Leaf Spy and Leaf Spy Pro

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Hi Turbo, thanks for all your hard development work on this great app! do you have an ETA for when you might release the pro version for the Amazon Kindle? I've been using the lite version on my Fire HD (7" gen) and it works great. Would love to buy the pro version.

BTW... I can confirm the Leaf Spy works fine on the Nvidia Shield (android base gaming device).
Just not the most convenient form factor to use while driving :)
 
Hi,

I recently started reading this thread looking for other people's experiences with this software. I'm especially interested in what functions can be modified with it.
A colleague in my company told about changing the frenqency of the windshield wipers by using the OBD plug in correspondence to an appiclable software package. Does the Leaf CANbus support this function? This would be a great improvement to the Leaf Spy App.

I'm sorry in advance if this question is already stated and possibly answered. But it takes a long time to go through 43 pages...
...and I'm just an impatient EVianer who tries to carry the future into present but sometimes mixes past & future up... :)
 
Turbo3 said:
Consumption (the wh counter) comes from the SOC and AHr values read from the Leaf. The remaining kwh comes from Gids. So it is not unusual for them not to match up.

Could you add a way to adjust the max GID's so that the GID % ties up closer with the batteries ability (is closer in relation to the cars reported %)?
 
The whole point of the GID is to have an energy-related value, not related to
the size or capacity of the battery. The %GID gives the amount of energy
compared to a typical new 2011 production LEAF.

Perhaps a 2015 LEAF SL Plus will have 203.6 %GIDs when new.
 
garygid said:
The whole point of the GID is to have an energy-related value, not related to
the size or capacity of the battery. The %GID gives the amount of energy
compared to a typical new 2011 production LEAF.

Perhaps a 2015 LEAF SL Plus will have 203.6 %GIDs when new.

Maybe an enhancement to consider is for the app to determine the year build and display % of new battery capacity for that model year. The model year should be derivable from the VIN number, then refer to a table of values that has been confirmed empirically.
 
JPWhite said:
garygid said:
The whole point of the GID is to have an energy-related value, not related to
the size or capacity of the battery. The %GID gives the amount of energy
compared to a typical new 2011 production LEAF.

Perhaps a 2015 LEAF SL Plus will have 203.6 %GIDs when new.

Maybe an enhancement to consider is for the app to determine the year build and display % of new battery capacity for that model year. The model year should be derivable from the VIN number, then refer to a table of values that has been confirmed empirically.
In the past I tried to use VIN to determine model year but it fails to always work. Some countries (England) use a different VIN format.

So unless someone can provide me with a world wide VIN decoder for model year it will not always work. Then I would also need an agreed to GID number for each model year.

Keeping it relative to the base 2011 year keeps it simple.
 
Turbo3 said:
JPWhite said:
garygid said:
The whole point of the GID is to have an energy-related value, not related to
the size or capacity of the battery. The %GID gives the amount of energy
compared to a typical new 2011 production LEAF.

Perhaps a 2015 LEAF SL Plus will have 203.6 %GIDs when new.

Maybe an enhancement to consider is for the app to determine the year build and display % of new battery capacity for that model year. The model year should be derivable from the VIN number, then refer to a table of values that has been confirmed empirically.
In the past I tried to use VIN to determine model year but it fails to always work. Some countries (England) use a different VIN format.

So unless someone can provide me with a world wide VIN decoder for model year it will not always work. Then I would also need an agreed to GID number for each model year.

Keeping it relative to the base 2011 year keeps it simple.

Good point about international VIN's. Maybe a parameter when first setting up the program. Chose Model Year from a drop down and your done. The GID's should be easy enough to muster from the community here. 281 is the agreed number for 2011/12 LEAF's right?
 
JPWhite said:
Turbo3 said:
garygid said:
The whole point of the GID is to have an energy-related value, not related to
the size or capacity of the battery. The %GID gives the amount of energy
compared to a typical new 2011 production LEAF.

Perhaps a 2015 LEAF SL Plus will have 203.6 %GIDs when new.

Maybe an enhancement to consider is for the app to determine the year build and display % of new battery capacity for that model year. The model year should be derivable from the VIN number, then refer to a table of values that has been confirmed empirically.
In the past I tried to use VIN to determine model year but it fails to always work. Some countries (England) use a different VIN format.

So unless someone can provide me with a world wide VIN decoder for model year it will not always work. Then I would also need an agreed to GID number for each model year.

Keeping it relative to the base 2011 year keeps it simple.

Good point about international VIN's. Maybe a parameter when first setting up the program. Chose Model Year from a drop down and your done. The GID's should be easy enough to muster from the community here. 281 is the agreed number for 2011/12 LEAF's right?[/quote]

There is a.problem with selecting by year: some 2013s are like the 2011/12 cars, new gids are about 280, but a larger number show low capacity numbers with gids about 264 and Ahr about 60. A more basic problem is that a Gid (as measured by current hardware and software) doesn't represent a fixed amount of energy, especially in 2013 Leafs when the battery is low.
 
Turbo3 said:
In the past I tried to use VIN to determine model year but it fails to always work. Some countries (England) use a different VIN format.

So unless someone can provide me with a world wide VIN decoder for model year it will not always work. Then I would also need an agreed to GID number for each model year.

Keeping it relative to the base 2011 year keeps it simple.

The below VIN is an actual VIN found on an unsold/new (less than 100 miles) at a dealer in the UK. Unsure how long it's been sitting there; currently about 58% charged.

http://www.vindecoder.net/?vin=SJNFAAZE0U6001850&submit=Decode" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
does *NOT* work; it reports incorrect check digit and completely wrong model info

http://vindecoder.eu/check-vin/SJNFAAZE0U6001850" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; sort of works, but reports a ModelYear of 30 ;-)

http://uk.vin-info.com/order-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; seems to work but is a pay-for site.

lw6l.png



HTH.
 
The difficulty is that the amount if usable energy contained in the battery,
or even the battery capacity, are difficult to measure, or even estimate accurately.

It is not like adding and using gallons.
 
garygid said:
The difficulty is that the amount if usable energy contained in the battery,
or even the battery capacity, are difficult to measure, or even estimate accurately.

It is not like adding and using gallons.

Hence the need for this tool to do the heavy lifting.

As I always say at work when we face difficult challenges, if it was easy they wouldn't need us. :)
 
Here is a new feature that will be available in the next release to show amount of Regeneration (energy put back into the pack). It was requested a while back.

If you tap the Wh counter value you toggle between Wh consumed and Regen Wh.

Here are two screenshots. The first is the current Wh counter showing I used 808 Wh to drop off Netflex at the Post Office.

The second screen is after I tapped the 808 number and shows that during that trip I regenerated 289 Wh. The total amount of energy required to drive the motor would be the sum of the two or 1097 Wh but through regen I was able to recapture 289 Wh or 26% of the total energy used by the motor.

The "^" symbol was added to indicate "Regen" Wh.

s4hi.png
bge3.png
 
Hi all, I'm a Japanese graduate studying about EVs.

I want to know my Leaf's present battery capacity in kWh.
So please teach me which method is optimal.

1. Gids x 80[Wh/gid]
2. 22.5[kWh] x SOH[%] x SOC[%]

If you have any other good ideas, please let me know.
 
katsuo said:
Hi all, I'm a Japanese graduate studying about EVs.

I want to know my Leaf's present battery capacity in kWh.
So please teach me which method is optimal.

1. Gids x 80[Wh/gid]
2. 22.5[kWh] x SOH[%] x SOC[%]

If you have any other good ideas, please let me know.
gids is the best understood @ 80Wh/gid. Next would be SOH% (66Ah@100%)
 
Capacity is what the container is able to hold.

Less than that is the usable capacity, like not being able to get
the last quart of gasoline out of a typical gas tank that has
a sediment and water sump at the bottom.

With a typical wooden water barrel, the water that goes in is not all available
for use later. Some leaks out, some splashes out when it is getting too
full, and some evaporates, depending upon the weather and temperature.

With any battery, more energy is put in than is available to use later.

Put in 5 kWh of Regen energy, but only perhaps 4.5 is usable, so
consider that the cost of storage.

How is the capacity of any unknown container determined,
or estimated? Even the imperical "fill it up and pour it out"
is not always a perfect, or even a good measure if capacity.

Consider how this can happen, and estimate
the capacity after each step:

1. Invert the container to get all the liquid out.
Exactly 6 gallons come out.
2. Pour in 10 gallons of water, which fills it to the brim.
3. Come back later, without using any of the liquid, and
find it necessary to add another gallon to fill it to the brim.
4. Then, pour out the liquid, measuring it, until no more liquid
comes out. You measured 9 gallons.
5. Refill with 9 gallons to the top.
6. Come back later and empty again, measuring 11 gallons.

Explain this, and what is the "best" estimate of the capacity
of the container?

The lesson... it is difficult to determine the capacity,
even if you are allowed to "measure" it directly.
 
katsuo said:
Hi all, I'm a Japanese graduate studying about EVs.

I want to know my Leaf's present battery capacity in kWh.
So please teach me which method is optimal.

1. Gids x 80[Wh/gid]
2. 22.5[kWh] x SOH[%] x SOC[%]

If you have any other good ideas, please let me know.

The basic problem is that the methods above rely on Nissan computer programming to determine these numbers, the programming isn't consistent and for both Gids and kwh had been definitely shown to be non-linear for Leafs.

A better way is to discharge the battery, then charge the battery to 100%, while measuring the kwh drawn from the source (typically a 240V EVSE), then multiplying by the efficiency of the charging process (typically about 85%). While it usually is not possible to accurately measure the efficiency of the charging process, the estimate is likely to be better than relying on Nissan's programming to give accurate results.

Most users REALLY want to know how far their car will go, and that is best determined by doing a range test, not calculating capacities based on inaccurate data.
 
stjohnh said:
Most users REALLY want to know how far their car will go, and that is best determined by doing a range test, not calculating capacities based on inaccurate data.

I've found the LEAF Spy program to be invaluable in letting me know how much range is left in the battery. Is it perfect? No, as you point out its only as good as the data it gets from the car. However as I'm driving down the road I am able to guess 2-3 miles out where I will be on my route when the LBW sounds. I'm typically within 400 yds of the actual location. That's good enough for me.

A range test, while accurate on the day it is done, is of increasingly less value as the batteries characteristics change.

I could do a range test today, rip out the LEAF Spy program, and turn right around and drive and find myself with little knowledge of my remaining range. A range test is good on paper but of lesser value behind the wheel.

In addition, knowing the 'real' amount of energy in the battery is of no consequence when the turtle shows up. It shows up on queue based on Nisssan's 'inaccurate programming'. As Jack Ricard likes to say "You live by the turtle and die by the turtle".

A program such as LEAF Spy Pro that uses Nissan's data is IMHO the best way to predict your remaining range. It's a natural extension of the cars instrumentation.
 
Berlino said:
The 2012 LEAF apparently offered 21.38 kWh of usable energy....

Well, yes, if you prefer to cherry-pick your data from a single slide at:

Advanced Technology Vehicle Lab Benchmarking – Level 1
2012 DOE Hydrogen Program and Vehicle Technologies Annual Merit Review May 15, 2012

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/vehiclesandfuels/pdfs/merit_review_2012/veh_sys_sim/vss030_lohsebusch_2012_o.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You might believe that.

You might come to somewhat different conclusions regarding available battery capacity by reading the much more comprehensive report on the LEAF from the same source here:

Advanced Powertrain Research Facility
AVTA Nissan Leaf testing and analysis


October 12th 2012

Note: This presentation summarizes
the major finding which have been
presented at several different
occasions in the past.

...Measurement point Average value

A) Wall Plug energy 21.722 AC kWh
C) DC energy to pack 18.529 DC kWh
E) DC Test energy * 17.957 DC kWh

Analysis Note:
Values are based on
13 level 2 battery
charge events from
completely depleted
to fully charged

(page 21)

http://www.transportation.anl.gov/D3/data/2012_nissan_leaf/AVTALeaftestinganalysis_Major%20summary101212.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
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