$15,900 not including sales (PV systems are exempt right now) of that $2650 was for labor (solar path analysis, PV consulting, and mainly contractor to actually install the 46 roof anchors, rails, and panels). Obviously not including all the time I spent reading, researching, designing, and installing it.Stoaty said:
Is your LEAF solar-powered, or will it be at some point?
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Leafittome
Well-known member
LEAFfan said:
Inverter costs depend upon brand/model/capacity. The Xantrex GT series ranges from 2.8Kw @$2375, 3.3Kw @$2875, 3.8Kw @$3130, 4.0Kw @$3130, to 5.0Kw @$3950 plus labor, but can be found on sale from $1653(2.8Kw) to $2749(5K) or so.
Same with Fronius, 2Kw @$1686 to 5Kw @$3933 at sale pricing. So, a Xantrex 5Kw central inverter, being changed at around 12 years would add about $22/mo. when amortized, including a few hundred for installation.
larrys3255
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I have solar panels on my roof that generate around 30 kwhrs/day. I cant add more panels due to the roof exposure.
Recently I had a separate TOU meter installed for the 240 V charger so that I can get the rebate for the charger installation from LADWP. I do the Leaf charging at night when the rates are cheaper.
Larry
Recently I had a separate TOU meter installed for the 240 V charger so that I can get the rebate for the charger installation from LADWP. I do the Leaf charging at night when the rates are cheaper.
Larry
HighDesertDriver
Well-known member
Rebate aside, is it safe to assume that you installed the TOU meter for charging because you have no NEM excess at true-up? Thanks!larrys3255 said:
I do have an 8.2kWDC/7.3 kWAC system in Livermore, CA. I got over 13,300 kwh of solar power in the first year of use. I plug my Leaf into a 110 wall socket in the garage, and use about 8 kwh on average everyday to charge it. The question of whether my Leaf is solar powered is hard to answer, as I use a lot of electricity for pool and irrigation pumps, a separate apartment, and lots of computers and network equipment. Since PGE has a heavily tiered system (but less so now than when I designed my system), I sized the system to knock off the upper tiers of usage. Over half of my electricity cost over 40 cents/kwh, when I installed the system! ) So, I am not entirely solar powered on average. I think it is fair to say that when I bought my leaf, all of the additional energy it uses comes from the grid, and so it works off whatever the grid fuel profile is. It was illuminating to see the posts in this thread that graph that profile, along with the heuristics that show that even if coal were 100% of the fuel profile, the efficiency of EVs would reduce emissions relative to ICE cars.
The most interesting info to me was the fact that PGE uses almost half non-CO2 producing energy, and very little coal. I travel in fairly enlightened circles, and the idea that EVs will, right now, use some fossil fuels is not an effective argument against EVs, so I never have to apologize by saying "but I've got Solar panels." My friends believe there is great value in being an early adopter of EVs. We are helping to demonstrate that the technology is viable and most people can use them, and enjoy them, without missing the abilities of ICE cars. Certainly in the near future, with lower TCO through lower battery costs, in almost every two car family, one car could be EV, and the other can be a plug-in hybrid for longer trips. Through early adoption, we are driving the cost of batteries lower, stimulating investment in the technology. The subsidies are working. A beneficially related trend is the fact that the grid fuel profile is becoming greener, and we, the early adopters of Solar help that a tiny bit.
I don't want people to have to feel that they need to get solar power in order to fully justify using an EV. I know the person starting this thread didn't mean that, but I do see that kind of argument a lot. I think we can simply say 1) Electric motors are more efficient at converting stored energy to kinetic energy than ICEs, 2) The grid where we get the energy is "greener" than one would think, at least in many places, and getting greener, and 3) early adoption (where there are bigger risks, and non-economic factors) is very important in the introduction of any new technology, especially one that is as potentially important and far-reaching EV technology. Some of us simply enjoy that.
The most interesting info to me was the fact that PGE uses almost half non-CO2 producing energy, and very little coal. I travel in fairly enlightened circles, and the idea that EVs will, right now, use some fossil fuels is not an effective argument against EVs, so I never have to apologize by saying "but I've got Solar panels." My friends believe there is great value in being an early adopter of EVs. We are helping to demonstrate that the technology is viable and most people can use them, and enjoy them, without missing the abilities of ICE cars. Certainly in the near future, with lower TCO through lower battery costs, in almost every two car family, one car could be EV, and the other can be a plug-in hybrid for longer trips. Through early adoption, we are driving the cost of batteries lower, stimulating investment in the technology. The subsidies are working. A beneficially related trend is the fact that the grid fuel profile is becoming greener, and we, the early adopters of Solar help that a tiny bit.
I don't want people to have to feel that they need to get solar power in order to fully justify using an EV. I know the person starting this thread didn't mean that, but I do see that kind of argument a lot. I think we can simply say 1) Electric motors are more efficient at converting stored energy to kinetic energy than ICEs, 2) The grid where we get the energy is "greener" than one would think, at least in many places, and getting greener, and 3) early adoption (where there are bigger risks, and non-economic factors) is very important in the introduction of any new technology, especially one that is as potentially important and far-reaching EV technology. Some of us simply enjoy that.
JPWhite
Well-known member
druidz6 said:
Good point but you miss another important point in that the electric required to merely refine a gallon of gas (about 6kWh) is enough to propel an EV the same distance as an average ICE vehicle. There is absolutely no extra electric required to power an EV, it's a wash. In fact once you add the energy expended in drilling, transporting and distributing crude and gas around the globe, the net amount of electric expended is less for the same miles driven for an EV vs ICE. In addition money no longer goes to unfriendly nations and jobs at home to generate electric are retained/created. Even if Solar is used to power the EV, US jobs are created to sell/install/maintain the solar systems and money is retained or goes to friendly nations.
EV's are a win-win no matter how you slice or dice it.
JPWhite said:
Thats a great point! Do you have a reference for that? I'd love to use it.
Has anyone seen an overall analysis of energy efficiency? One that includes The cost of producing electricity, the amortized cost of producing the batteries, etc. That will get more and more favorable over time for EVs if Solar, Wind, Ocean, and other energy sources come online.
One other thought on charging BEVs from your solar array: If you are grid connected, you are really using the fuel sources used by the Grid, even if you produce more than you consume. I do think thats the best way of looking at it, so we need to see where that is going.
JPWhite
Well-known member
druidz6 said:
http://gatewayev.org/how-much-electricity-is-used-refine-a-gallon-of-gasoline
The video is worth a watch also.
Desertstraw
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I am not sure whether my car is solar powered or not, since solar energy is fungible. Technically, it is not since we use a smart meter and charge the Leaf in the middle of the night at 6.5 cents per kwh. We have a large solar system which generated 22,000 kwh the first year. During the cooler months we generate more electrical energy than we use. However during the brutal summer in the Phoenix area, even our large system is not enough.
HighDesertDriver
Well-known member
This seems to have been an issue of great debate. You'll find lots of discussion -- and even a few links -- here.druidz6 said:
JPWhite
Well-known member
Desertstraw said:
If your solar production over the year is more than you consume I think you can rest easy.
Your excess energy makes someone else's power 'green' as they consume your surplus. Even during the hot months, some of the energy you get from the grid will be 'green energy' from someone else's surplus, its not 100% dirty energy.
If enough folks would implement solar then the vast majority of daytime energy consumed by most consumers will be solar. We only have the evening to worry about. Someone needs to invent lunar panels
TomT
Well-known member
It's murky when trying to figure this out because there are so many variables... For example, the Chevron plant here uses their own byproducts to fuel their own on-site powerplant to generate a significant amount of the electricity used by the refinery...
JPWhite said:
JPWhite
Well-known member
TomT said:
Hmmm. Good information. Maybe that's why Diesel is so expensive at the pump, the refineries are cannibalizing the potential supply to keep gas flowing?
All the stronger argument to augment EV's with solar power, so offset any shortfall in electric generating capability as the need to refine oil diminishes over time.
Desertstraw
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JPWhite said:Desertstraw said:
If your solar production over the year is more than you consume I think you can rest easy.
Your excess energy makes someone else's power 'green' as they consume your surplus. Even during the hot months, some of the energy you get from the grid will be 'green energy' from someone else's surplus, its not 100% dirty energy.
If enough folks would implement solar then the vast majority of daytime energy consumed by most consumers will be solar. We only have the evening to worry about. Someone needs to invent lunar panels
You miss the point. Our solar production has reduced our annual expenditure by something like 80%. We still must buy electrical energy in summer because of the beastly hot summers in the Phoenix area. Unless you produce all the electrical energy that you consume, you cannot say that your car is solar powered.
HighDesertDriver
Well-known member
The electrical and thermal energy produced in a refinery is consumed on the facility by the refining process, and is not exported to the grid. Could there be some small exceptions? Possibly, but they are in the business of of producing petroleum product, not kWh.JPWhite said:
Azrich
Well-known member
When we were planning to install our solar system about a year we originally designed a system with 24 SunPower 215 watt modules. Then when we ordered the LEAF we were able to add 3 more modules before the installation began. Our 5.8 kW system has produced enough electricity for our 1700 sq ft home and the LEAF for the past 6 months. Our bill has only been $8.59 a month, the fee to be connected to the grid and the meter. My partner has his office in our home and even during the hot Tucson summer with running the AC full time. During these months we did use up most of our credited kWh we had accumulated during the winter and spring months.
We are very pleased to say that our LEAF is "Charge with Solar Power" and had that phrase printed on the license plate frame.
We are very pleased to say that our LEAF is "Charge with Solar Power" and had that phrase printed on the license plate frame.
Desertstraw
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Azrich said:
We can't match you up here in Phoenix. With 54 panels we still must buy energy for our 4000 sq. ft. house in summer.
Today on the TV show Opening Bell, Jim Crammer said
It was in the context of how we need to use more Natural Gas in transportation. I am fine with that, but I wrote him an email to let him know that I can and do run my Leaf on solar power.
I would urge everyone on this forum that uses solar power to run their Leaf to send Jim a note to that effect.
Call Cramer: 1-800-743-CNBC
Questions for Cramer? [email protected]
Questions, comments, suggestions for the Mad Money website? [email protected]
It was in the context of how we need to use more Natural Gas in transportation. I am fine with that, but I wrote him an email to let him know that I can and do run my Leaf on solar power.
I would urge everyone on this forum that uses solar power to run their Leaf to send Jim a note to that effect.
Call Cramer: 1-800-743-CNBC
Questions for Cramer? [email protected]
Questions, comments, suggestions for the Mad Money website? [email protected]
EdmondLeaf
Well-known member
would like to install PV system this year but do not know to whom I should talk?
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