Chevrolet Spark EV

[TonyWilliams]

Thanks for sharing test results Tony. I'm surprised with a trailer in tow you stopped with 4 miles displayed range remaining. Did you (or do you know of anybody who has) run it until it literally stopped to see what the response was? I'm thinking of my Leaf that shows "---" remaining range for quite a bit before it goes to turtle mode, then finally eventually stops. I'm curious how accurate GM's range indicator is with regards to "0" remaining miles.

Since the car went far longer than I had imagined, we were getting way off course (going north on 5 freeway) and I was pushed for time a bit. Knowing the car goes this far will help tailor any subsequent test. Since my real test was to see if it would beat the LEAF, it did that easily. I'm less concerned whether it has 3 or 5 more miles of range.

Based on all we know of GM's powertrain efficiency plots released, I'm not surprised it was extremely efficient at 60 mph. Here's the image I posted earlier in the thread:Note that the peak efficiency is right at 100 km/h.

They did their homework and it paid off. Nissan went backwards with the 2013 LEAF in this regard.

Ha...were the software guys being cute, or did somebody actually think this was a good idea?!? Weird. Do you think it will also turn off the map light? I'm guessing they're keeping track of all the powered circuits that are "optional" on the body controller and suggest turning them off. Since Tony already had the HVAC (and other power consumers...?) turned off, the only thing left was radio. It's still funny, as the energy used for the radio is about enough to back out of your parking spot.

Bryce

I didn't see any controls that went to "11", like Tesla does. The radio thing is silly enough, though.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I saw that the efficiency meter indicated 5.0 mi/kWh - that would indicate that the Spark EV has somewhere around 19 kWh usable. Nice efficiency on the freeway at 62 mph - also looked like the speedometer was accurate?

I don't know how accurate the economy gauge is, but the speedo was very close... Near perfect. None of the LEAFs did this.

The odometer was about 1% off.

 

[KeiJidosha]

Thanks Tony for a great test report.

Tony, that's a pretty big difference from the EPA estimated 82 miles (which is very close to the 2013 Leaf EPA estimate of 84 miles at 100% charge). Any thoughts on why it outperformed the EPA estimate?

Ya know, I have no idea. The car ran great. No issues, perfect weather, and it SMOKED the LEAF on the same course.

Best guess is that the motor is optimized for one speed, and we were at it. That would also explain the discrepancy over EPA.

The Rav4 EV only did 113 miles for the EPA, and yet at 100km/h it would go over 150 miles.

EPA is vanilla crap. has been and most likely will always be...

I would be interested to see Focus Electric, Fit EV, and Fiat 500e numbers for the same course. I’m not sure the FEV would beat the LEAF, let alone the Spark EV. EPA numbers tend to emphasize the regen efficiency of a car in stop and go driving, while Tony’s loop test really looks at the efficiency of the drive train and aerodynamics. For freeway speed commuters, Tony’s results will be more meaningful.

 

[GRA]

MNL: Tony, did you order the Spark Range Test?!
Tony: I did the job that—-
MNL: Tony, did you order the Spark Range Test?!

TONY: YOU'RE GODDAMN RIGHT I DID!!

MNL: Please the court, I suggest the jury be dismissed so that we can move to an immediate Article 39a Session. The witness has rights.

If Tony is channeling Jack Nicholson as Colonel Jessup I think we need an intervention NOW, lest we one day find him shaved completely bald and huddled in his darkened garage surrounded by skulls and mumbling

"I've seen horrors... horrors that you've seen. But you have no right to call me a murderer. You have a right to kill me. You have a right to do that... but you have no right to judge me. It's impossible for words to describe what is necessary to those who do not know what horror means. Horror... Horror has a face... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends. If they are not, then they are enemies to be feared. They are truly enemies." :shock:

Thanks for doing the test, Tony, and thanks to Ron Galbraith for providing his car. 100 miles at 60 mph appears possible. And boy, unless the BMW i3 can do _at least_ 100 miles @ 62 mph, it looks like an even more ridiculous use of $13.6k than it already did.

 

[SanDust]

Note that the peak efficiency is right at 100 km/h.

Peak efficiency seems to cover 55 MPH to almost 75 MPH. There also isn't much falloff going in either direction. I'd describe it as an island of 93% peak efficiency surrounded by an ocean of 90% efficiency.

The drive train is exceptional. It gives you a much faster car that can go further on a smaller battery.

 

[RegGuheert]

Thanks for the testing, Tony!

When I first saw the high-torque motor designed for the Spark EV, I thought it was an overly-expensive approach:

Still, those fifteen minutes of manual winding seem like an awful lot for a mass-produced product. I doubt the LEAF motor has that much manual labor involved, based on the YouTube videos I has seen, but perhaps there is a lot more that is not seen.

However, given the results Tony has reported, I can start to see the beauty of this approach. Of course, some of the improvement in efficiency over the LEAF at 60 MPH is simply due to the lower aerodynamic drag of the Spark EV due to the lower cross-sectional area. But optimizing drivetrain efficiency for highway speeds makes good sense since aerodynamic efficiency is the worst there. With Chevrolet's approach, both high torque and high efficiency can be maintained to higher speeds. Given that, you can trade off quite a lot of battery mass and cost to offset the small increase in motor mass and cost and still achieve better overall performance.

Kudos to GM!

 

[evnow]

Tony, IIRC, you had a '13 S and couldn't run with cruise control on. Did you redo the test with SV / SL ?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony, IIRC, you had a '13 S and couldn't run with cruise control on. Did you redo the test with SV / SL ?

We tested a 2013 LEAF-S and SL on the same track. Both got about 81 miles.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I would be interested to see Focus Electric, Fit EV, and Fiat 500e numbers for the same course. I’m not sure the FEV would beat the LEAF, let alone the Spark EV. EPA numbers tend to emphasize the regen efficiency of a car in stop and go driving, while Tony’s loop test really looks at the efficiency of the drive train and aerodynamics. For freeway speed commuters, Tony’s results will be more meaningful.

I'm not so interested in testing a Fit or an ActiveE. Both of those cars are blips on the EV landscape and all have a beer can crusher in their near future, to join the GM EV-1 in electric car heaven.

BMW i3, 500e, and Focus sound like candidates. I have no idea if eGolf and B-Class EV will be lease only crush mobiles.

 

[evnow]

I have no idea if eGolf and B-Class EV will be lease only crush mobiles.

B-Class is supposed to be "world wide" and available for sale/lease. Not sure about eGolf. BTW, bad name for an EV.

 

[SanDust]

Of course, some of the improvement in efficiency over the LEAF at 60 MPH is simply due to the lower aerodynamic drag of the Spark EV due to the lower cross-sectional area.

What makes this more impressive is that the Spark's CdA is HIGHER than the Leaf's. It spots the Leaf 400 counts on the Cd and, while it's narrower, it's also higher, making the A not so different. Some have suggested that Nissan's stated Cd for the Leaf isn't completely honest, but even if they cheated by 200 counts I believe the Spark's CdA would still be larger.

The Spark is also much faster.

 

[DaveEV]

What makes this more impressive is that the Spark's CdA is HIGHER than the Leaf's.

I very, very highly doubt it as I've countered before. Show your math.

The Spark EV is the same height as the LEAF (61") but significantly narrower (62.9" vs 69.7") and I highly suspect that the GM Cd is conservative while the Nissan Cd is not.

 

[SanDust]

I very, very highly doubt it as I've countered before. Show your math.

The Spark EV is the same height as the LEAF (61") but significantly narrower (62.9" vs 69.7") and I highly suspect that the GM Cd is conservative while the Nissan Cd is not.

The Spark EV has dimensions of 64" X 62.9". I've given you the exact cite to INSIDEEVS where you can find these numbers. You can also find them any number of other places as well. http://www.automobilemag.com/am/99/2013/chevrolet/spark/ls_hatchback/1006/specifications.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Because you don't like these numbers, you keep citing the dimensions of the ICE Spark and then wondering why Chevrolet thinks the two cars have different dimensions. Compare http://www.chevrolet.com/spark-city-car/specs/dimensions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; with http://www.chevrolet.com/spark-ev-electric-vehicle/specs/dimensions.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

You also won't accept that the Spark Cd is .326 and the Leaf's Cd is .28. While I've cited sources to support these numbers, you, without any authority, claim they're wrong because you SUSPECT (aka "want to believe") that Nissan is "not being conservative" (do you mean lying?). All I can say is that Nissan made a big deal about the Cd number and said this about it: New LEAF’s real-world driving range has been improved by the only visual change to the car: a subtly revised front grille helps reduce the aerodynamic drag coefficient Cd figure from an already impressive 0.29 to 0.28. As for the number GM released, I don't know any reason why they'd lie about it.

You wanted the math. Here it is. Using the right numbers, the Leaf has a CdA of 1190.48 and the Spark EV has a CdA of 1312.35. Even using your wrong numbers, the Spark EV CdA would still be 1272.70, meaning the Leaf would still have a smaller CdA. Anyway you want to slice it the Leaf starts with an aerodynamic advantage.
If you don't like the numbers, take your beef up with Chevy and Nissan. I'm just using the official numbers.

 

[DaveEV]

and then wondering why Chevrolet thinks the two cars have different dimensions

That's exactly what I'm wondering. The ICE/EV Spark have exactly the same body except for side-mirrors and grille.

Why would the EV be 1.9" taller and 1.1" wider than the ICE?

Every manufacturer measures Cd differently. In the past, GM has questioned how Toyota's measured Cd of the Prius, for example as when GM tested it using their test procedures they got a much higher number than Toyota's published 0.25, 0.30. That's a HUGE difference. It's simply not possible to compare Cd numbers between manufacturers. GM measures the Volt's Cd at 0.28. Do you really think the LEAF is as aerodynamic as the Volt or more aerodynamic than the Prius?

 

[TomMoloughney]

I was visited by some Daimler folks this week and got a chance to check out the B-Class. Not a bad package at all. They claim it's not just a low volume compliance car and will be available everywhere, we'll see:

 

[blackmamba]

I was visited by some Daimler folks this week and got a chance to check out the B-Class. Not a bad package at all. They claim it's not just a low volume compliance car and will be available everywhere, we'll see...

What's with the front grille? Horseless carriages didn't need or have pockets for holding whips, so why have a deeply contoured front grille on an EV? Same with BMW and the i3. Those twin whatevers are way louder than my eyes can take, besides being entirely unnecessary other than for identification for being a BMW.

Despite these late to the game offerings from the ICE world's most hallowed marques, the EV world is a different ballgame. I'll bet the i3 and B-Class will be nice and competent, but for cutting edge advances and engineering I'd put my money right now on GM who has been in the EV ballgame far longer, through ups and downs and ups again. The Spark EV, as a reviewer recently opined, does 95% of what the i3 does at half the post-tax credit cost. Not to mention it having perhaps a more cutting edge drivetrain which GM deserves much credit for developing.

 

[SanDust]

Why would the EV be 1.9" taller and 1.1" wider than the ICE?

I don't know. They may not have exactly the same exterior or the dimension of the EV Spark, coming later, may just be a mistake or more accurate (they may have tweaked the body but my guess is that they were more careful and more accurate with the measurements because the "A" was more important). I understand what you're saying about the Cd measurements, but you're taking what GM said about the Prius and applying it to the Leaf. Given the underbelly of the Leaf it's not crazy to accept the .28 claim in the absence of anything that suggests otherwise.

However, it doesn't matter. If you take the dimensions of the ICE Spark, which makes it's "A" smaller, and THEN add 200 counts to the Cd of the Leaf, which is a massive adjustment that makes is much larger, the CdA of the two cars are still almost identical (1250 vs. 1275). At best what you can say is that the Spark has an insignificant CdA advantage over the Leaf. The most likely case is that the Leaf has a significant advantage over the Spark EV.

 

[ELROY]

Of course, some of the improvement in efficiency over the LEAF at 60 MPH is simply due to the lower aerodynamic drag of the Spark EV due to the lower cross-sectional area.

What makes this more impressive is that the Spark's CdA is HIGHER than the Leaf's. It spots the Leaf 400 counts on the Cd and, while it's narrower, it's also higher, making the A not so different. Some have suggested that Nissan's stated Cd for the Leaf isn't completely honest, but even if they cheated by 200 counts I believe the Spark's CdA would still be larger.

The Spark is also much faster.

I'm wondering why the Spark I drove felt so slow??

Yesterday my co-worker challenged me to a little drag race in his Ford Focus....it wasn't even close.
He couldn't believe the results, so we raced about 5 times. Same results. You can see at about 40mph how far ahead I was in the 2nd picture. Unfortunately I thought I was taking videos, but the camera was in picture mode. I will get a video soon.
Also wondering if the fact that he was at 30% SOC compared to my 70%, would that make a huge difference? I know he has over a 100kw motor.

Based on how weak the Spark felt on my extensive test drive in town, on the fwy (w/sport switched on), I decided not to get it. Also, its so much smaller and less refined. Do you happen to be in Ventura County? I would love to do a friendly 0-40mph race to see how much faster your car is.

 

[fengshui]

Based on how weak the Spark felt on my extensive test drive in town, on the fwy (w/sport switched on), I decided not to get it. Also, its so much smaller and less refined. Do you happen to be in Ventura County? I would love to do a friendly 0-40mph race to see how much faster your car is.

I'm up in Santa Barbara with a Spark EV, if you want to try some weekend.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Also wondering if the fact that he was at 30% SOC compared to my 70%, would that make a huge difference? I know he has over a 100kw motor.

sure hope not. your statement implies Turtle mode at 30% SOC?? i am thinking not