Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[Lambtron]

I seems to me that by driving in "ECO" with the extra Regen Braking might heat the battery faster. Or is the difference negligible?

Even if it did, there's one problem: Regen pretty much goes away once you have a sufficiently degraded battery.
You pretty much need a hot environment (e.g. outside temps) to do the trick.

If this is the case, shouldn't I be seeing a decrease in regen braking? In an odd twist, I have been seeing a large increase in the sensitive brake issue, however my local Nissan dealer last Saturday stated the car had had it's update flash for that issue. He also stated the brake issue could be coming from un-named reason with the battery degrading. Is this a possibility or is he just blowing a bunch of sunshine my way on that issue?

 

[fooljoe]

Regen doesn't "go away" completely but it becomes limited when you're at a high SOC and probably due to other factors like temp and internal resistance. And just because you might be able to see all the bubbles available on the display doesn't mean you're achieving as much regen as a healthy battery. Toward the end of my old pack it was very rare to get regen up to the "full" 30 kW indicated by the LCD display, but with my new pack I can see regen up to about 45 kW at times with my CAN reader.

For the sticky brakes issue, wasn't there a fix where you basically just had to push down the brake pedal all the way to the floor and hold it for 30 seconds or so?

 

[Lambtron]

Regen doesn't "go away" completely but it becomes limited when you're at a high SOC and probably due to other factors like temp and internal resistance. And just because you might be able to see all the bubbles available on the display doesn't mean you're achieving as much regen as a healthy battery. Toward the end of my old pack it was very rare to get regen up to the "full" 30 kW indicated by the LCD display, but with my new pack I can see regen up to about 45 kW at times with my CAN reader.

For the sticky brakes issue, wasn't there a fix where you basically just had to push down the brake pedal all the way to the floor and hold it for 30 seconds or so?

First I've heard of it but I''ll try in about 15 min . Is there an exact procedure? I don't want to hijack this thread.

 

[fooljoe]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6086&start=290#p450762

 

[TimLee]

If you're trying to intentionally accelerate the wearout of your LEAF's traction battery, that purpose is served by simply having the battery sit at 100% charge, whether the charging cable is connected or not. So, turn off the timers, let the thing fully charge, unplug it, and then only reconnect it for an hour or so every couple weeks.

Maybe.
But possible that leaving the pack fully discharged at automated disconnect and in a 90F plus garage may be much more effective.

 

[Lambtron]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6086&start=290#p450762

Thank you for the tip and link Fooljoe. I applied it tonight but will have to wait until AM to see if it worked. It reacted the way that was described while doing it. As far as the battery I managed to get it up to 6 temp bars as it's about 80* here today. Thanks again.

 

[Stanton]

As far as the battery I managed to get it up to 6 temp bars as it's about 80* here today. Thanks again.

You need to hit 7 TB to really have a lasting effect; ideally you want the battery pack to never fall below the 90's, but that's difficult to do when the ambient temp is only ~80.

 

[Lambtron]

As far as the battery I managed to get it up to 6 temp bars as it's about 80* here today. Thanks again.

You need to hit 7 TB to really have a lasting effect; ideally you want the battery pack to never fall below the 90's, but that's difficult to do when the ambient temp is only ~80.

The hotter stuff should be hitting about late April-May 90*+, although the weather pattern seems to be changing earlier this year. I just hope I can win this race by August. Hopefully the fact that this car is my daily driver and gets no days off will be an advantage.

 

[DaveEV]

With recent cold in TN, my pre-3227 2011 that is missing three capacity bars now has SOH of 74% and is close to 49 AH capacity.
I feel your pain.
I hit five years on May 17.
Unlikely I win the infamous Nissan battery lottery.

I'm even further down than you at 46.5 Ah, < 200 GIDs @ 100% and 164 GIDs @ 80% and have until June 10th. It's highly unlikely for me to lose the 4th bar in time as well, even with the 80-85F temps this week (pack is nice and warm at 25C or so, much "better" for capacity loss than the 18C it was seeing a week ago). More likely it will happen after summer or about 4 months too late unless we have a scorcher of a spring.

Capacity loss is getting to the point where it's significantly limiting usability of the car and there aren't any or enough L2 stations near locations where I often on longer trips to minimize the risk of getting stuck with having to QC on the way home at high expense. My most common longer drive is around 50 miles - it used to be easy, but now that trip takes me under LBW with careful driving. Once that 4th bar drops it will be nearly impossible to make that trip without driving below the speed limit and significantly slower than the flow of traffic. I'll just drive the Prius.

 

[fooljoe]

You could still make it drees! Spend your weekends and any hot days driving up and down any mountains you can find over and over again. Get as many miles of hard driving on that thing as you can before June!

 

[Valdemar]

Capacity loss is getting to the point where it's significantly limiting usability of the car and there aren't any or enough L2 stations near locations where I often on longer trips to minimize the risk of getting stuck with having to QC on the way home at high expense. My most common longer drive is around 50 miles - it used to be easy, but now that trip takes me under LBW with careful driving. Once that 4th bar drops it will be nearly impossible to make that trip without driving below the speed limit and significantly slower than the flow of traffic. I'll just drive the Prius.

About $40 per month with NRG subscription will keep you going for quite a while if they have chargers on your commute. But it is a PITA to stop for QC every day, speaking from experience.

 

[DaveEV]

About $40 per month with NRG subscription will keep you going for quite a while if they have chargers on your commute. But it is a PITA to stop for QC every day, speaking from experience.

Yeah, this is the more reasonable thing to do rather than spend my weekends trying to burn up the pack in what little spare time I have. It's also much more cost effective than buying a new pack if the inconvenience of having to stop and charge more often isn't bad.

Now if SDG&E follows through and installs thousands of L2 stations (hopefully where I need them), that could go a long ways - being able to top off at your destination can double your effective range if you're parked long enough and even $0.50/kWh would beat EVgo for my scenario without having to detour on the way home. EVgo getting rid of their ridiculous a-la-carte rates would help, too. Psychologically, it's difficult to pay $20/mo to EVgo to pick up another 80 miles of range and takes you even longer to get home after a long day of work, when $20 buys 8 gallons of gas and takes you 350 miles in your other car without any worry about finding a working and available charging station.

Last year I only lost 1.3 Ah between Feb and June - I'd have to nearly triple my rate of capacity loss to get into 4th bar loss territory, the only way that would happen would be to raise the pack temperatures 20C or so higher than last year or drive at least 3 times more. Not going to happen.

 

[Valdemar]

Last year I only lost 1.3 Ah between Feb and June - I'd have to nearly triple my rate of capacity loss to get into 4th bar loss territory, the only way that would happen would be to raise the pack temperatures 20C or so higher than last year or drive at least 3 times more. Not going to happen.

Fwiw, my #4 dropped much sooner than expected, compared to the previous 2.

 

[mwalsh]

Yeah, this is the more reasonable thing to do rather than spend my weekends trying to burn up the pack in what little spare time I have.

I'm not sure you'd have to spend your whole weekend - just an extra couple of charges a week will be helpful. Put it in D and simply hammer it - you will completely exhaust the pack inside of 40 minutes. Charge and repeat as often as you feel able, but I would do it at least once daily until you run out of time or miles.

 

[Stanton]

I'm not sure you'd have to spend your whole weekend - just an extra couple of charges a week will be helpful. Put it in D and simply hammer it - you will completely exhaust the pack inside of 40 minutes. Charge and repeat as often as you feel able, but I would do it at least once daily until you run out of time or miles.

There's one thing I can offer to those still seeking the 4th Bar Grail: I can honestly say the extra time and effort I spent last year driving the sh*t out of my Leaf was worth it in the end (like driving downtown @65 mph, charging--for free--for a couple of hours in 100 degree heat, and returning home to do the same). In return, I get another 4-5 years of electric fun in my Leaf. Obviously, this story would have had a different ending were it not for the capacity warranty...

 

[hillzofvalp]

I wonder if there is a need to create a third party leaf pack capacity verification service, so whenever somebody is borderline, they can proceed to do the replacement at their cost, but require that the pack go through the third party verification service before the dealer ships it off to Nissan. There could be a boycott against replacements until Nissan agreed to allow this. AT that point, they may be motivated enough to lax their 24kWh warranty requirements even more (to be on par with competitors, at least)

Or, we can request that nissan run their own verification test utilizing the methods we demand.

 

[mwalsh]

There's one thing I can offer to those still seeking the 4th Bar Grail: I can honestly say the extra time and effort I spent last year driving the sh*t out of my Leaf was worth it in the end (like driving downtown @65 mph, charging--for free--for a couple of hours in 100 degree heat, and returning home to do the same). In return, I get another 4-5 years of electric fun in my Leaf. Obviously, this story would have had a different ending were it not for the capacity warranty...

Only 65mph? I would routinely test the limits of my car's acceleration and top speed (when safe to do so), bringing my energy economy to sub-3m/kWh and a total range of about 35 miles.

During the week I would simply continue on the freeway past my house on the way home from work to a point further on that I could be sure of being able to return from. On weekends I would get away before my wife woke up and drive to nowhere and back (nowhere just happening to be around 17 miles away from the house). Since I tend to wake up early, on Sunday mornings there was even time to fully recharge again before we had to leave for Church!

The only thing arduous for me was the (at that point) indeterminable amount of time I had to wait before that magical day.

 

[Stanton]

Or, we can request that nissan run their own verification test utilizing the methods we demand.

#1) There aren't enough Leafs out there to support such a service
#2) Like it or not, Nissan didn't have to give anyone a "free" battery pack (lawsuit or not). There were plenty of ways to play it, and those who qualified were lucky to get a 100% brand new (improved) pack.

I understand that's no comfort to those who couldn't/didn't benefit, but that's the reality of the situation. There will be many more "free" packs installed over the next 18 months or so.

 

[mwalsh]

I understand that's no comfort to those who couldn't/didn't benefit, but that's the reality of the situation. There will be many more "free" packs installed over the next 18 months or so.

And we will no doubt have to steel ourselves for needing to empathize with as many owners (if not more) who just missed out.

 

[Marktm]

I am one of those - hoping - but worried that Nissan will find a "loophole" when the SHTF over the next 1-2 years. My 2012 with 9 bars and 26,000 miles has been in the Houston,TX area it's entire life - with 19 months left on the warrantee. I'm going to do my best to eliminate the last bar by driving it every chance I get - with all benefits of saving $$s and having fun. Going to spend the time it takes to make well planned highway trips and use the quick charge as much as possible - for convenience as much as anything......Time will tell.