Buy This Battery?

[thankyouOB]

I have been applauded and attacked for continuing to rant about nissan's failure to fulfill its pledge to provide a sale price for a replacement battery.
i have criticized the firm particularly for promising to provide a price for months and then changing its mind and deciding that they will never sell a replacement battery, and I have also targeted nissan for not revealing (for more 2+ years after the car went on sale) the ugly secret that owners could never buy a replacement battery for the car.

To get to the point of this thread, please offer ideas, guesses or facts on why you think nissan has decided that the battery is not for sale.
They have given us no reason at all.

 

[TonyWilliams]

To sell it at a normal profit margin, it would likely sell for $18,000.

My Rav4 EV has a battery price: $36,000.

Can you imagine how that might be used against a company trying to sell EV's ? Toyota doesn't care, but Nissan does.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

I agree with Tony, real price may shock many.

 

[smkettner]

Where were all the posts that had "inside info" that cost was under $5,000?
OK I know Nissan will not retail it installed at cost but if normal markup is persued to the tune of $18,000 LEAF will be a one hit wonder for most people.
Then of course $18,000 may not be so bad if most batteries would hold 80% capacity for 10 years 120,000 miles as expected.

 

[thankyouOB]

why not price it two ways: stand alone and with core return.

if you give a substantial value to the core, which is likely at 50-70% capacity, then the new battery price is less eye-popping.
also, as an owner, i am not really interested in keeping my old battery anymore than i wanted to keep my old bridgestones, even though they still had 15k+ miles left on them.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

why not price it two ways: stand alone and with core return.

if you give a substantial value to the core, which is likely at 50-70% capacity, then the new battery price is less eye-popping.
also, as an owner, i am not really interested in keeping my old battery anymore than i wanted to keep my old bridgestones, even thought they still had 15k+ miles left on them.

Likewise, I would think the worn battery won't have as much value as you might hope.

On another thread someone said they were told a $10k price for replacement. Was that disproven or confirmed with Nissan? $10k seems very realistic. You can go for 8 years 4 months leasing the battery at $100/mo before you'd break even. Maybe Nissan seriously thinks the $100 lease is a cheaper alternative that provides coverage for the battery ongoing and allows a transition to better batteries.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

The cost of the battery is substantially higher than they want to admit, releasing that info would unleash a PR nightmare. Our cars are all being subsidized by a combination of the U.S. taxpayer and compliance requirements.

They're still scratching their heads (along with other anatomical parts) trying to figure out how to deal with the mess they, along with the regulatory environment, have created. So there are various schemes to kick the can down the road.

How'd you like to be the guy tasked with figuring out what to do with all these cars coming off lease starting in a few months?

 

[thankyouOB]

Likewise, I would think the worn battery won't have as much value as you might hope.

if nissan is concerned about appearance of price, they could inflate the core value, and then protect from the grifters by adding requirements that tie the new battery to a verified owner.

it would include an install and remove fee and requirement, so you could not walk in with an old battery and walk out with a new one.

 

[OPECsux]

If the price of a new battery is indeed $18,000 then the resale value of these cars at 60,000 to 80,000 miles will be close to the scrap value of the metals.

 

[Stoaty]

If the price of a new battery is indeed $18,000 then the resale value of these cars at 60,000 to 80,000 miles will be close to the scrap value of the metals.

No, because you can buy a used Leaf, pay $100 per month and get a new battery which will be kept at 9 bars or above. Over a period of 8 years that is $9600.

 

[Nubo]

They're fraidy-cats.

 

[NuclearLeaf]

Smart USA values their battery at $5010 for 17.6 kWh. This figures out to $284.66 per kWh. The Leaf Battery is 24kWh @ $284.66 should be $6831.84 the information comes from this link http://insideevs.com/smart-electric...-lease-deal-and-battery-rental-offer-now-out/

 

[thankyouOB]

They're fraidy-cats.

Outstanding!
Outstanding.

 

[jhm614]

Smart USA values their battery at $5010 for 17.6 kWh. This figures out to $284.66 per kWh. The Leaf Battery is 24kWh @ $284.66 should be $6831.84 the information comes from this link http://insideevs.com/smart-electric...-lease-deal-and-battery-rental-offer-now-out/

Note: It says Smart USA values their battery at $5010 but NOT that you can buy one for that. You can lease it $80 per month for 60 months. However, at the end of the 60 months, you don't own the battery. You can chose to lease it for another 60 months or return the battery to Smart.

 

[smkettner]

Smart USA values their battery at $5010 for 17.6 kWh. This figures out to $284.66 per kWh. The Leaf Battery is 24kWh @ $284.66 should be $6831.84 the information comes from this link http://insideevs.com/smart-electric...-lease-deal-and-battery-rental-offer-now-out/

Note: It says Smart USA values their battery at $5010 but NOT that you can buy one for that. You can lease it $80 per month for 60 months. However, at the end of the 60 months, you don't own the battery. You can chose to lease it for another 60 months or return the battery to Smart.

That is fine if I can retain my battery and let it sit until the lease is up and reinstall it.

 

[thankyouOB]

i wanted to surface this query which has its roots in the nissan SYB* program, for those who are new or maybe making a weekend visit to the forum.
my apologies to those 2013 buyers who complained that i am tiresome in discussing this topic.

To get to the point of this thread, please offer ideas, guesses or facts on why you think nissan has decided that the battery is not for sale. They have given us no reason at all.

or tell us what you think the real reason is that nissan pulled the bait-and-switch on buyers of the car and told them they could never own or buy a replacement battery.


*steal-your-battery program

 

[jhm614]

tell us what you think the real reason is that nissan pulled the bait-and-switch on buyers of the car and told them they could never own or buy a replacement battery.

I agree with the other posters -- price is the reason they haven't put the battery on sale yet.

If the battery price is too high, and it probably is, Nissan will take an enormous public relations beating. Not only here at MNL (I can already imagine how those threads would go... "OMG! HOW COULD THEY DO THIS! THEY ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THEIR EARLY ADOPTERS, I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER... etc."), but a high price would also be widely reported. Nissan would take a beating in the main stream press, plus create the impression that EVs are too expensive to repair. (And who know, that might actually be true if the battery price is crazy high).

If the price is surprisingly low, then Nissan will catch flack for having too much margin on the current (and the original) MSRPs.

Actually, now that I re-read the above paragraphs, it wouldn't matter if the battery were low priced, they could just charge more for it. It must be that price is too high. Either way, I do believe that Nissan will begin selling the batteries once they can do it a price point that won't be a PR disaster.

Another theory is there is a better battery coming and Nissan doesn't want to sell the current tech at a high price, when they know it would be obsolete shortly.

Nissan is catching grief for not giving a price here on the forum but it's not hurting their sales. There is less than 1 month's inventory available nation-wide. If this issue does somehow begin to affect sales, they will do exactly what you recommended -- only sell the battery with an core exchange and the make the price very, very reasonable. But as long as they are selling as many Leafs as they are making, they probably won't change the policy until the battery hits that PR friendly price point.

edit-- one more thought. Is the TN battery factory completely online? If not, maybe that is a factor.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I have been applauded and attacked for continuing to rant about nissan's failure to fulfill its pledge to provide a sale price for a replacement battery.
i have criticized the firm particularly for promising to provide a price for months and then changing its mind, and I have also targeted nissan for not revealing (for more 2+ years after the car went on sale) that owners could not buy a replacement battery for the car.

To get to the point of this thread, please offer ideas, guesses or facts on why you think nissan has decided that the battery is not for sale. They have given us no reason at all.

well, why would anyone want to buy a battery?

answer; their current one is not holding up.

why wont Nissan sell them one?

answer 1; the customer would be essentially buying the same thing that has already proven to be unsatisfactory. TaylorSF with 80,000 miles might be the only exception to that. We are now seeing people with degradation approaching his at half the mileage lending credence that time is also a factor in degradation.

answer 2; Cost. batteries would be very expensive and prove to be a disappointment to the customer just as the first pack was.

So why lease the same battery chemistry?

answer 1; this allows customer to choose their own level of "replacement" degradation level unlike the warranty program which has to have 4 missing bars and also meets the very urgent (although very few are ready to replace their batteries) customer demand.

answer 2; this allows Nissan time to get the right chemistry (note I said chemistry and not capacity) as much as I would love and extra 30-40 miles of range (75 more would be a dream but a 120 mile range car is one I would buy under $27,000 after incentives) there is still a huge market for cars in the 75 mile range and the chemistry that will allow 90% capacity after 100,000 miles is out there somewhere...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

stating the obvious here I think...

edit-- one more thought. Is the TN battery factory completely online? If not, maybe that is a factor.

considering they cant keep up with a 2000-2500/month sales pace, I am guessing there is "something" that is not running up to snuff

 

[jhm614]

considering they cant keep up with a 2000-2500/month sales pace, I am guessing there is "something" that is not running up to snuff

Yes, but is it the battery factory? Could it be the new motor/inverter/charging stack? Hence the spate of 2013 PDM problems?

stating the obvious here I think...

Well, my wife does tell me *all the time* that I'm a master of the obvious. I'm pretty sure that's a complement.


Good points on the reasons, too. I'm sure you are right -- it's a combination of the price and the current capabilities.