EdmondLeaf
Well-known member
This is what was used form 8 to 83% last night. Subtract .15kWh for other uses for each hour, rest is Leaf. Temp while charging 45F.
Does your charging time make sense?
- Thread starter gbarry42
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This is what was used form 8 to 83% last night. Subtract .15kWh for other uses for each hour, rest is Leaf. Temp while charging 45F.
My wife and I just took delivery of a leased Leaf S the other day, and while we like the car a great deal, we've noticed one odd thing that I have to believe is a software bug (said by someone -- me -- who's had a long career as a programmer and created way more bugs he cares to think about).
The time to recharge to 80% seems way off between the 120v and 240v estimates, with the 120v value changing a lot, and for no apparent reason. For example, we just came home from running an errand, and when we got in the car in the parking lot the time to recharge read 120v: 8:30, 240v: 2:00. As soon as I started driving, the 120v time dropped to 4:30. A few miles later it was up to 6:00, and a couple of miles later it was 6:30, all while the 240v estimate didn't change. (Total drive home during all these number changes was about 10 miles, done in eco mode.)
We've noticed that the ratio of 120v to 240v recharge times (always to 80%) swings wildly from just over 2:1 to as high as 12:1(!).
I guess the answer is to just keep an eye on the battery level and remember that going from X% to 80% takes about Y hours, but that seems rather silly to us.
Right now, I'm using the L1 EVSE until we figure out an economical way to do in-house 240v recharging, as there are no public charge points that are convenient. The cost of getting an electrician to put in a 240v receptacle plus buying the other hardware (from evseupgrade or wherever) is way more than we'll spend on electricity to fuel the car for three years.
(Nissan should seriously consider shipping a dual-voltage evse with the Leaf, or making it an option. For people like me who are leasing, there is no good path to an L2 evse. If I upgraded the one that came with the car, I doubt Nissan would be pleased when I handed it in...)
The time to recharge to 80% seems way off between the 120v and 240v estimates, with the 120v value changing a lot, and for no apparent reason. For example, we just came home from running an errand, and when we got in the car in the parking lot the time to recharge read 120v: 8:30, 240v: 2:00. As soon as I started driving, the 120v time dropped to 4:30. A few miles later it was up to 6:00, and a couple of miles later it was 6:30, all while the 240v estimate didn't change. (Total drive home during all these number changes was about 10 miles, done in eco mode.)
We've noticed that the ratio of 120v to 240v recharge times (always to 80%) swings wildly from just over 2:1 to as high as 12:1(!).
I guess the answer is to just keep an eye on the battery level and remember that going from X% to 80% takes about Y hours, but that seems rather silly to us.
Right now, I'm using the L1 EVSE until we figure out an economical way to do in-house 240v recharging, as there are no public charge points that are convenient. The cost of getting an electrician to put in a 240v receptacle plus buying the other hardware (from evseupgrade or wherever) is way more than we'll spend on electricity to fuel the car for three years.
(Nissan should seriously consider shipping a dual-voltage evse with the Leaf, or making it an option. For people like me who are leasing, there is no good path to an L2 evse. If I upgraded the one that came with the car, I doubt Nissan would be pleased when I handed it in...)
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
If you were charging at L2 it would be quick enough that it is likely that the time it takes would be pretty much irrelevant. I will assume that your S has the standard 3.3 kW charger. Level 2 charging would add about one fuel bar per 25 minutes. Level 1 charging would add about one fuel bar each hour and a half. If the S has an end-time-only timer you can just set it to about when you plan to leave the next day and ignore how or when the car charges. (However, if you have "time of use" electrical rates that might not be optimum.)Bazooka said:
I don't doubt that the extra electricity savings wouldn't pay for a Level 2 EVSE installation over the term of a lease. But some of us like L2 for the convenience of being able to charge relatively quickly and expect to have future EVs that can use it. For those of us in the snowbelt L2 also allows much better preheating capability, which is a big deal.
I spent less than $100 to put in a meter and L6-20 outlet as a DIY project. If installing a 240 V outlet is difficult and expensive and you can get by with slow 120 Volt charging, it is a reasonable option to go with that and skip installing a Level 2 EVSE.
This has been said over and over and is in the EVSEupgrade.com FAQ:
Nissan doesn't ship a portable EVSE that will use 240 V because they assume that most owners will have a Level 2 EVSE installed in their garage and the "trickle charge" portable EVSE supplied with the car is for occasional opportunity charges, not everyday use.
As EVs become more common I would expect that garages with 240 Volt charge stations will also become more common. One county (Boulder, CO) already requires new construction houses to have EVSEs installed or to provide 240 Volt lines in the garage so that the house purchaser can easily install one. I expect that sort of thing to spread over time.
Bazooka said:
Nissan's agreement with AeroVironment to supply the officially-promoted home charging station might prelude that.
Nissan also officially recommends not to use the included EVSE as your primary charging solution, yet many here (including me) do so without any problems.
Thanks very much for the replies.
I'll consider the upgrade/downgrade option from evseupgrade. I didn't know it existed until now, and I somehow missed that when reading the evseupgrade site.
The business of AeroEnvironment having such an endorsement edge and Nissan discouraging trickle charging and pushing customers toward an unnecessary piece of wall mounted hardware is absurd, simply because it isn't needed, and it's exactly the kind of add-on cost and hassle that will deter new adopters. When I talk to people about EVs, which I do a lot via my web site and other writing and public speaking, I frequently hear "concerned questions" from newcomers, which fall into two categories: range (surprise!), and charging infrastructure, whether in-home or public. As soon as they hear people talking about putting in a 240v receptacle in their garage, many of them want nothing to do with an EV. Yes, this is extremely shortsighted, and I take great pains to tell them it's not that big a deal and they might not even need to do it. Heck, I'm not sure I'll need to go 240v, and I probably won't know for another couple of months.
So far, though, I'm loving my Leaf, and I stand by my prediction that the S trim level will be the knee in the curve for US Leaf sales. Plus, you know, the next spike in gasoline prices.
It really does need an option for configuring the power-up sound. The possibilities (and humor value) are almost endless... "WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME?"; [Star Trek warp speed sound effect]; [HAL voice]: "I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.", etc.
I'll consider the upgrade/downgrade option from evseupgrade. I didn't know it existed until now, and I somehow missed that when reading the evseupgrade site.
The business of AeroEnvironment having such an endorsement edge and Nissan discouraging trickle charging and pushing customers toward an unnecessary piece of wall mounted hardware is absurd, simply because it isn't needed, and it's exactly the kind of add-on cost and hassle that will deter new adopters. When I talk to people about EVs, which I do a lot via my web site and other writing and public speaking, I frequently hear "concerned questions" from newcomers, which fall into two categories: range (surprise!), and charging infrastructure, whether in-home or public. As soon as they hear people talking about putting in a 240v receptacle in their garage, many of them want nothing to do with an EV. Yes, this is extremely shortsighted, and I take great pains to tell them it's not that big a deal and they might not even need to do it. Heck, I'm not sure I'll need to go 240v, and I probably won't know for another couple of months.
So far, though, I'm loving my Leaf, and I stand by my prediction that the S trim level will be the knee in the curve for US Leaf sales. Plus, you know, the next spike in gasoline prices.
It really does need an option for configuring the power-up sound. The possibilities (and humor value) are almost endless... "WOULD YOU LIKE TO PLAY A GAME?"; [Star Trek warp speed sound effect]; [HAL voice]: "I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.", etc.
RegGuheert
Well-known member
I could't agree with you more!Bazooka said:
There was some talk by Nissan about the possibility of providing a universal portable charger with the LEAF, but obviously that didn't happen for the 2013s. Fortunately, the portable charger that comes with the LEAF has always been a top-quality Panasonic unit which can be upgraded for universal use. And thanks to Phil for providing that service!!
I personally feel that L1 charging is more dangerous than L2 given that there are so many poor-quality plugs out there with stabbed-in wiring and the plugs do not provide a locking mechanism like the twist-lock found on the connectors Phil provides on the upgraded units.
I like it! How about: "Open the pod bay doors, Hal.", or "Danger, Will Robinson, Danger!"Bazooka said:
cgaydos
Well-known member
Doesn't the provided EVSE have built in circuit testers to detect wiring problems? No argument, though, on the twist lock. Also, I personally think that the provided EVSE should have a standard mechanism to lock it in place - yes, I know the workarounds, but those are after all just workarounds.RegGuheert said:
I also like the idea of custom sounds on startup. Also shut down, etc.
dgpcolorado
Well-known member
With regard to Nissan discouraging trickle charging in favor of Level 2 charging I think the answer is simple:
Level 1 charging is so slow that it is a nuisance for those using their LEAF for more than short distances each day. They correctly surmised that owner satisfaction would be greater with the faster Level 2 charging. What they missed was that 3.3 kW was still too slow for L2 charging away from home, presumably because DCFC was supposed to handle that (right...). In Japan the DCFC infrastructure does handle much of the charging away from home.
That 3.3 (3.8) kW limit was likely intended to reduce the load on the neighborhood electrical system; a block of LEAFs charging at the same time might overload local transformers and cause pushback from power companies. Don't forget that they were breaking new ground with the first mass produced EV (I don't think the Mitsubishi "i" had enough market penetration by then to count).
Level 1 charging is so slow that it is a nuisance for those using their LEAF for more than short distances each day. They correctly surmised that owner satisfaction would be greater with the faster Level 2 charging. What they missed was that 3.3 kW was still too slow for L2 charging away from home, presumably because DCFC was supposed to handle that (right...). In Japan the DCFC infrastructure does handle much of the charging away from home.
That 3.3 (3.8) kW limit was likely intended to reduce the load on the neighborhood electrical system; a block of LEAFs charging at the same time might overload local transformers and cause pushback from power companies. Don't forget that they were breaking new ground with the first mass produced EV (I don't think the Mitsubishi "i" had enough market penetration by then to count).
RegGuheert said:
That could be another reason why Nissan does not recommend using L1 as a primary charging solution. Unlike with a dedicated 240 volt EVSE (assuming it was installed to code), you don't know the quality of the 120 volt outlet you are using, especially with an older home. It can be poorly wired, it could be shared with other high amperage devices, etc. A lot of people would say "Huh?" if you ask them if the outlet is a GFCI type or not. But if you plug in your Leaf and all of a sudden start blowing breakers, or worse start a fire, who's the average uninformed person going to blame, their house or Nissan?
I'm lucky in that I had an unused 120 volt 15 amp outlet in my garage to plug my Leaf into. It's for a whole-house vacuum system that doesn't work anymore (there's a break in a pipe somewhere) and it's just plain loud, which discourages me from fixing it anyway. It's not shared with anything else so it makes the perfect outlet to plug my Leaf into, even if not as conveniently placed as I would like. I am seriously considering having an electrician turn this into a 240 volt outlet and have my EVSE upgraded, but another more pressing home repair issue has just cropped up so it's on hold for now.
davewill
Well-known member
I just had reason to look this up, so I'll post it here as well. A dedicated 120v line can be converted to a 240v line fairly easily. Here are instructions that Phil posted a long time back: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=2707&p=73701&#p73701" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;RonDawg said:
Ingineer said:
gbarry42
Well-known member
There is a thread titled, "Better (reverse) SOC meter already in the car?" The premise is that the 120V recharge time as shown has several times as many steps as the 12-bar "fuel gauge". That's all I'll say here about that; it seemed fairly successful, and you can go read that thread if you like.Bazooka said:
The relevance here is that I started keeping records of what the 120V time was, compared to the number of bars left, to see how the two fit together. The two correlated fairly well...until I did a 120V charging session. Then everything shifted. I have a level 2 EVSE in my garage, and my 120V charging sessions are few and far between. This provided an opportunity to make the observations as I did--not touching 120V for quite awhile, and then using it once. The next time I charged with 120V, those times shifted again. I don't have any useful data from that but apparently the computer is doing some guessing based on what happened the last time that charger was used. I believe the folks working on the "better gauge" data saw this too, and figured out what affects it, but I don't recall the details.
gbarry42
Well-known member
The EVSE can test for things like leakage currents, but it can't tell if the outlet is getting hot. That's not so much a wiring problem as it is parts of the system wearing out. Those things mentioned are frowned upon specifically because they wear out so readily.cgaydos said:
