Charging Rudeness?

[sdbonez]

dumb idea. Nissan seems to want to knock around the dealers and tell them to behave--chargers are for all Leafs. Why would we ask for less by negotiating with ourselves?

I guess the bigger question is whether Nissan is truly interested in 'knocking around dealers' to make them provide chargers for free. This instance is the lone exception I'm aware of where Nissan actually got involved. (and possibly, due to the customer service incident in itself). The normal response from CS is 'dealers are free to set their own policies.'

At the end of the day, dealers run a business fairly independent from Nissan. True, it'd be better for Nissan to find some way to incentivize dealers to provide free charging but given where they're at right now policy-wise, I can't believe that's going to be reality.

At the end of the day, I want to know where I'll be able to charge my car and to whom I should refer people to buy a Leaf. I already have my answers (Leon, Mossy Nissan Kearny Mesa) - just suggesting something for others since this topic seems doomed to repeat itself.

 

[walterbays]

I guess the bigger question is whether Nissan is truly interested in 'knocking around dealers' to make them provide chargers for free.

To me the biggest question is whether they provide chargers at all, not whether they're free. I'm not likely to want to spend a few hours at a car dealer. But if I get a "range surprise" then I'd probably rather pay a few dollars for a charge than wait for a free tow. Although at the average California commercial electric rate, L2 charging costs only $0.40/hr. I'd easily give that back into the waiting room vending machine. The real cost is the charging stations themselves which the dealers need to amortize over profits on more LEAF sales. The #2 question is hours of availability. The #3 question is price.

At the end of the day, dealers run a business fairly independent from Nissan. True, it'd be better for Nissan to find some way to incentivize dealers to provide free charging

I think Nissan needs to give them the right combination of incentives and knocks about the head. They should, together with the dealers, come up with a uniform charging policy so EV drivers will know what to expect, just as ICE drivers know what to expect from any gas station without calling ahead or checking a smartphone app.

E.g., own customers have priority and pay nothing. Second priority is other Nissan/Infiniti customers who pay $X/hr. Third priority is other EV customers who pay $Y/hr.

Nissan should take LEAF allocations (and possibly also 370Z allocations) away from dealers who don't follow the uniform policy, and give them to dealers who do. And of course no dealer who does not allow public charging should ever be listed in a directory of public charging stations - least of all in Nissan's Carwings directory.

this topic seems doomed to repeat itself.

I collected some reports of public charging availability and unavailability. Someone suggested I make it a separate thread. I'll add a few more recent entries and make some other suggested improvements and post. Suggestions for name of the thread which might make it easy to search for? "Dealer Charging Availability"?

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Has Nissan stated anywhere that free charging will be available (in perpetuity) for Leafs at all dealers? That doesn't sound like a sustainable policy. Dealership is a place of business to make money selling and servicing cars, not a place to habitually hang out. I would think they would want to limit charging at the dealerships to emergency/exception situations (like the one that started this thread) not part of Leaf owners daily routines.

 

[rawhog]

And on the subject of chargers at dealerships. What ever happened to the "promise" of quick chargers at 200 delaerships by 12-2010?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

we ALL need to write in, call, etc. to advise Nissan since this employee essentially created a TON of bad karma over 25 cents of electricity.

P.S.

response from my Boss when identical concerns were voiced; that plug has no one's name on it. you are free to plug in at any time!!

 

[davewill]

Has Nissan stated anywhere that free charging will be available (in perpetuity) for Leafs at all dealers? That doesn't sound like a sustainable policy. Dealership is a place of business to make money selling and servicing cars, not a place to habitually hang out. I would think they would want to limit charging at the dealerships to emergency/exception situations (like the one that started this thread) not part of Leaf owners daily routines.

Is that really an issue? Who the hell wants to hang out at a car dealership very often? As soon as there are other choices, those will be the natural choice for car owners. This is just an interim solution until real infrastructure shows up.

 

[DarkStar]

I did finally get through to Kahssay, and he admitted he was involved. He kept insisting that he did let her charge, but that their policy was appropriate that she didn't have a right to charge there. I certainly wasn't able to change his mind, let alone the dealership position.

Hmmm, well, maybe the talking to he received from the general manager there, Jack Ma, will be able to change his mind.

I received a return call this afternoon from Paul Smith, originating from the comment/complaint I registered yesterday on Nissan's 877-NOGASEV hotline. I am very impressed with Nissan's follow through on this (to be honest, when first placing the call, I fully expected it to be logged in some computer checkbox never to be looked at or acted upon). Paul at Nissan did in fact directly contact the general manager there to get Jack to explain Stevens Creek's policy and to impress upon him Nissan's desire that the dealership chargers be as available to all Leafs when possible. According to Paul, Jack said that the policy at Stevens Creek is that chargers WILL be available to ALL Leafs, within reason. (e.g. they wouldn't want a customer, Stevens Creek or otherwise, to simply camp out on one of their chargers hours all day every day, simply because they worked nearby. Also, in the event of a "queue", they would want to give priority to their own customers. All of which seems fair). Jack apologized if that policy was misrepresented or not known by Kahssay, and that he would make an announcement to all his staff to make certain that everyone at Stevens Creek is aware of and adheres to that policy.

Side note: It probably didn't help get things off on the right foot that our Leaf had the large "Boardwalk" dealer tags on the backplate... which is something that didn't even occur to me at all, but it did get mentioned by Jack as a possible reason that Kahssay took a bit of umbrage. Personally, I think it actually makes Stevens Creek look good, like a "team player", to have other customers see them helping out another dealer's car, but I can also see their side of it as being advertising for a "competitor" on their lot. (Had they asked, I wouldn't have been offended to cover it... or maybe even replace it with a Stevens Creek one had we been treated better). In any case, it'll all be a moot point once my "0 TPIPE" vanity plate arrives

p.s. a "shout out" to Paul, who handled my concern so smoothly and got back to me in under 24 hours to report the results (and who apparently also reads MNL!)

This is a huge deal and really helps to reinforce the positive Nissan corporate attitude toward getting issues resolved. I should note that the dealer frames were only on my LEAF until I got home to remove them. Note that if you remove the frames and don't have plates yet to be sure to take the clips out of the rear bumper, otherwise they may fall out without a screw in them...

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

I'm also hoping that either Infiniti or (preferably!) Lexus gets into the EV or Plug-in Hybrid market.

Those dealerships are all class acts, and know better than to make a woman cry over ten cents of power.
Nicer waiting rooms too.
With free coffee and WiFi, they could get more traffic than they might want.

 

[adric22]

I'm glad I saw this thread. We had situation similar a week ago. My wife decided to drive to a hospital to visit a co-worker after work and it really was going to stretch the range to the limit. Now she can't charge at work and we are well aware of that, but since the daily round-trip is only 40 miles for her it isn't an issue. But that day she was going to be driving around 85 miles. Before she left the hospital to come home, I discovered a Nissan dealer directly in route on the way home and suggested to her if she felt that she might not make it, to stop by there. I assumed she would be able to charge without question. Fortunately, she made it home without charging and hat 15 miles left on the car.

But in the future it is good to know for planning that charging may not be available just because it is a Nissan dealer. We also have the plug-share App, unfortunately there are very few level-2 chargers available here in Dallas/Ft.Worth area. The level-1 charger would be almost a waste of time in a situation where you were run dry because it would be easier just to call a tow truck than leave the car overnight at somebody's house.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I'm glad I saw this thread. We had situation similar a week ago. My wife decided to drive to a hospital to visit a co-worker after work and it really was going to stretch the range to the limit. Now she can't charge at work and we are well aware of that, but since the daily round-trip is only 40 miles for her it isn't an issue. But that day she was going to be driving around 85 miles. Before she left the hospital to come home, I discovered a Nissan dealer directly in route on the way home and suggested to her if she felt that she might not make it, to stop by there. I assumed she would be able to charge without question. Fortunately, she made it home without charging and hat 15 miles left on the car.

But in the future it is good to know for planning that charging may not be available just because it is a Nissan dealer. We also have the plug-share App, unfortunately there are very few level-2 chargers available here in Dallas/Ft.Worth area. The level-1 charger would be almost a waste of time in a situation where you were run dry because it would be easier just to call a tow truck than leave the car overnight at somebody's house.

The possibility of these little surprise route diversions is a great source (if not the only source) of range anxiety for me. If I know I'm going more than 50 miles I'll just take the other car. But if your kid needs to be bailed out two towns over and you're out with the Leaf, what to do?

 

[thew]

I would take the question mark of the title of this thread….it was definitely rude X2. Both her boss and the dealership were guilty. This was the same argument my boss gave for not letting me plug in except for an occasional “emergency”. Sure enough, the first day I did someone complained to facilities. We have free coffee at work….but not everyone likes coffee, does that mean we should get rid of it?

These Employers need to see the Light.. We want to encourage the use of a Zero Emission Car.. You should get a Spot at the Front door with the Charging outlet ( and the Free Coffee .. IF they want to put a Meter on the outlet so be it.. But really Employers need to encourage this. I would go to You tube and post your experience with both of these non EV Friendly folks .. I am Sure Nissan is not at all happy when they Hear this. Also Go to your City Council and Demand they install Charging Stations for all EV users.. .!

 

[greenleaf]

I received a return call this afternoon from Paul Smith, originating from the comment/complaint I registered yesterday on Nissan's 877-NOGASEV hotline. I am very impressed with Nissan's follow through on this (to be honest, when first placing the call, I fully expected it to be logged in some computer checkbox never to be looked at or acted upon).

Sounds like Nissan is interested in what goes on at the dealer level. Any idea who Paul Smith is? I assume he is a Nissan employee and not a contractor working for the Mauritiz organization handling CS. If he is following the MNL forum, he should have a good idea of the diverse opinions that are expressed regarding the different Nissan dealers.

This event should be a wake up call to the Nissan dealers to be more receptive to the LEAF community because we are helping them and Nissan spread the word on their EV technology.

Paul Smith is a great asset to Nissan. I spoke to him when I received my Leaf but my charger from the EV project was still not installed. He contacted Blink on my behalf and my charger was installed about a week later. I think the phone calls he made as a Nissan rep expedited the installation.

 

[BnBinSD]

Someone suggested I make it a separate thread. I'll add a few more recent entries and make some other suggested improvements and post. Suggestions for name of the thread which might make it easy to search for? "Dealer Charging Availability"?

Walter, maybe this,

Dealers Who Offer Public Charging (and those who don't!)

 

[PaulScott]

To the question of whether the employer should have bowed to the demand of the disgruntled employee, he was clearly wrong for the many reasons others have stated. One response for future use is that all the other employees are polluting your air, yet your car is not polluting theirs. Is that fair? No. They are putting our country at risk by using oil and you are not. Is that fair? No. They are sending lots of money out of our country, weakening our economy, yet you are not. Is that fair? No.

It's time EV drivers stood up for the right to use a tiny bit of energy now and then. Especially if you are willing to pay for it.

I'd be willing to bet that that business is wasting huge amount of electricity through too much AC, lights on in rooms that are empty and all manner of other means. The employee who complained probably wastes energy at work, too. Stand up to these ignorant bullies and let them know you are part of the solution and they are part of the problem.

 

[Ready2plugin]

To the question of whether the employer should have bowed to the demand of the disgruntled employee, he was clearly wrong for the many reasons others have stated. One response for future use is that all the other employees are polluting your air, yet your car is not polluting theirs. Is that fair? No. They are putting our country at risk by using oil and you are not. Is that fair? No. They are sending lots of money out of our country, weakening our economy, yet you are not. Is that fair? No.

It's time EV drivers stood up for the right to use a tiny bit of energy now and then. Especially if you are willing to pay for it.

I'd be willing to bet that that business is wasting huge amount of electricity through too much AC, lights on in rooms that are empty and all manner of other means. The employee who complained probably wastes energy at work, too. Stand up to these ignorant bullies and let them know you are part of the solution and they are part of the problem.

Paul, well said. Not to mention all the portable heaters I see under people's desks working against the AC units. :roll:

 

[PaulScott]

To the question of dealers allowing public charging, I see both sides of the issue. My dealership, Santa Monica Nissan, has been mentioned a couple times on this thread for being a problem, although we do allow public charging. I've had to speak out in favor of it here since management's inclination was to not allow other customers to charge. It's a stingy thing that I've seen elsewhere, but I convinced them that the public benefit and good karma is worth it.

That said, they do have a point when it comes to those who park at our chargers and leave without letting anyone know. We are getting lots of LEAFs in for delivery now and we have to fully charge each one for many hours. If someone parks in our very small lot, takes over the charger and disappears for hours without any notice, nor a phone number to call, and we need the charger for our own use so we can deliver the car to a long waiting customer, then we've got a problem.

Lastly, how would you react if you left your car charging at a dealer, didn't tell them you were there, your car got hit by another car while on our property and you come back to see your beautiful LEAF dented. Or, maybe you left the car overnight and a vandal came by and damaged it. Would you sue the dealer? You'd be in your rights to do so. Are the dealers to just accept that, or do they have some rights to deny this perk under certain circumstances?

Please know that I ask this as a long time EV advocate who is in favor of a ubiquitous and robust charging infrastructure that is free or low cost to the EV driver. The best solution to this problem is to quickly and extensively expand the number of charge stations so that we don't need to rely on car dealers for our public charging requirements. To tell the truth, the dealerships aren't usually the nicest places to hang out, nor are they generally close to places where good food or entertainment is to be found.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i have plugged into 4 different Nissan dealerships and have met ZERO resistance of any kind.

but then again, most were just happy to "see" a Leaf so that might have made a difference.

 

[DarkStar]

That said, they do have a point when it comes to those who park at our chargers and leave without letting anyone know. We are getting lots of LEAFs in for delivery now and we have to fully charge each one for many hours. If someone parks in our very small lot, takes over the charger and disappears for hours without any notice, nor a phone number to call, and we need the charger for our own use so we can deliver the car to a long waiting customer, then we've got a problem.

Another great reason to use the EV Charging Sharing Protocol! You can put your name and phone number on it to display on your dashboard while charging.

So far, I've called ahead whenever I wanted to charge at a dealership and I've gone inside to introduce myself. Usually I get stuck for a while answering all kinds of questions about the car though!

 

[walterbays]

To the question of dealers allowing public charging, I see both sides of the issue.

And that other side of the issue is going to keep getting bigger the longer that ECOtality postpones building any of the promised public charging infrastructure. The number of LEAFs keeps increasing (yay!) while the number of charging stations does not. Right now, except for the Nissan dealers, you cannot confidently drive a LEAF farther than 40 miles from home. Hmmm, 40 miles, that just happens to be the distance you can drive a Chevy Volt without using any gasoline.

That said, they do have a point when it comes to those who park at our chargers and leave without letting anyone know.

How about a policy like this?

Santa Monica customers just pull up and charge for free, and have top priority. We already know your car and your cell phone number. Go shopping if you like and we'll call you if we need you. Or leave your keys with the service manager like you do when you come for service.

Other Nissan LEAF customers are second priority. You sign in at the service counter, agreeing to a standard disclaimer of responsibility like in paid parking lots. You're welcome to wait in our waiting room, or to leave your keys and go shopping, or to leave your cell phone number and go - but not too far. (Maybe you pay something for charging. Maybe charging is free with purchase in the parts store or purchase of a service gift certificate.)

Other EV drivers are third priority. Same procedure as other LEAF customers. (Except maybe you have to watch LEAF commercials while you wait.

Better yet, could the Nissan dealers get together and agree on a uniform policy? If I drive my ICE car to any gas station in the country I know what to expect, without phoning ahead to ask if their pumps are available to the general public, and without consulting a smartphone app to read reviews warning if all their pumps are likely to be blocked by parked cars. With a uniform charging policy that all Nissan dealers were strongly encouraged to adopt, LEAF drivers could have something approaching that same degree of certainty.

To tell the truth, the dealerships aren't usually the nicest places to hang out, nor are they generally close to places where good food or entertainment is to be found.

I'd expect the great majority of people charging LEAFs at Nissan dealers to have bought their LEAF somewhere else. Chances are your dealer is reasonably close to your house. So if you need a charge and are close to your own dealer, you're probably also close to home where it would be much more comfortable to wait. If you're far from home you're probably close to a "foreign" Nissan dealer.

 

[adric22]

Paul, well said. Not to mention all the portable heaters I see under people's desks working against the AC units. :roll:

Well, I must confess to doing this myself. I realize it is dumb and wasteful but I have little choice. My office shares the same A/C system as 3 other offices. The thermostat is located in this guy's office who must be from Siberia or something. He likes his office at 65 degrees. I actually have closed off my vent as much as possible but for some reason the way the air flows my office will always be colder than his. So while he has his office at 65 degrees, mine will be at 55 or 60 degrees. Oh, and he runs the A/C year-round. Even in winter when it is 20 degrees outside. That is because the other offices around have their heaters on and the heat will radiate from those offices to bring his temperature up to 70 or 75 and he doesn't like that, so he fights all the other heaters in the building by running the A/C. So in those cases my office would be 30 degrees in the winter.

So my only recourse is to run a space-heater in my office. Yes, I know it is crazy. But I'm trying to keep the peace in the office and it seems the best and easiest way to do that.