I beginnig to think that Nissan is using the Leaf as a

[mark1313]

costly experiment for the future ... They are still going full throttle will sales and leases, even tho the cars batteries are showing a weakness for durability in the heat ...
Unless I miss a upgrade in the cooling system for the batteries for 2013, im scratching my head in what this is going to cost Nissan in the long run to get everyone's batteries fixed in a few years..

As predicted doing the winter, the battery bar losses were going to break a record this summer ...I hit -3 bars in May and expect -4 any day now by looking @ my miles per charge ..

If it was not for the battery degradation, I would give the Leaf a score of a perfect 10 ...

 

[cwerdna]

I'd imagine that Nissan's made some estimates. As for "everyone", well, sure those in Phoenix and other hot climates will probably be taking advantage of the 5 year/60K mile capacity warranty or ditching their cars before that (selling or car is leased). After that warranty's up, owners are on their own. And, they never gave us a price for a battery replacement, so some will opt for the $100/month battery lease program. Nissan could eventually make the Leaf lease only in Phoenix and other hot climates, which they should have done long ago.

I don't like the situation you guys are in, but hot climate Leaf owners I'm sure are very likely a small % of overall Leaf lessee/owners.

 

[SteveInSeattle]

It seems that a very small percentage of Leafs will need battery replacement at Nissan's expense. As far as owners expense for replacement, after the first 60,000 miles are up, owners can get a new battery and another guaranteed 60,000 miles for $100 a month ($6,000 for 60 months). I think anyone who purchased a Leaf should have been aware that Lithium battery technology was not 100% proven, for that reason, a lot of people leased. Still, many in temperate climates will get far more miles and may not need a battery replacement.

 

[evnow]

I think it is still an interesting question.

Since Nissan knows Leaf's battery won't last 5 years in the hot southwest, why are they still selling it there ? Looks like rest of the country is subsidizing "desert" dwellers

 

[adric22]

Maybe Nissan is going to use the data gathered from hot climate leafs to improve generation 2.

 

[TimLee]

Let the accelerated aging battery autopsies begin!!

 

[ydnas7]

I think it is still an interesting question.

Since Nissan knows Leaf's battery won't last 5 years in the hot southwest, why are they still selling it there ? Looks like rest of the country is subsidizing "desert" dwellers

OR

perhaps the combination of 2013 US spec electrolyte and improved software result in most new LEAFs battery lasting 5 years in the southwest anyway.

 

[smkettner]

It seems that a very small percentage of Leafs will need battery replacement at Nissan's expense.

In Seattle and coastal WA maybe.

At this point I fully expect to get a warranty adjustment and I don't live in the hot box.

 

[TomT]

Well, unless you are satisfied with 9 bars of capacity, that is not quite true...

As far as owners expense for replacement, after the first 60,000 miles are up, owners can get a new battery and another guaranteed 60,000 miles for $100 a month ($6,000 for 60 months).

 

[derkraut]

costly experiment for the future ... They are still going full throttle will sales and leases, even tho the cars batteries are showing a weakness for durability in the heat ...
Unless I miss a upgrade in the cooling system for the batteries for 2013, im scratching my head in what this is going to cost Nissan in the long run to get everyone's batteries fixed in a few years..

As predicted doing the winter, the battery bar losses were going to break a record this summer ...I hit -3 bars in May and expect -4 any day now by looking @ my miles per charge ..

If it was not for the battery degradation, I would give the Leaf a score of a perfect 10 ...

Well....based upon my climate/charging procedures/driving habits, and my results after 2yrs, I expect to have 70+ % battery capacity after 10 years. So, don't just lump me in your "get everyone's batteries fixed" group. If I had to do it again, I would BUY my Leaf in a heartbeat. Not everyone's situation is like PHX,PSP, etc.

 

[AP1]

+1

 

[dvlax40]

after 18+ years in the desert i was lucky to get 2 years out of a normal lead acid battery.

I had no illusions that an electric car battery would fare better without thermal cooling.

still, nissan could have been WAY more proactive in educating desert owners before they bought. hell they should have subsidized the leases and say "hey, you are going to be a test group for us to use to develop our gen 2 cars, as such we will lease them to you for 100 dollars a month for 2 years"

 

[TickTock]

We know how to make heat tolerant batteries. We will figure out how to get high energy density at the same time soon enough. Nissan is investing in the future - the batteries will come and they will have a head start over everyone else. Yeah, it's a gamble, but a good one IMO.

 

[kovalb]

We know how to make heat tolerant batteries. We will figure out how to get high energy density at the same time soon enough. Nissan is investing in the future - the batteries will come and they will have a head start over everyone else. Yeah, it's a gamble, but a good one IMO.

+1

The Oak Ridge National Lab demonstrated a Li-S battery that has four times the energy density of traditional Li-ion. This is a solid state battery that should be highly resistant to temperature. It will take a little time to move from the lab to the factory, but it seems very likely. The DOE EV road map report pointed to solid state batteries as having the best chance for success in the near future.
http://txchnologist.com/post/53445736501/battery-breakthrough-four-times-more-energy-storage

Thermal management systems are so primitive. :lol:

 

[evnow]

We know how to make heat tolerant batteries. We will figure out how to get high energy density at the same time soon enough. Nissan is investing in the future - the batteries will come and they will have a head start over everyone else. Yeah, it's a gamble, but a good one IMO.

This is a poor gamble - and lots of unneeded bad publicity. They can do all they testing they want - but not sell Leafs to hot areas (Arizona was a launch market ! What were they thinking ?!).

Ofcourse now that the sales have begun they don't have too many good choices. May be they should highly encourage AZ dealers to tell people not to buy (or for that matter steer people away from Leaf).

 

[dvlax40]

May be they should highly encourage AZ dealers to tell people not to buy (or for that matter steer people away from Leaf).

I can vouch that I was point blank advised against buying this car when i went to look at it at the dealership.

maybe they are starting to catch on....

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I'm not sure how much of a head start Nissan will really have. Everyone else seems to be leapfrogging them with their offerings.

Yes, I know somebody will come back at me and say "those are compliance cars only - no comparison", but they are put into customers' hands nonetheless. If Nissan had taken their time to really test these cars, they still wouldn't be selling EVs, at least nationwide. It really takes time to figure these things out. Nissan took the lead by selling EVs first whereas many other companies took their time to do the research and design. One positive spin of Nissan taking the lead is that the have forced others to actually produce cars instead of concept after concept. Unfortunately, they have been held back by their mistakes whereas the competition now has a chance to learn from Nissan's (costly) mistakes.

Nissan most certainly took a gamble by being first. Maybe it will be a disaster with all these warranty claims. Or maybe it will be a small enough percentage of cars to not dramatically hurt their bottom line. Ultimately, only Nissan knows the answer to that.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I'm not sure how much of a head start Nissan will really have. Everyone else seems to be leapfrogging them with their offerings.

Yes, I know somebody will come back at me and say "those are compliance cars only - no comparison", but they are put into customers' hands nonetheless. If Nissan had taken their time to really test these cars, they still wouldn't be selling EVs, at least nationwide. It really takes time to figure these things out. Nissan took the lead by selling EVs first whereas many other companies took their time to do the research and design. One positive spin of Nissan taking the lead is that the have forced others to actually produce cars instead of concept after concept. Unfortunately, they have been held back by their mistakes whereas the competition now has a chance to learn from Nissan's (costly) mistakes.

Nissan most certainly took a gamble by being first. Maybe it will be a disaster with all these warranty claims. Or maybe it will be a small enough percentage of cars to not dramatically hurt their bottom line. Ultimately, only Nissan knows the answer to that.

Who is leapfrogging? I don't see a single example yet. NIssan would not do what they are doing if it did not make sense for them financially.

 

[TickTock]

Who is leapfrogging?

Nissan is.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

I'm not sure how much of a head start Nissan will really have. Everyone else seems to be leapfrogging them with their offerings.

Yes, I know somebody will come back at me and say "those are compliance cars only - no comparison", but they are put into customers' hands nonetheless. If Nissan had taken their time to really test these cars, they still wouldn't be selling EVs, at least nationwide. It really takes time to figure these things out. Nissan took the lead by selling EVs first whereas many other companies took their time to do the research and design. One positive spin of Nissan taking the lead is that the have forced others to actually produce cars instead of concept after concept. Unfortunately, they have been held back by their mistakes whereas the competition now has a chance to learn from Nissan's (costly) mistakes.

Nissan most certainly took a gamble by being first. Maybe it will be a disaster with all these warranty claims. Or maybe it will be a small enough percentage of cars to not dramatically hurt their bottom line. Ultimately, only Nissan knows the answer to that.

LOL
Look at these other cars. There is still no competition for the Leaf. Look at the interior space provided in the Leaf compared to any other BEV other than Tesla. Everyone else took an existing car and threw a big battery in the trunk. No study. No innovation. Easy and mindless for them. They're losing money in each one. Sell as few as possible to meet requirements. Wait it out while Nissan does all the bleeding on the edge of technology. They're waiting for EVs to die or suddenly become easy with new battery tech.

Seems like there's only tesla, Nissan and maybe Chevy in the game. BMW may try but the i3 looks like a nonstarter to me.