BMW i3 vs Leaf

[jelloslug]

But, everyone sees different values in products!

really..? pray tell me, what value do you see in this product that will make you shell out $15K more than its closest competitor (Leaf) ?

I thought the same thing until I drove the i3. It's in a different league than the Leaf.

 

[TomT]

Having driven an i3 extensively, I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing... It left me unimpressed at that price

I thought the same thing until I drove the i3. It's in a different league than the Leaf.

 

[Valdemar]

But, everyone sees different values in products!

really..? pray tell me, what value do you see in this product that will make you shell out $15K more than its closest competitor (Leaf) ?

I thought the same thing until I drove the i3. It's in a different league than the Leaf.

It is. I'd probably pick it over Leaf and MBZ B-Class ED if I could part with extra 15k and not think about it, but more likely I would just get a 328d xDrive for not much more diesel fuel including

 

[derkraut]

Maybe he knows Walter White! :lol:
He certainly does not know Teslas!

You are the first person that I have every seen to proclaim Tesla "ugly". Did you ever own a Pontiac Aztec?

Hey Tony W: You wanna talk UGLY? I'll see your ugly Pontiac Aztec and raise you one AMC Gremlin (Now...that was an ugly car)

 

[rickh]

I drove and research both, and the i3 is just a brand, I don't feel it is a value, no even BMW feels that way when they depreciate the car 46% in 3y, 36% in 4. Interior finish of the i3 is too basic and simple, almost prototypish. Externally I can live with these doors, the paint colors and choice of black on the top I just don't like, but the worst are the wheels that use some ridiculous bike size tires with no spare of course and a repair kit instead. I could bear that if the tire size was standard, but it is not, and if you have a flat there is good chance that you will have to be towed to a BMW dealer to replace at BMW cost your tires, all assuming they have stock.

The driving of the two cars felt great, nice acceleration and I didn't feel the i3 much faster, only more noticeable the deceleration. The top Leaf has similar equipment than the i3, in fact I noted the i3 didn't have steering wheel heater. Also the i3 technology package allows to monitor and control your car with only iPhone. The Leaf carwings does have apps available from iPhone, Android, and even Windows Phone. Because I am an engineer, I even contacted BMW factory in Germany to see if they would facilitate an API (software tools) to develop in other phones, but they are hermetic, so this won't change much or open to other useful apps any time soon.

Externally looking from the side, I like the i3, but from the front, and back specially looks weird, these tiny tires remember me the old cheap Citroen 2CV that existed decades back in Europe.

On top of that, Nissan has much better deals with, invoice price, rebates, 0% interest, or better lease devaluation gap that get you a car for less than half...

I am trying to get a Leaf now, perhaps in a couple years BMW comes with something more realistic. I am also watching closely the Mercedes release, but as today is vaporware to me!

 

[TomT]

Hey, don't forget the Pacer!

Hey Tony W: You wanna talk UGLY? I'll see your ugly Pontiac Aztec and raise you one AMC Gremlin (Now...that was an ugly car)

 

[lorenfb]

"I am trying to get a Leaf now, perhaps in a couple years BMW comes with something more realistic. I am also watching closely the Mercedes release, but as today is vaporware to me!"

BMW doesn't compete in the same low end market with Nissan and never will.
They will always provide a product & price above Nissan. So don't expect BMW
to be price competitive to Nissan in the future.

"You are the first person that I have every seen to proclaim Tesla "ugly". Did you ever own a Pontiac Aztec?"

Yes, some think the MS is ugly and many think it's rather bland for $125K.
The interior is truly ugly with that HUGE display which one might call "an in-dash Surface tablet".
And who needs to be distracted while "scrolling" a display to adjust the fan speed.
Neither M/B nor BMW would ever design such an un-esthetically appealing dash.
You obviously have a small group of Tesla fan boys you talk to.

 

[evnow]

But, everyone sees different values in products!

really..? pray tell me, what value do you see in this product that will make you shell out $15K more than its closest competitor (Leaf) ?

I thought the same thing until I drove the i3. It's in a different league than the Leaf.

The problem is - lot of opinions stated as if they are "facts". Some may be willing to pay $30k more than Leaf for just the brand name, for eg. Some others will not see any worth in a small car with lower utility than Leaf - I wouldn't buy it even if it was much cheaper than Leaf.

Value is really subjective - since people value different features differently. Afterall we buy EVs because we place different value on (pick your reason for buying an EV) than 99% of the population that buys ICE.

 

[aarond12]

And who needs to be distracted while "scrolling" a display to adjust the fan speed.

Except in certain screens (e.g., full-screen browser), the fan/climate controls are docked to the bottom.

http://image.motortrend.com/f/roadtests/oneyear/alternative/1404_2013_tesla_model_s_p85_update_3/60269364/2013-Tesla-Model-S-dash-scren-view-full.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Having recently driven the i3, I have to be in the category of unimpressed too. My current car is a Mitsubishi i-MiEV (a LEAF is likely next), also a 4-seater car. The interior of the i3 felt more cramped, albeit with higher quality materials than my i-MiEV. Sure the ride and acceleration is better, but is it doubly better? I would rather buy two i-MiEV for the price of one i3.

 

[derkraut]

Hey, don't forget the Pacer!

Hey Tony W: You wanna talk UGLY? I'll see your ugly Pontiac Aztec and raise you one AMC Gremlin (Now...that was an ugly car)

Ya...the AMC Pacer was an econobox that looked like it was about 8 months pregnant. :lol:

 

[GRA]

Hey, don't forget the Pacer!

Hey Tony W: You wanna talk UGLY? I'll see your ugly Pontiac Aztec and raise you one AMC Gremlin (Now...that was an ugly car)

Ya...the AMC Pacer was an econobox that looked like it was about 8 months pregnant. :lol:

Hey, compared to the Juke, the Fishbowl was a classicly beautiful example of auto design!

 

[nosuchthing]

Ya...the AMC Pacer was an econobox that looked like it was about 8 months pregnant. :lol:

Ya...I used to own that SOB. Had to preheat it for the guy that came to look at it. Sold! $2,500. Took the cash and bought 80' Prelude the next day.

AMC Pacer. The worst car I ever owned. Actually, no. It matches my 94' Dodge Caravan. Thankfully, that one got stolen in Oakland. The best thing that happened to me in a long time, generosity of AAA. I swore right then, I will never buy another Chrysler product so long as I own a car. Even the dealer went out of business.

 

[TomT]

No argument there!

Hey, compared to the Juke, the Fishbowl was a classicly beautiful example of auto design!

 

[TomT]

I'm not a Tesla fan boy and I think the car is beautiful inside and out. I love the 17" display and touchscreen controls... And I'd like to know how you think you can get the price up to 125K!
I do have to wonder if you have actually ever driven one... :roll:

You obviously have a small group of Tesla fan boys you talk to.

 

[jelloslug]

"I am trying to get a Leaf now, perhaps in a couple years BMW comes with something more realistic. I am also watching closely the Mercedes release, but as today is vaporware to me!"

BMW doesn't compete in the same low end market with Nissan and never will.
They will always provide a product & price above Nissan. So don't expect BMW
to be price competitive to Nissan in the future.

"You are the first person that I have every seen to proclaim Tesla "ugly". Did you ever own a Pontiac Aztec?"

Yes, some think the MS is ugly and many think it's rather bland for $125K.
The interior is truly ugly with that HUGE display which one might call "an in-dash Surface tablet".
And who needs to be distracted while "scrolling" a display to adjust the fan speed.
Neither M/B nor BMW would ever design such an un-esthetically appealing dash.
You obviously have a small group of Tesla fan boys you talk to.

So you have never actually sat in a Tesla, let alone have ever driven one.

 

[Pipcecil]

Yes, some think the MS is ugly and many think it's rather bland for $125K.
The interior is truly ugly with that HUGE display which one might call "an in-dash Surface tablet".
And who needs to be distracted while "scrolling" a display to adjust the fan speed.
Neither M/B nor BMW would ever design such an un-esthetically appealing dash.

Having seen many and driven a Model S I can see where you are coming from. Firstly, the car does look semi-normal. it doesn't have any "iconic" items that BMW or Mercedes has (they both have some iconic parts on the outside), but beyond those, they still do look like a normal car for the most part. The interior is the same as any luxury car I have been in (seats, console, etc.), hell even the shifter is in the same place as those cars - left side on the steering column with the turn signal lower.

Now for the large display.....yes it seems rather large and it LOOKS rather large - until you drive it. Then you realize, holy geez its nice to have BIG buttons to press stuff and do stuff. Yup, the size is right when you are replacing all your buttons. I was in the same boat of "its too large" until I drove it and was using a split screen (no scrolling required) and it was wonderful. Anything smaller and you could only fit on thing on the screen and the buttons would be small. It was more of a functionality thing first before aesthetics. And once you use it - physical buttons just feel so....last century and archaic.

 

[jelloslug]

---snip---- physical buttons just feel so....last century and archaic.

Plus, the most common driver controls are reproduced on the steering wheel with mini displays that flank the speedo.

 

[Phatcat73]

I had the opportunity to test drive an i3 yesterday. That didn't happen due to low headroom and me hitting the ceiling despite trying a variety of seating adjustments. I'm 6'6" There's plenty of legroom, but less headroom than the Leaf.

I had a worse headroom issue in the Model S. I'm crossing my fingers the model X will be roomier.

 

[Valdemar]

I'm 6-4 and found legroom to be better in the i3 and headroom about the same as in the Leaf. That was in a Euro-spec car. Is it possible US model is different?