on what really happened, and what the REAL damage is. I read reports about there being sludge on the sea floor still, and underwater oil pockets floating in the Gulf. It is certaintly a shame. Coal burning plants while bad, are still easier to control than 200 million tail pipes. In the near future until we move toward alternatives it is just something we will need to deal with. Uranium production is on a down slope, so at best it will be a stop gap to whatever technology takes over from coal/oil/nuclear. In my mind solar seems to be the only way to go, but need some type of power source to carry through night time. I have read the average Japanese person only uses 10-12kwh of electricity a day. I know in my house we use about 34kwh a day, and we are on the low side. I think most in the country use over 50-60kwh/day. So whatever we go to next is going to have to follow along with conservation efforts as well. People want EV's that will go 300+ miles, but in the future energy will not be as cheap, or readily available as it is now. People do not want to change their lifestyles but at some point they will not have a choice. Especially if it hits the fan in the Middle East, we hit peak oil, or demand in China/India goes through the roof (although China did lower its growth forecast for the year, but they are still growing about triple the rate of the US market). We shall see what the future holds though.

 

[thankyouOB]

my bad

 

[Roadburner440]

Is cool. I will go away. I got what I needed anyway. Not to mention I donated to the forum which the vast majority probably have not. I have a car on order, but it is what it is.

 

[Nekota]

you sure post allot in one month for someone without a Leaf.
it is almost troll-like.

We all started posting a lot when we join this board since the EV LEAF is indeed something to be excited about. For more than a year we posted and speculated so why does having a LEAF have anything to do with posting? Many of rb440's comments have been echoed before and I sense a true passion for the vehicle and welcome rb's comments. The only suggestion I would offer is I have found the search feature with google to be an effective source of information. I appreciate this boards moderation efforts to encourage the use of old threads with the search feature to help promote consolidation of the information. And this board has been a tremendously useful resource thanks to all those who ask questions and provide answers.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

RoadRunner; you are welcome to say what you want. there are several here i disagree with and no matter what information is presented, they will not change their position but that is human nature. there is still a lot to gain from the interaction

as far as your "emission free" post. you stated all energy has emissions but wind and solar and that is where we need to be. we have a long way to go (hydro is pretty clean as well) but to get there we need to realign our current need with long term viability.

now, this may seem like off topic, but our most pressing concern right now is not oil, gas or the Middle East. its the future of our fresh water supply. to be frank; anything that is proven to be detrimental to that water supply needs to be assessed as to whether or not an alternative is available

certain types of drilling involve the need for much more water than others. we need to take a good hard look at what we are drilling for. said benefit of the item being produced, and how difficult it would be to replace that item

 

[smkettner]

I would think with a 99 mpge rating, Leaf equivelent emissions would be half that of a Prius and maybe 20% of the typical automobile.

 

[Herm]

As far as the BP spill goes again that is pollution which is extremely bad. I personally would like to see more light shed on what really happened, and what the REAL damage is. I read reports about there being sludge on the sea floor still, and underwater oil pockets floating in the Gulf.

The surprising thing about the whole mess is how well the use of emulsifiers and solvents worked in dispersing the huge amounts of oil.. and then letting nature clean it up. There is hope the next big spill wont be as bad.

There were many complaints about the large amounts of solvents used, injected into the oil before it could reach the surface.

 

[DaveEV]

The surprising thing about the whole mess is how well the use of emulsifiers and solvents worked in dispersing the huge amounts of oil.. and then letting nature clean it up.

You seem to be implying that the affects of the spill are pretty much done by this point. I only wish that were true.

The Gulf still has a long ways to go. Fishermen still report low catches. Many oyster beds were completely decimated and will takes years to recover.

And it appears that there is still significant seeping from the Macondo well.

 

[Yanquetino]

I would think with a 99 mpge rating, Leaf equivelent emissions would be half that of a Prius and maybe 20% of the typical automobile.

Not really, depending upon the type of power plant. You might want to try using my program to determine the difference in greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions for your area of the country:

Utility to Compare "Tailpipes"


For example, in my area, the EPA estimates 150 grams GHG/mile for the Leaf. This means that charging it from the grid "upstream" would produce 33.07 lbs. of GHG per 100 miles driven. The Prius, in comparison, produces 49.00 lbs. of GHG per 100 miles from the tailpipe + "upstream."

Using the national average of 230 grams/mile, however, the Prius actually produces 1.71 lbs. less than the Leaf per 100 miles. I'll be curious to hear what the difference is in your area.

In reality, however, in my case there is no contest, because I produce zero emissions with my solar array.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

which is the ENTIRE point here. you have the opportunity to get your Leaf Juice nearly emission free. there is nothing even close in liquid fuels.

the other thing about comparing emissions of a Leaf to another car burning gasoline; why do we penalize the Leaf by using "Fossil Fuels" for generating electricity?

i see this argument on EV bashing sites all the time but why are we bringing it here? it is not the Leaf's fault that some areas have dirtier electricity. its THEIR fault. every single square inch of this country has green power options and have made their decisions (with the help of big business no doubt)

i guess what really counts now is what they are doing to clean up their act. some areas have started and are doing very well albeit the timetable is extended way beyond my comfort level, but at least its something.

 

[BRBarian]

For example, in my area, the EPA estimates 150 grams GHG/mile for the Leaf. This means that charging it from the grid "upstream" would produce 33.07 lbs. of GHG per 100 miles driven. The Prius, in comparison, produces 49.00 lbs. of GHG per 100 miles from the tailpipe + "upstream."

I'm wondering if your upstream calculations are accurate. Oil needs to be refined, but coal does not. Oil is generally transported further and at greater energy costs.

And finally, I'm guessing that you're missing a big chunk of the upstream cost.

If you calculate the energy costs of producing a nice steak, do you take a discount for the energy costs of producing leather? In other words is the energy cost of producing both steak and leather the same as either? If what truly drives oil production is the demand for gasoline, then why do you get a GHG credit for byproducts like asphalt and plastics that also add CO2 to the biosphere?

 

[TomT]

Even that is not true. The manufacture, transport, sale, installation, etc. of the devices necessary for solar and wind energy production use resources and create emissions and environmental issues. Plus, many of the sites that are used for commercial large solar or wind projects are very sensitive to such installations and they are are possibly significant, on-going, negative ramifications from such installations.

Not that any of this is on-topic for this thread of course...

Nothing in this world is zero sum except solar and wind power.

 

[adric22]

which is the ENTIRE point here. you have the opportunity to get your Leaf Juice nearly emission free. there is nothing even close in liquid fuels.

I would have to disagree. Hydrogren, while not economically viable at this point and technically a gas and not a liquid, could be just about as clean. Also there have been experiments in using liquid nitrogen and using the expansion as it changes phases from liquid to gas in order to move a car. That would technically be a liquid fuel and zero emission. Well, at least a net-zero emission since you would be removing nitrogen from the atmosphere, then releasing it back.