Climate Control Solution - Gain Control of your Heater!

[TonyWilliams]

Here you go what? What is that picture supposed to tell us?

Uh, thought it was self explanatory... The heater is pulling power when set at 60F, post update.

It's confirmation for all the posts previously suggesting otherwise.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I'm not sure why this is necessary? I do this myself everyday.

Heater without A/C: Turn A/C off (light on A/C button is off). Actually the A/C uses very little power anyway, about 200W when the compressor is running, but it cycles off very often when it is cold, so it is using even less. I never even notice the increase in power consumption when the A/C is running with the heat on. This in conjunction with recirc mode uses considerably less power than fresh with the A/C off, and keeps my windows from fogging.

A/C without heater: Turn the set temperature down to the minimum (60 degrees F). Unless the cabin temperature is below 60 degrees this will keep the heater from turning on. Once the cabin temperature stabilizes the power use is about 200W -- very efficient. I usually use fan speed one or two to maintain comfort.

Vent mode: To have air blowing without either A/C or heat I turn the set temperature down to the minimum (60 degrees F) and turn the A/C off (light on A/C button is off). I usually use fan speed one or two to maintain comfort, leaving it in AUTO would generally mean the fan is blowing on too high of a setting.

Happy and comfortable EV motoring to all

Really?

Ok, I admit I got a chuckle out of this. Without preheating, the interior of my car has never been above 60º since the day I got it, save for when I've parked it in the sun for an extended time. This afternoon, after driving 20 miles home in a snowstorm, the dash outside temp gauge read 16ºF.

I take it things are different in Phoenix?

 

[TonyWilliams]

A/C without heater: Turn the set temperature down to the minimum (60 degrees F). Unless the cabin temperature is below 60 degrees this will keep the heater from turning on. Once the cabin temperature stabilizes the power use is about 200W -- very efficient. I usually use fan speed one or two to maintain comfort.

Really?

Ok, I admit I got a chuckle out of this. Without preheating, the interior of my car has never been above 60º since the day I got it, save for when I've parked it in the sun for an extended time.

Yes, the heater still pulls power, above or below 60F / 15C.

 

[Deleted member 3147]

Here ya go...

Tony, this photo confuses me. It shows that you have the front defogger on but A/C off. AFAIK, and I'm not in my Leaf to check it, you cannot turn off the A/C in defogger mode. Am I wrong?

In any case, it would be better proof if you'd do it again, but in normal climate control, not defogger.

 

[Ingineer]

Here:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPpfZwWhn8w[/youtube]

This is my car, pre-firmware update. They haven't updated any code in the HVAC ECU in any event.

It's definitely warm enough in my car to not need heat. You are still going to pay with 2-4kW of energy until the heater coolant loop comes up to temperature, even when you don't need heat! It's sunny enough right now most days in the San Francisco bay area, that I would definitely not need/want heat. (even if it was free!)

-Phil

 

[kovalb]

I take it things are different in Phoenix?

Our winter climate is mild, similar to Los Angeles. However the winter mornings can be quite cold (around freezing) but my car sits overnight in our unheated garage where it usually stays above 50, and I pre-heat using the Carwings Android app. Setting the temp to 60 does indeed keep the PTC heater from turning on IF the car's cabin is above 60. This is common in our winter afternoons with the sun shining and heating the interior with the greenhouse effect.

My intent for providing this tip was for folks who wanted to use vent mode during cool but comfortable conditions. I never thought anyone would want to turn the heater off when the cabin was below 60. Personally I would not want to freeze my tootsies off, but to each their own.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I take it things are different in Phoenix?

Our winter climate is mild, similar to Los Angeles. However the winter mornings can be quite cold (around freezing) but my car sits overnight in our unheated garage where it usually stays above 50, and I pre-heat using the Carwings Android app. Setting the temp to 60 does indeed keep the PTC heater from turning on IF the car's cabin is above 60. This is common in our winter afternoons with the sun shining and heating the interior with the greenhouse effect.

My intent for providing this tip was for folks who wanted to use vent mode during cool but comfortable conditions. I never thought anyone would want to turn the heater off when the cabin was below 60. Personally I would not want to freeze my tootsies off, but to each their own.

I you preheat the heater will not cycle, even if it were on shortly so in that case it is incorrect to say the heater will not come on if it already was. If your car is not preheated and the ambient temp is below 60 or even above the heat can and will come on. if the temp is far above 60 it won't come on but that is exactly the point. The heater is cycling in many LEAF EVs daily without drivers knowing this. Playing with the temp control over and over is a hassle and still does not solve the issue in all cases.

 

[Ingineer]

Preheating heats the coolant in the heater loop which has significant mass. Once this is heated, even as long as an hour after unplugging, (not driving) the car will not need to re-heat the loop. This means you will not see any load. But try to run even the fan, and the heater will cool the loop, and the PTC will start consuming power.

The issue with the climate control does not affect people with short commutes, especially those that preheat. The problem lies when trying to squeeze maximum range out in cooler weather, and you have to choose between climate control totally off (foggy windows), and the PTC heater drastically impacting your range.

With the upgrade, you get control!

-Phil

 

[dgpcolorado]

I take it things are different in Phoenix?

Our winter climate is mild, similar to Los Angeles. However the winter mornings can be quite cold (around freezing) but my car sits overnight in our unheated garage where it usually stays above 50, and I pre-heat using the Carwings Android app. Setting the temp to 60 does indeed keep the PTC heater from turning on IF the car's cabin is above 60. This is common in our winter afternoons with the sun shining and heating the interior with the greenhouse effect.

My intent for providing this tip was for folks who wanted to use vent mode during cool but comfortable conditions. I never thought anyone would want to turn the heater off when the cabin was below 60. Personally I would not want to freeze my tootsies off, but to each their own.

And the purpose of the thread is to let the rest of us know that Phil's modification to the CC will, finally, let us turn off the heater and still use other functions (fan, etc.)

Given that I dress warmly in winter, and have the heated steering wheel and seats, I don't need the cabin heater most of the time (and if the sun is out, all the better). I just want to be able to be able to try defogging the windshield without having the heater come on; I am hoping that this will be possible with Phil's mod. Now when I try it the heater comes on full blast even in Eco.

After several decades of living with cold winters I find that I acclimate to the cold. I keep my house thermostat at 61º mornings and evenings and 52º at night. I had house guests from Santa Barbara last week and even with my thermostat knocked up 3-5 degrees day and night they were still a bit cold. Depends on what one is used to and how one is dressed. For me hot weather is the hardest to deal with: can't dress (undress?) for that. (I'm an old guy and I've never yet lived in a place that needed air conditioning; hope to keep it that way!)

 

[Ingineer]

And the purpose of the thread is to let the rest of us know that Phil's modification to the CC will, finally, let us turn off the heater and still use other functions (fan, etc.)

Given that I dress warmly in winter, and have the heated steering wheel and seats, I don't need the cabin heater most of the time (and if the sun is out, all the better). I just want to be able to be able to try defogging the windshield without having the heater come on; I am hoping that this will be possible with Phil's mod. Now when I try it the heater comes on full blast even in Eco.

After several decades of living with cold winters I find that I acclimate to the cold. I keep my house thermostat at 61º mornings and evenings and 52º at night. I had house guests from Santa Barbara last week and even with my thermostat knocked up 3-5 degrees day and night they were still a bit cold. Depends on what one is used to and how one is dressed. For me hot weather is the hardest to deal with: can't dress (undress?) for that. (I'm an old guy and I've never yet lived in a place that needed air conditioning; hope to keep it that way!)

I've updated the first post with a new video and ordering instructions. In the video, I included operating the defrost without any energy consumption. (well, save for the fan which doesn't show up on the CC energy display, and is low anyway.)

I totally agree with you on acclimatization. I was born in Michigan, and have lived all over, including in really hot areas. The really cold is unpleasant, but I don't consider 60 cold at all. I'm wearing short sleeves and it's reading 56 outside right now here in the San Francisco Bay Area. Putting on a jacket is about all that's ever needed here, and I definitely don't need the heat. If I am taking a shorter trip and I have range to spare, and I feel I need it, then why not? But if I want to hypermile, I want the decision to run heat or not! On a day like today it would definitely be running (as my video will show).

The A/C is much more efficient, it's typically going to be 1/3 the power or less than the heat would be with a comparable delta-T, and yet I can turn that off in a stock Leaf! The upgrade gives control back to you!

-Phil

 

[davewill]

... I just shot another Youtube video showing how the upgrade works and I included operating the defrost without any energy consumption. (well, save for the fan which doesn't show up on the CC energy display, and is low anyway.) It's uploading now, I'll put it in this thread as soon as it finishes. ...

Phil, what I'd really like to see is a video or photo page showing the process for replacing the module. I'd like to know what I'm getting myself into before deciding to order.

 

[palmermd]

I wish these posts were numbered so we can point to a post number....anyway here is the post... http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=177165#p177165" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[Ingineer]

Phil, what I'd really like to see is a video or photo page showing the process for replacing the module. I'd like to know what I'm getting myself into before deciding to order.

Already posted back on page 14.

-Phil

 

[davewill]

Phil, what I'd really like to see is a video or photo page showing the process for replacing the module. I'd like to know what I'm getting myself into before deciding to order.

Already posted back on page 14.

-Phil

Must have missed it.

 

[palmermd]

Phil, what I'd really like to see is a video or photo page showing the process for replacing the module. I'd like to know what I'm getting myself into before deciding to order.

Already posted back on page 14.

-Phil

Phil, I'm not sure if this will work well or not, but what about using the blog feature of this forum to put all the pertinent data into one place where nobody can put info between your posts. Perhaps a copy of all your good posts get put into the blog and a link to the blog in your signature. It would be far easier for people to read what you have to offer by increasing the signal to noise ratio that happens in all the "regular" threads. Just a thought.

 

[Ingineer]

Phil, I'm not sure if this will work well or not, but what about using the blog feature of this forum to put all the pertinent data into one place where nobody can put info between your posts. Perhaps a copy of all your good posts get put into the blog and a link to the blog in your signature. It would be far easier for people to read what you have to offer by increasing the signal to noise ratio that happens in all the "regular" threads. Just a thought.

I've never used the Blog feature at all, and didn't even know it existed! I'll take a look at it, but we'll soon have all the info on our web site, and that should solve the issue. Your suggestion has made me realize that we should have a blog function on the site as well!

I wish I could clone myself! There's never enough time!

-Phil

 

[lpickup]

Here you go what? What is that picture supposed to tell us?

Uh, thought it was self explanatory... The heater is pulling power when set at 60F, post update.

It's confirmation for all the posts previously suggesting otherwise.

Here's the post I was referring to Tony: 411 on volontary recall P1273 LEAF VCM LBC TCU NTB12-014

Things I noticed:
1. Yes there are now 2 distinct different dings going off when the door is open. Which one depends on the situation (car on or off).
2. My heater will stop drawing current at sub 60* temps if I hold the "lower temp" button at 60* for 2 or 3 seconds.
3. Had to turn on my charger timer (settings preserved).

I guess that sub-discussion came and went pretty quickly. You have to do more than just set it to 60. Apparently you have to hold in the "cooler" button for 2-3 seconds as well once you get to 60. Again, I haven't tried this myself. Your standalone picture does not indicate whether or not you actually repeated this specific procedure, and additionally I agree, perhaps the defrost vent setting additionally "contaminates" the experiment.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Here it is without the defrost. Note no power being consumed by climate control, however the thing just sucked up a huge amount of power to get the coolant up to temp. This is what people are confusing with "no power used"?

Yes, I held down the temp at 60F, and it still sucked down some serious kW's. I specifically did not turn on the heater timer that morning for the test.

 

[Ingineer]

Things I noticed:
1. Yes there are now 2 distinct different dings going off when the door is open. Which one depends on the situation (car on or off).
2. My heater will stop drawing current at sub 60* temps if I hold the "lower temp" button at 60* for 2 or 3 seconds.
3. Had to turn on my charger timer (settings preserved).

I guess that sub-discussion came and went pretty quickly. You have to do more than just set it to 60. Apparently you have to hold in the "cooler" button for 2-3 seconds as well once you get to 60. Again, I haven't tried this myself. Your standalone picture does not indicate whether or not you actually repeated this specific procedure, and additionally I agree, perhaps the defrost vent setting additionally "contaminates" the experiment.

This has been disproven, and in addition, there was no mention in the Nissan bulletin that the firmware included the HVAC system, so this has not changed before/after upgrade. If Bowthorn can hold his cold button and get the CC to stop heating, it seems he has the only car that can.

Here's the video I took showing power usage even after holding the cold button:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPpfZwWhn8w[/youtube]

-Phil

 

[Ingineer]

Here is the updated video:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykjgnrZTF2c[/youtube]

-Phil