Buying a used leaf in 2020

[EVornottoEV]

Question for anyone, do the new Leafs still have passive cooling for the batteries meaning they could still suffer in hotter climates, such as mine (Los Angeles)?

Indeed...battery cooling is still passive on new LEAFs.

With all the new EVs available in CA, you may want to select one with battery cooling.

Thanks! I’ve been looking at the Kona and Niro as well.

 

[PrairieLEAF]

Thanks! It’s hard to find info. I’ve been looking at the Kona and Niro as well.

They seem to get good reviews, and Consumer Reports gives them higher reliability scores than the new LEAF.

Also, don't dismiss Tesla. The Model 3 is an incredible value when you consider the tech, performance, space utilization, and charging infrastructure.

I consider the Kona-EV and e-Niro alternatives for those who want their cars to be more familiar and conventional (dash layout, instruments, motor location, etc), but if you're ready for a departure from the norms, I would go Tesla!

 

[EVornottoEV]

They seem to get good reviews, and Consumer Reports gives them higher reliability scores than the new LEAF.

Also, don't dismiss Tesla. The Model 3 is an incredible value when you consider the tech, performance, space utilization, and charging infrastructure.

I consider the Kona-E and e-Niro alternatives for those who want their cars to be more familiar and conventional (dash layout, instruments, motor location, etc), but if you're ready for a departure from the norms, I would go Tesla!

They are nice but the lack of $7500 tax credit is a bit of a deal breaker. It ends up costing a lot more after everything is said and done.

 

[PrairieLEAF]

Gotcha!

I've heard good things about the Hyundai Ioniq EV...you might check them out with the Kona-EV.

 

[countryleaf]

One thing that sold us on the Leaf is the Heat Pump heater. We live in NW Washington and use the heater much more than AC, and battery cooling is not an issue in our climate. I am not sure how many of the other EVs have a Heat Pump, when we were looking it seemed that not many had it.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Between Nissan discounts, dealer discounts, state rebates, and federal tax credit, the Leaf can be a best value EV, depending on your needs. Build quality is consistantly very good, and safety is excellent (and gets accoladed for it).

Even in warmer weather (we have some board members in Phoenix, and managing pretty well, given the temps), the newer (2018+) Leaf has been doing pretty well from a durability/usability perspective. I don't want to dismiss the thermal mgmt question, but if you get a Plus, it becomes an issue only on days over 500 miles in some climates. A little planning can often mitigate many of the issues reported, depending on driving style.

No, its not Tesla fast or cool. But it is fully capable enough for most needs. We have 2 Leaf Plus models (2019 S+ and 2019 SV+). We had a 2013 Leaf we tried due to the super cheap Leases from that era (though you can find similar leases now in some places). We traded our 2013 for a 2019 Leaf Plus SV and then this year traded our Kia Sedonna (2007) minivan for a 2019 Leaf S+. Our kids our 18,16, and 12. Yes, we will cram them in at times, but with more drivers, having two capable EVs for College, school, appts. was key. We dumped the minivan, because no one wanted to drive it anymore. Because the Leaf has great cargo, we can do most things we could haul with the minivan (costco, pingong table, buffet tables, camping, etc.). After discounts/credits, I jumped too soon on our SV+, and paid a net 31K+tax last year and this year bought our 2019 (new) S+ post discounts/credits for 23K. If we lived in CA, CO, or NJ the price for the S+ would have been in the teens (that would have been sweet). Because the S+ has android auto, I find I don't really miss too many of the features in the SV+ (though the remote heat/AC is a must for my wife).

While I have done multi day driving trips in the SV+ last year (college visits in the midwest, Door County), our trips this year have been in the 200-250 mile range, so we have been able to do them on 1 charge. A little technique when driving can help get you 10% farther without compromising reasonable highway speeds (70).

The Model 3, Niro, Kona, Polestar, Bolt, Ionic, are also all very cool, and if fit your needs also possibly very good values. We have stuck with the Leaf as our 2013 was great (battery held up very well), and everyone likes to drive it. We did test drive a Bolt and Tesla prior to the trade ins, but always came back. Having a good local dealer which gives us free charges, snacks, car washes, and service doesn't hurt either. If Niro was available in the midwest (and dealers supported it), I might have been tempted to get that as it has a bit better range and battery capacity....hard to tell if price would have been much different. Wife hated the Telsa, so that was a no go. I personally, am not a fan of Tesla retaining some control over your car features, of which you can't always control. Coming from the software business, it feels more like a limited license, not a hardware purchase. None of care about the power or cornering as our cars, certainly not for an extra 10K or more (the difference in cost at the time). But in LA, you might feel like the Leaf Plus is only barely enough....

Chademo and CCS (for us) right now are kind of at parity, though within my immediate circumference Chademos still outnumber CCS slightly. I haven't had the need for more than 2 Chademo charges on a trip (with destination L2 filling in at longer stops), so haven't had any notable chargegate issues, even in summer. That may feel very different in 3 years. For now, the Chademo options we have now vs. 2013 are night and day.

Good luck with your decision

 

[EVornottoEV]

I found a 2013 with 11/12 bars and a good price. When looking at it, how can I verify the battery health? Would leafspy be the best way? I'm worried the car somehow has less bars but they did a battery reset recently. How can I tell for sure with such a small amount of time to look at it?

 

[SageBrush]

I found a 2013 with 11/12 bars and a good price. When looking at it, how can I verify the battery health? Would leafspy be the best way? I'm worried the car somehow has less bars but they did a battery reset recently. How can I tell for sure with such a small amount of time to look at it?

LS may miss a reset.
Go for a 20+ mile r/t drive and calculate delta KWh / delta SoC
delta kWh is calculated by zeroing a trip meter and using the miles driven and kWh/mile read-outs.

If that is unclear to you, drive the 20+ miles on a freeway at 60 mph and calculate 100* (miles/SoC delta). A result below 70 miles would be suspect.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I would say that the above test should yield a range more like 60 miles, for an 11 bar leaf.

 

[SageBrush]

I would say that the above test should yield a range more like 60 miles, for an 11 bar leaf.

Show your arithmetic

Side comment: arguing over 10 miles range says something about the LEAF of that generation

 

[LeftieBiker]

I am going by the highway range of my 2013 Leaf at 60MPH when it was close to losing the first bar. I am also going by what others have claimed for a highway range, which is lower than about 90% of the brand new highway range of a 2013 Leaf that you give. A Leaf with 11 full bars should get about 60 miles at 60MPH, especially if the A/C is used and there are any hills. 55MPH might get close to 70 miles.

 

[SageBrush]

A/C will introduce a huge variable -- avoid during the 'miles' test.

The 24 kWh LEAF battery started out with ~ 21.5 kWh usable capacity when new, and a range of 84 miles
11 bars puts the battery in the range of 80 - 85% of new,

80% of 84 = 67.2 miles
85% of 84 = 71.4 miles

----
OP should keep in mind that he is trying to avoid falling for a reset battery. That is not a 10.75 bar battery, it is much more likely a markedly degraded battery. Any half-assed capacity test will probably catch a fraudster. So while I think 60 miles of range is an under-estimate, it is probably OK to use since it implies a battery that is still way more than I expect of reset batteries

 

[EVornottoEV]

Thanks for the advice everyone on testing battery on some of these used leafs. The problem is I've not found a dealer that will let me drive it more than a mile or 2. I live in a very congested area and I'm lucky if they let me go around the block a few times. A 20 mile journey could take well over an hour here. I also get this feeling that since these are used, cheap vehicles, they are even less inclined to give me much time. I was looking at used Leafs at a ford dealership yesterday and it was difficult to even get the doors open to look inside, let alone a 20 mile test drive.

 

[SageBrush]

I would not buy that LEAF without an adequate test drive, but I would offer to pay for a short rental.

 

[gncndad]

I just did a quick Cargurus search, 2012-2014 Leaf, Los Angeles...there are several. I agree with others. You do NOT want to buy a Leaf w/o taking a lengthy test drive.
Good luck!

 

[EVornottoEV]

After a few days of trips to dealers and short test drives I think my search for a used leaf is done. I’m just not a gambler and this feels like too big of a gamble.

Going to continue checking out the Niro and Kona, maybe even look at some PHEVs. Thank you all. I’ll update here once I finally purchase something.

 

[LeftieBiker]

Your other option would be to see if they will write into the sales contract that no capacity bars will drop in 30 days, or the car can be returned. Yes, I know - unlikely, but worth a try. If they know that they didn't reset the BMS, and the car wasn't bought at auction, it's a safe bet for the dealership.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I agree with SageBrush in this case, it sounds too iffy to take the risk. Plenty of old Leaf's out there.

 

[EVornottoEV]

In case anyone is on the edge of their seat wondering what I bought...

I picked up a 2017 Bolt today. It was coming off a lease. I paid just under $16000. It's a bit more car than I need but I should be good for awhile with the range and battery. I feel more comfortable with the battery cooling situation on the Bolt.

 

[alozzy]

Smart choice for SoCal, sounds like a decent price for a Bolt.

Your Bolt's battery pack has likely degraded 10% or less, thanks to the TMS pack cooling. A 2017 LEAF in SoCal would likely have double the degradation.