End of Lease Decision Framework

[evnow]

My lease ends 2015 May.

It would be sad if leasing another Leaf is still the best option around. Tesla Gen 3 is probably still 4 years away - 2017. So is Infiniti LE and Gen 2 Leaf (may be 2016 ?).

A lot of leases coming out in 2014, I think, would be disappointed in the available choices too.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

My lease ends 2015 May.

It would be sad if leasing another Leaf is still the best option around. Tesla Gen 3 is probably still 4 years away - 2017. So is Infiniti LE and Gen 2 Leaf (may be 2016 ?).

A lot of leases coming out in 2014, I think, would be disappointed in the available choices too.

I think there will be many many great options for you by then. It may not be Nissan but I think by then, someone will step up. I am betting on Nissan though. bump the capacity up 6-10 Kwh and fix the degradation issues and I am there!

 

[Turnover]

I am totally with you. I love to do distance driving and some more KWH are just what I need along with a better heater and a quicker 240V charge.

 

[evnow]

I think there will be many many great options for you by then. It may not be Nissan but I think by then, someone will step up. I am betting on Nissan though. bump the capacity up 6-10 Kwh and fix the degradation issues and I am there!

You mean by 2015 ? I doubt it. It will still come down to expensive and too-large-for-us Tesla, "premium" BMW i3 with non-premium range and Leaf with "hot battery" that I don't need.

In 2011 when we all first got the Leaf, I'd have guessed a 40 kWh EV for $40k by 2015.

Prospects for 2017, though, look good.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I actually think the first major change for the LEAF will for the 2015 MY. That was the year the infiniti was supposed to come out and it was supposedly "99%" set so seems like a lot of wheels in motion for nada but not hard to believe those wheels could be turned to the LEAF instead?

I think there will be many many great options for you by then. It may not be Nissan but I think by then, someone will step up. I am betting on Nissan though. bump the capacity up 6-10 Kwh and fix the degradation issues and I am there!

You mean by 2015 ? I doubt it. It will still come down to expensive and too-large-for-us Tesla, "premium" BMW i3 with non-premium range and Leaf with "hot battery" that I don't need.

In 2011 when we all first got the Leaf, I'd have guessed a 40 kWh EV for $40k by 2015.

Prospects for 2017, though, look good.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I actually think the first major change for the LEAF will for the 2015 MY. That was the year the infiniti was supposed to come out and it was supposedly "99%" set so seems like a lot of wheels in motion for nada but not hard to believe those wheels could be turned to the LEAF instead?

I think there will be many many great options for you by then. It may not be Nissan but I think by then, someone will step up. I am betting on Nissan though. bump the capacity up 6-10 Kwh and fix the degradation issues and I am there!

You mean by 2015 ? I doubt it. It will still come down to expensive and too-large-for-us Tesla, "premium" BMW i3 with non-premium range and Leaf with "hot battery" that I don't need.

In 2011 when we all first got the Leaf, I'd have guessed a 40 kWh EV for $40k by 2015.

Prospects for 2017, though, look good.

 

[evnow]

I actually think the first major change for the LEAF will for the 2015 MY. That was the year the infiniti was supposed to come out and it was supposedly "99%" set so seems like a lot of wheels in motion for nada but not hard to believe those wheels could be turned to the LEAF instead?

But it seems likely they weren't planning a big increase in battery capacity for the Infiniti LE - though the biggest reason they postponed Infiniti LE was probably the availability of "hot battery" in the near future.

But when Infiniti LE does come out - it has to be competitive with 3rd gen Tesla. They will be priced similarly - so if they don't have the same range, they might as well not make them.

Tesla gen 3 will also affect Leaf quite a bit. They have to be atleast 150 miles at a considerable discount ($25k vs $35k ?) to be credible in the market. They should also be looking at being close to exhausting the tax credit by then ...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I actually think the first major change for the LEAF will for the 2015 MY. That was the year the infiniti was supposed to come out and it was supposedly "99%" set so seems like a lot of wheels in motion for nada but not hard to believe those wheels could be turned to the LEAF instead?

But it seems likely they weren't planning a big increase in battery capacity for the Infiniti LE - though the biggest reason they postponed Infiniti LE was probably the availability of "hot battery" in the near future.

But when Infiniti LE does come out - it has to be competitive with 3rd gen Tesla. They will be priced similarly - so if they don't have the same range, they might as well not make them.

Tesla gen 3 will also affect Leaf quite a bit. They have to be atleast 150 miles at a considerable discount ($25k vs $35k ?) to be credible in the market. They should also be looking at being close to exhausting the tax credit by then ...

I think that the LEAF will come out sooner. The infiniti was scheduled for what? late Spring, early Summer 2014. the Tesla is not due out for a year or more later.

as far as what range? was supposed to be bigger pack than current LEAF. now can that bigger pack be easily fitted onto the LEAF chassis remains to be seen. imm, the only significant capacity increase can happen with battery improvements as any sacrifice to current storage or passenger space is not an option. but a capacity change is not as simple as just throwing in a few more modules. the entire BMS has to be changed and cant help but think that Nissan (well infiniti actually but is there really a difference?) has all this time into a bigger pack a few months from start of production and its shelved. but then again; we dont why it was shelved. could be simply an option that was no longer considered viable due to the battery chemistry or BMS makeup

 

[evnow]

...but then again; we dont why it was shelved. could be simply an option that was no longer considered viable due to the battery chemistry or BMS makeup

I do think the reason was the "hot battery".

So, when the battery troubles started for Leaf - they would have started rethinking the Infiniti LE. They had to be reckless to be using the same battery without thermal conditioning in another vehicle. And when they started testing the hot battery - it obviously made sense to postpone the release until it was available.

I think both Leaf & Infiniti LE will get the same batteries. If Infiniti gets a bigger battery, that will be an option with Leaf as well. It makes sense to design it once and use it in multiple vehicles. So, I think the packs & BMS will be backward compatible in terms of size.

 

[QueenBee]

tough decision but have to stick by my statement that the LEAF is currently not a car worth buying so I would re lease a new 2014.

Have to agree to disagree. The LEAF is certainly not worth buying brand new. But if I extend my lease 3/6 months and thus am deciding right about the same time the 2015 LEAF comes out and lots of 2011 and 2012 2 year leases have already been turned in what is the asking price of a 2011 LEAF going to be? If they are say $12k I can either buy a 2011 LEAF and own it or lease a new LEAF and not own it after 3 years for around the same price. A PNW LEAF that is 6/7 years old will still have enough capacity for the average commuter. Obviously not yours, hopefully your LEAF's capacity will hang on long enough for you to return it.

 

[Spies]

So the 3 year lease on our loaded 2011 Leaf ends this January. We have no intention of buying it so I called NMAC and asked what other options we had besides turning it in. We were offered to extend the lease up to an additional year on a month to month basis with the same lease terms we have now. This may actually be an attractive option for us when normally we would never consider such a thing. Our Leaf is still serving us well and we will not go over our milage limit. In fact extending the lease should allow us to optimize the milage we have in the bank so to speak as our commute has recently increased. The month to month lease includes additional miles at the original lease rate of 12,000 per year.

Pros to extending the lease:
Possibly less expensive than a new lease. We would pay monthly $167.87 + $15.11 tax = $182.98
Allows postponing what to get next for up to a year hopefully resulting in better vehicle options and or bargains.

Cons to extending the lease:
Possibly more expensive than a new lease.
On the hook for possible repairs no longer covered under warranty or pay for an extended warranty at around $500 or $450 with $100 deductible.
Pay for another year of maintenance possibly including new tires.

I am not typically a risk taker but if we do decide to extend the lease I may forgo the extended warranty. Decisions, decisions.

 

[braineo]

On the hook for possible repairs no longer covered under warranty or pay for an extended warranty at around $500 or $450 with $100 deductible.
Pay for another year of maintenance possibly including new tires.

Can you share with us how much you have paid for maintenance in the almost 3 years you have used the car?

Any oil changes? :lol:

 

[Spies]

Can you share with us how much you have paid for maintenance in the almost 3 years you have used the car?

All told about $100 as the first two annual battery inspections were free and I rotated the tires and replaced the cabin air filter myself.

Going forward after 3 years however the battery inspection and carwings is no longer free and I may need to replace the brake fluid as well as the cabin air filter again and possibly the tires.

I have not called around to find out how much the battery inspection costs but I figure about $100 and I have no idea about carwings at this time. Along with the other things it could add up to a couple $100 or more if I do end up needing to replace the tires. Things I would not need to concern myself with a new lease of course.

 

[cgaydos]

So the 3 year lease on our loaded 2011 Leaf ends this January. We have no intention of buying it so I called NMAC and asked what other options we had besides turning it in. We were offered to extend the lease up to an additional year on a month to month basis with the same lease terms we have now.

That's very interesting. Did they give you any indication whether this is a standard offer? Also, if you extend the lease did they say if they'd adjust the buy-out price?

Our 2 year lease on a 2012 is up in 13 months and with a $21.5k residual there is no way I will execute the standard "buy" option. However, battery loss has been minimal and with a payment of $200/month for 15k miles/year I'd be happy to extend it for a year. Back when we signed the lease I'd have taken a 3 year deal only it would have been for a higher lease payment.

 

[mwalsh]

Going forward after 3 years however the battery inspection and carwings is no longer free and I may need to replace the brake fluid as well as the cabin air filter again and possibly the tires.

I have not called around to find out how much the battery inspection costs but I figure about $100 and I have no idea about carwings at this time.

I was quoted $57 for the year 3 battery check.

Also need to know what CarWings costs. I'm at 3 years in 9 weeks.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

There's no way I'd want to extend my lease at the original monthly payment; I'm counting the days till that raw deal is over.

 

[RonDawg]

Pros to extending the lease:
Possibly less expensive than a new lease. We would pay monthly $167.87 + $15.11 tax = $182.98
Allows postponing what to get next for up to a year hopefully resulting in better vehicle options and or bargains.

Assuming they will extend the lease with these payments and no additional cash up front, I say go for it. You will likely not be able to get a 2014 or even a leftover 2013 SL for that low a payment without a huge down payment.

 

[Spies]

That's very interesting. Did they give you any indication whether this is a standard offer? Also, if you extend the lease did they say if they'd adjust the buy-out price?

The service rep at NMAC seemed to indicate it is only offered on a case by case basis within 3 months of the original lease end by calling and asking about it. Seems reasonable to me as I was not able to find any information about it on my own.

The lease extension is computed using the same figures as your original lease other than it becomes month to month. For example our Leafs residual value at the end of the 3 year lease is $16,350.75. If we continue paying our monthly total of $182.98 for another year using the same terms of our original lease the new residual will be $15,219.87 at the end of the fourth year. NMAC sent us new paperwork to sign that has all the figures. I can make the agreement available for those that are interested.

There's no way I'd want to extend my lease at the original monthly payment; I'm counting the days till that raw deal is over.

We would have normally been in the same situation but our circumstances at the time required a larger than normal up front payment hence our somewhat low monthly payment making this offer look like a good choice for us or at least one we should seriously consider.

 

[cgaydos]

That's very interesting. Did they give you any indication whether this is a standard offer? Also, if you extend the lease did they say if they'd adjust the buy-out price?

The service rep at NMAC seemed to indicate it is only offered on a case by case basis within 3 months of the original lease end by calling and asking about it. Seems reasonable to me as I was not able to find any information about it on my own.

The lease extension is computed using the same figures as your original lease other than it becomes month to month. For example our Leafs residual value at the end of the 3 year lease is $16,350.75. If we continue paying our monthly total of $182.98 for another year using the same terms of our original lease the new residual will be $15,219.87 at the end of the fourth year. NMAC sent us new paperwork to sign that has all the figures. I can make the agreement available for those that are interested.

Thanks - good to know. I will plan on calling them 3 months before the end of our lease and see what they will offer.