Level 3 Charging Updates - SAE Meetings

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Gah...another thing that will be affected by if I buy or lease...

In New Mexico we have no quick chargers...and probably won't have any for a while...

But if I buy the LEAF, I would get the level 3 port to future proof the LEAF

If I lease, I wouldn't get the level 3 port as I have no need for it and no place to use it...at least not for a couple of years.

Gavin
 
garygid said:
1. So the proposed "combined L2/L3 conector" has a flap on a flap?

This is for the J-1772 & Chademo.

Check the pictures. The two separate ports are always latched - just like the gas one. When connecting the cable, you open the latch and charge. After disconnecting, just close the latch. I think the small door we see in the front, won't close if any of the two flaps/latches are open.
 
evnow said:
AndyH said:
The CHAdeMO DC fast charging connector and assembly is now an Underwriters Labs approved EV charging method in the USA.

It's currently the only approved fast charging method in the US...

Hmmm... so what happenned to the single port ? Dead ... or is it VHS vs BETA ?

I'm still digesting. Six pages of notes plus other briefing material. Don't know about the Leaf yet, but have a much better idea of how the SAE process fits into the world's EV charging conversation.

As a quickie overview, though, consider that China - the world's largest EV market - has just created and deployed their first EV charge infrastructure completely on their own. It's a small fleet demo program and not for public consumption. In addition, we have the J1772 L1/L2 connector for the North American market, and (if I recall correctly) three possible connectors for the European market. Then we have the CHAdeMO DC fast charge standard, and the J1772 hybrid DC fast charge standard-wanna-be.

A large part of the SAE's J1772 process appears to be about world-wide charging harmonization. Not necessarily using the same connectors everywhere, but coordinating signaling, connection possibilities, overall connector sizes, etc. so that a car made for the Japanese market, for example, can be fitted with one connector for that market, and can be fitted with a connector for the Euro market that works with their infrastructure. The actual physical connector might be different, but the overall function and overall method of operation is similar enough to, or provides enough function overlap, so that only a connector change is necessary.

One other comment, since this has caused fear in other message threads - there were at least 28 folks in today's meeting from most of the auto manufacturers, from charger companies, wire/connector companies, national labs, and large utility companies. When the folks are wearing their SAE hats, they are not working for their respective companies - they're working for and representing the SAE. The stated goal of the J1772 process is to get the connectors right the first time. They really want to get connectors to OEMs by the end of the year, but their first goal is to get it right first. A gent that works for GM when not wearing his SAE hat clearly stated that we'd not likely see a level 3 connector of any type on a Volt. It's very likely that the J1772 Task Force is not 'dragging their feet' in order to get back at any EV. ;)

The good news is that the J1772 connector and process is getting attention from most of the world. The J1772 connector has a clear advantage today because all the auto players can get the final spec to do what they want it to do, as compared with the relatively 'fixed' and 'complete' CHAdeMO standard. The flip side is that CHAdeMO is a completed standard with cars and chargers on the road while the J1772 hybrid connector (hybrid because it's a L3 add-on to an existing L1/L2 port) is still vaporware. And auto manufacturers really want to get EVs on the road by the end of the year and/or need connectors to keep vehicle programs moving - something Chrysler and BMW, for example, made clear...
 
garygid said:
1. So the proposed "combined L2/L3 conector" has a flap on a flap?

Open one flap to expose the L2 part, and open the 2nd flap
to access the whole L3 part?

Does one need to hold the L3 flap down while opening the L2 part
(requiring two hands)?
No. The connector is not complete so there's no decision on final door configuration. Everything is designed for single-handed operation, though.

garygid said:
Are any of the L2 pins used for the L3 charging?
Yes :p

garygid said:
In any case, there would be two different plugs, one for L1/L2 EVSEs,
and a different one on the e-hose of the L3 "e-pump".
Possible but unlikely. The plug is simply a shell that would only need to carry wiring necessary for the specific function. All L1/L2 capability stays in the round portion, for example. Part of the design spec is weatherproof connections - and that includes both the protective door and connector when plugged in. This suggests that the final connector shell will include capability to be L1, L2, or L3 as required but will properly seal the entire connector when in use.

garygid said:
It seems to me that the cost of two sockets (as is done now in the Nissan)
would be essentially the same as that of this new BIG "combined" socket.
Doubtful. The new connector is not big, and will clearly be smaller and lighter than a CHAdeMO connector.
 
'Morning. I've taken some time to digest my notes from yesterday in hopes of providing some insight into how the 'sausage making' process will affect the Leaf. The best I can say is "I Can't."

The J1772 process is a high-level standards-creation and worldwide EV charging harmonization process. Once the process is complete, there will be another possible charging interface for the world's electric cars and plug-in hybrids. In the end, the auto manufacturers and charge infrastructure builders will have to decide which way to go.

It's not just a US problem. There are competing connectors and methods in Europe as well. China is just getting into the standards act. Korea's SAE is creating a liaison with the US SAE for charging.

The world community is sharing notes and working toward harmonization of signaling, wiring options, and charge/control methods - so that a car manufactured in China can be used in North America or Europe after changing only the charge connector on the car. This means that wiring has to be adaptable, signaling compatible, chargers smart and configurable enough, etc. National electric standards and codes are changing, ISO and IEC standards are being created and/or modified...it's a huge interconnected web of 'problem' to get a new connector ready for use.

The DC fast charging add-on for the J1772 connector is not just a US 'problem' - it's designed to be used with the larger Euro L2 connector as well - and that adds another level of coordination.

Fit testing happened yesterday. Car-side and EVSE-side connectors from five manufacturers fit and worked perfectly - mechanically and electrically.

The committee found a need for adjustments and more tweaking in July and again in August. It appears that the connector design and all parameters are almost complete.

Once the connector design is complete, there is Department of Energy money available for rapid production tooling and implementation. The target is still to have production-level connectors on the street by year's end, but the committee also recognizes that this would require shortening their desired abuse testing. Plenty can happen either way, but a conservative estimate is that we'll have connectors available 1st quarter of 2011.

The final US L3 / DC fast charging process, once the J1772 connector is finalized, is for the committee to put the TEPCO/CHAdeMO connector on the table next to the final J1772 connector and then vote on which will be the accepted North American charging path.

In the mean time, auto manufacturers NEED a standard and available connectors so they can continue vehicle development and/or deliver fully-functioning cars. CHAdeMO is becoming the defacto standard.

Here's what the charge connector process looks like from a European perspective. The J1772 process is included here. There's good stuff for those wanting to understand the 'big picture':
http://www.park-charge.ch/documents/EV_infrastructure_strategy.pdf
STRATEGY FOR EUROPEAN EV & PHEV CONDUCTIVE
CHARGING INFRASTURCTURE: ANALYSIS OF THE SITUATION
By http://www.protoscar.com , and Eduard Stolz - Park&Charge
September 10th, 2009
Interesting points on the charger size challenge - it talks to why 3.3kW chargers will be max for most vehicles in the near term:

up to 3.7kW on board chargers (with possibility to further limit the current)
will be the only EU-standard for EV-home charger. Higher, and multiphase,
will –if the market pays for the service- be offered only as an option
(eventually by companies installing “big batteries”, such as TESLA or
Daimler)
For home charge, 3,7kW (1 phase) shall be the maximum power supplied.
Wiring is nationally and even locally different in terms of quantity and size of
cables and cannot be standardized.
 
AndyH said:
The CHAdeMO DC fast charging connector and assembly is now an Underwriters Labs approved EV charging method in the USA.

It's currently the only approved fast charging method in the US...

Sorry to bring back old thread but thanks for a very good news.

Do you have a link for more information?
Does this means just CHAdeMo connector assembly is UL approved?
Is there any news for When CHAdeMO DC fast charger will be UL listed?
 
ht2 said:
AndyH said:
The CHAdeMO DC fast charging connector and assembly is now an Underwriters Labs approved EV charging method in the USA.

It's currently the only approved fast charging method in the US...

Sorry to bring back old thread but thanks for a very good news.

Do you have a link for more information?
Does this means just CHAdeMo connector assembly is UL approved?
Is there any news for When CHAdeMO DC fast charger will be UL listed?
Link? Sorry, no. I've reported all I know in the preceding posts. The info on the UL approval came from one of the SAE meetings.

Though my observation might be incorrect, I got the strong impression that there is no need to have UL approval for the L3 chargers as they are 'commercial/industrial' devices and not designed for home installation. The devices on the market today appear to have a number of approvals that allow them to be installed, connected to the grid, and used to recharge vehicles.

More info here on devices and manufacturers:http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2501
 
AndyH said:
ht2 said:
AndyH said:
The CHAdeMO DC fast charging connector and assembly is now an Underwriters Labs approved EV charging method in the USA.

It's currently the only approved fast charging method in the US...

Sorry to bring back old thread but thanks for a very good news.

Do you have a link for more information?
Does this means just CHAdeMo connector assembly is UL approved?
Is there any news for When CHAdeMO DC fast charger will be UL listed?
Link? Sorry, no. I've reported all I know in the preceding posts. The info on the UL approval came from one of the SAE meetings.

Though my observation might be incorrect, I got the strong impression that there is no need to have UL approval for the L3 chargers as they are 'commercial/industrial' devices and not designed for home installation. The devices on the market today appear to have a number of approvals that allow them to be installed, connected to the grid, and used to recharge vehicles.

More info here on devices and manufacturers:http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2501

Thanks,
Now I am thinking that PG&E is just using UL as excuse to shut down Vacaville Quick charger.
It is not home installation so UL is most likely not needed.

Edit> Fixed wrong name. Thanks rawhog. :oops:
 
Founded in 1949, Argonne National Laboratory on the southern outskirts of Chicago, is the first of America's chain of national labs.

Mike Duoba

A frequent presenter at hybrid and EV technical meetings, Mike works at Argonne's Center for Transportation Research and has become known as the J1772 plug guy, having chaired the SAE Committee that established the specifications for the now-ubiquitous EV charging receptacle. He showed me a prototype for the next one, which will incorporate connections for optional 440-volt direct current charging. "We're still struggling to get the hand-grip force low enough for elderly people. You have to anticipate everything with these things."

Some of the chemistry within the Volt's battery was invented here, and the lab's next development -- licensed by GM and LG Chem -- should further lessen thermal risks and possibly double energy capacity (the Volt certainly needs a bigger back seat). Argonne has a wide array of battery research tools, including a machine that can simultaneously test 96 coin-size cells, each one containing different experimental chemistries.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/features/travel/1110_volting_across_america/viewall.html#ixzz1UZJ9MO5f
 
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