Buy This Battery?

[thankyouOB]

We arent the only ones confused by nissans SYB* program.

i explained the $100 battery leasing program to the head of public relations at a major university in CA. i did not call it the SYB program.
What brought it up was her expressing interest (after she heard i have a LEAF) in the BMW announcement that owners of the BMW EV would have access to BMW loaners for long trips. "that will allay allot of range anxiety. it is a good move."
she owns a 2012 bmw two-door hottie, but bemoans the gas bills.

she described the nissan SYB plan as a PR disaster. Without any prompting she said, "they are abandoning the early adopters."
she was particularly concerned -- from a legal and marketing viewpoint -- that nissan waited more than 2.5 years before telling purchasers that they would not be able to buy a replacement battery.

 

[thankyouOB]

SYB program is not acceptable to the vast majority of buyers.
it is made worse because the car was sold for more than two years without notifying buyers that the cannot buy a replacement for the most expensive and most important car component.

this is a class action lawsuit looking for a law firm.
owners would rather see it fixed than litigated.
do something soon, nissan.

 

[mwalsh]

this is a class action lawsuit looking for a law firm.
owners would rather see it fixed than litigated.
do something soon, nissan.

I'm not pissed enough to go after a class action. Not yet at least. But I do know just the law firm to bring in if/when I am.

 

[thankyouOB]

back for air.

seriously, are their ANY buyers of 2011 or 2012 models who
1. think this SYB program is fair?

or

2. think it will be modified and batteries will eventually be sold before you need a replacement?

 

[TomT]

seriously, are their ANY buyers of 2011 or 2012 models who
1. think this SYB program is fair? NO
or
2. think it will be modified and batteries will eventually be sold before you need a replacement? NO

 

[OPECsux]

Don't panic folks, I'm sure some aftermarket company will start making batteries for the Leaf and drive the price of the oem battery down. In the RC world when everyone went from Nitro ICE to brushless and lithium polymer batteries the price was sky high, as soon as the Chinese figured out a way to sell the stuff directly to consumers, the price plummeted although the quality is not the greatest. Perfect example: Eflite 3cell 2200mah batteries used to sell for like $60 or more, GeForce 3 cell 2200mah batts are now $13.99. Unless there is some sort of faaking monopoly or patent bs we'll be good, sorry yall will be good, I sold my Leaf

 

[surfingslovak]

Unless there is some sort of faaking monopoly or patent bs we'll be good, sorry yall will be good, I sold my Leaf

The LMO cells in the LEAF appear to be fairly straightforward, and with a little luck, a generic lithium manganese oxide cell will do. The key problem will likely be the form factor, and figuring out how to keep the original pack hardware, including wire harnesses and the battery controller.

 

[cgaydos]

back for air.

seriously, are their ANY buyers of 2011 or 2012 models who
1. think this SYB program is fair?

or

2. think it will be modified and batteries will eventually be sold before you need a replacement?

I think (2) is highly likely. As many on this forum have stated, the current half-baked program smells strongly of a desperate attempt to buy time.

I fully understand those in high temp climates having a lot of anxiety about this. But in our moderate-to-cool climate (never seen 7 temp bars yet on either LEAF) I expect to go a lot of years before needing to think about battery replacement. In fact, I don't think we have any chance of cashing in on the new battery degradation warranty. When you remove the high-temp issue and avoid the obvious stuff like letting the LEAF sit for a long period at 100% charge then the battery life appears to be pretty damn good.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

I fully understand those in high temp climates having a lot of anxiety about this. But in our moderate-to-cool climate (never seen 7 temp bars yet on either LEAF) I expect to go a lot of years before needing to think about battery replacement. In fact, I don't think we have any chance of cashing in on the new battery degradation warranty. When you remove the high-temp issue and avoid the obvious stuff like letting the LEAF sit for a long period at 100% charge then the battery life appears to be pretty damn good.

I would normally have agreed with you. However, I just leased a 2013 in June, manufactured in March. It wasn't warm until late June and has been seasonable July here in the 80s and 90s.

Battery capacity when I first checked at 2 weeks of ownership was already down to 94%. Its working its way down to 92%. If this rate continues I'd be down 4 bars around the end of our 2 yr lease. But I assume (hope) degradation will slow down when it cools off. Its pretty alarming to see a 2 month old car down to 92%. If the bars were all even capacity, I would have already lost a bar.

 

[derkraut]

back for air.

seriously, are their ANY buyers of 2011 or 2012 models who
1. think this SYB program is fair?

or

2. think it will be modified and batteries will eventually be sold before you need a replacement?

I'm the owner of a 2011; With my style/amount of driving, I don't expect to have to replace the battery for at least 5+ years. That being said, I am hoping/anticipating that Nissan will soon announce a purchase price for the battery, and that the price will come down with time (like the Prius battery). I think option #1 is silly for owners. I purchased my entire car (including the battery). There's no way I would give my battery back to Nissan and rent another one from them for $100 a month. :roll:

 

[surfingslovak]

But I assume (hope) degradation will slow down when it cools off. Its pretty alarming to see a 2 month old car down to 92%. If the bars were all even capacity, I would have already lost a bar.

Yes, things slow down considerably come fall and winter, and you might even gain some capacity. This effect has been attributed to a number of things, including inaccurate instrumentation and others, but nobody knows for sure. That said, we did not have adequate means of monitoring pack health back in 2011 and 2012. Aside from the select few with a Gid meter, which gives some idea of what might be going on, nobody was really aware of this phenomenon. The heat sensitivity of the battery and the related electronics only became a focal point because of the events in Phoenix last summer. You guys are the first generation of owners watching this in real time, thanks to all the CAN bus hacking, Jim's app, Greg's meter and a host of other activity on that front.

 

[DaveEV]

But batteries are built in batches that take several weeks to complete and not totally clued in on the process but guessing the results of each batch is not known until the final product is completed and tested.

this has to make troubleshooting and refining the process all that much more difficult

It appears to take 2-3 months to take a lithium battery from start of manufacture to ready for use due to the "settling" process. That said - it's been at 7 months since Nissan said that they started battery manufacturing in Tennessee - so either they are really taking their time in ramping up production, or they have had some significant production issues at the plant.

LG Chem Battery Plant Now Making Chevrolet Volt And Focus Electric Batteries

“Once manufactured, lithium ion batteries require a settling period before use, so the company anticipates making its first shipments in late September or early October,”

Having such a long lead time on manufacturing has got to be a major planning issue for automobile production where normally they run very lean inventories for production.

 

[kubel]

seriously, are their ANY buyers of 2011 or 2012 models who
1. think this SYB program is fair?

2. think it will be modified and batteries will eventually be sold before you need a replacement?

Let's look at it for what it is. Nissan is attempting to obfuscate the cost of the pack for now (to avoid a PR nightmare of announcing an outrageously expensive pack cost) while giving LEAF owners the ability to obtain a new pack for their car, if desired. This isn't a program. It's a cloak.

Because of this, they absolutely cannot set an endpoint or buyout option at this point, because that would essentially reveal what they are trying to hide- the cost of the pack. With no endpoint to the lease, it's not unfair, it just doesn't make sense. It's incomplete.

It seems to me that they are trying to buy time. For what, I'm not sure. A cheap pack? Or the second death of the electric car? My guess is the latter. My guess is they would rather offer buy outs to LEAF owners who participate in this program before they reveal the cost of the pack. If that's the case, it may be a very slick deal.