Best Charging Setup for Parking Garage

[KJD]

Leviton 160 is a dumbell evse (s/b zero maintenance) and it comes in a very tough steel box.
Only needs 20a 240v circuit.

How are these 20amp units going to play with future 6.6kW chargers? I presume no problem, but wouldn't bet money on that.

The problem will be when Nissan goes to the 6.6kW charger next year and the owners are going to expect that all charge stations work the same. If you have Leviton 16 amp units out there that take twice as long to charge, then people are going to be unhappy with that.

The Leaf is an absolute great car, but Nissan made a mistake by only putting in a wimpy 3.3kw charger in the current version. My bet is that 2012 is the last year for that size charger.

 

[smkettner]

If you are staying 3+ days does it matter if it takes 4 hour or 8 hour to charge?
Yes for half day use a 30 amp unit would be better. I doubt the parking garage gets much of that but I could be wrong.

BTW have you been to LAX with 75 Leafs and two Chargepoints? For the same money LAX could have had 4 to 10 Leviton 160.

 

[TNleaf]

<snip>

My real issue was which L2 EVSE to recommend.

I saw someone mention the Schneider Electric units. There was also a question about support for higher than 3.3kW rates.

We were able to use the outdoor dual-port Schneider EVSEs at our Nashville Plug-in Day event. Also, there are commercial EVSEs installed in several parking garages on Vanderbilt's Campus.

Here's a link to the page for more info. EVlink Outdoor
And the PDF installation document shows that it does support higher rates, much like their residential indoor unit. Each J1772 connector requires a 40A breaker (input current is 30Amax).

Also, they have an option for energy metering/monitoring and an RFID reader which is nice for a commercial installation. I'm actually in the middle of getting one of these units installed at my workplace; the most expensive part is the installation, depending on the necessity to drill into the concrete/asphalt and the length of conduit/wires run to the feeder panel. Message me if you'd like more info.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[TonyWilliams]

<snip>

My real issue was which L2 EVSE to recommend.

I'm actually in the middle of getting one of these units installed at my workplace; the most expensive part is the installation, depending on the necessity to drill into the concrete/asphalt and the length of conduit/wires run to the feeder panel. Message me if you'd like more info.

This will be new construction, if I understand correctly.

 

[KJD]

If you are staying 3+ days does it matter if it takes 4 hour or 8 hour to charge?
Yes for half day use a 30 amp unit would be better. I doubt the parking garage gets much of that but I could be wrong.

If you assume one charge station per parking stall then you are right it may not matter. If you assume one charge station can be used from 3 or 4 different parking stalls as mentioned earlier, then it matters how long it takes to charge.

What if I am going to the airport just to pick someone up or just drop someone to catch a flight, then it matters.

On the Home Depot site the 30 amp GE Wattstation is the same price as the 16 amp Leviton.

http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Auto-Electric-Car-Chargers/h_d1/N-5yc1vZbzjt/h_d2/Navigation?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&Nu=P_PARENT_ID&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&langId=-1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[smkettner]

What if I am going to the airport just to pick someone up or just drop someone to catch a flight, then it matters.

Yes and a fee based L3 central to the airport might be best for this purpose.
I have never used a parking garage to drop off or pick up so to me that does not really come into my recommendations.
If I did park during drop/pick-up I would be using the airport parking in the terminal. I have my doubts this is the central airport parking but rather a nearby long term with possibly a shuttle to the terminal.
A 40a connector shared by four spots may also prove useless to three EVs. You could easily be waiting 4 to 12+ hours to get a turn at transient charging.

 

[TonyWilliams]

On the Home Depot site the 30 amp GE Wattstation is the same price as the 16 amp Leviton.

And the cost to the parking garage in electricity is double... plus whatever demand charges that may trigger.

 

[TonyWilliams]

A 40a connector shared by four spots may also prove useless to three EVs.

40 amps / 240v providing for terminals of 20amp/120v each will cover all four spots.

 

[garygid]

Spreading 10 "charging" spaces amoung 40 parking spaces helps with several problems:

1. all 10 spaces are used or blocked, but many of the cars are not charging.

2. The 10 charging stations could charge 20, 30, or even 40 cars with one L2 and some simple sockets at each station.

Example:
Having one L2 & 120v ChargePoint at each of 10 close-packed spaces ... is a waste of 10 charging ports.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The four unit cluster is what we talked about. 115 spots just for EVs, up to 500 new spots.

Valet service for 4 spots in the front, with 24 hr "hot". All others "in the back" on timers to charge only at night, off peak. Charge timers need to be off in the EV. I suggested one of the 4 charge units be hot 24 hrs for day-use folks.

All spots with NEMA 5-15r. I suggested also 14-50r. Also suggested Clipper Creek ACS-15 EVSE (120v-16a) for the off peak long term spots.

Seemed open to L3 valet service, with 208v 3 phase on site.

 

[TNleaf]

<snip>

My real issue was which L2 EVSE to recommend.

I'm actually in the middle of getting one of these units installed at my workplace; the most expensive part is the installation, depending on the necessity to drill into the concrete/asphalt and the length of conduit/wires run to the feeder panel. Message me if you'd like more info.

This will be new construction, if I understand correctly.

Just an update (sort of offtopic), yesterday I noticed they had power to the EVSE at work here, and today the building manager got in contact with me and we plugged in.

Charging at work! I think the Schneider Electric EVSE looks nice!

Click on thumbnail for full image.

 

[earther]

Yes and a fee based L3 central to the airport might be best for this purpose.
I have never used a parking garage to drop off or pick up so to me that does not really come into my recommendations.
If I did park during drop/pick-up I would be using the airport parking in the terminal. I have my doubts this is the central airport parking but rather a nearby long term with possibly a shuttle to the terminal.
A 40a connector shared by four spots may also prove useless to three EVs. You could easily be waiting 4 to 12+ hours to get a turn at transient charging.

Airport pickup/dropoffs are something I do fairly frequently (well, on reflection, maybe once a month on average, but it seems like all the time!) I certainly concur that a L3 in long term parking seems useless (there, the lowly L1 seems optimal) -- but being 40+ miles from the airport, I personally would have no qualms at all about paying for a L3 QuickCharge at the airport, even at a premium.

 

[smkettner]

The four unit cluster is what we talked about. 115 spots just for EVs, up to 500 new spots.

Valet service for 4 spots in the front, with 24 hr "hot". All others "in the back" on timers to charge only at night, off peak. Charge timers need to be off in the EV. I suggested one of the 4 charge units be hot 24 hrs for day-use folks.

All spots with NEMA 5-15r. I suggested also 14-50r. Also suggested Clipper Creek ACS-15 EVSE (120v-16a) for the off peak long term spots.

Seemed open to L3 valet service, with 208v 3 phase on site.

Perfect IMO. With 22% coverage it should work out fine. The timers to get off peak rates is great although if there is any malfunction the vehicle owner will not know until he returns with not being charged.
14-50 is a lot more power than 5-15 so you may only need 4 or 10 max for the occasional Tesla that is in a hurry.

 

[Herm]

I certainly concur that a L3 in long term parking seems useless (there, the lowly L1 seems optimal) -- but being 40+ miles from the airport, I personally would have no qualms at all about paying for a L3 QuickCharge at the airport, even at a premium.

The L3 charger could be anywhere in the airport.. my idea is that it should be visible to the toll collector booth at a parking lot for security, or perhaps even use a dumb Nissan L3 charger and you pay the attendant prior to charging. It does not need to be inside the parking lot, just outside is fine. Obviously it would not work if its an automated coin operated parking lot.

The attendant could also call the tow truck if you hog the charger for more than 45 minutes

 

[Reddy]

Tony, your last post made me think that it might be useful to have multiple sub-sections with charging levels and times for various parking times. For example, a) 1 hr/night L1, b) 2 hr/night L1, c) 3 hr/night L1.....d) 1 hr/night L2, e) 2 hr/night L2, etc.... Thus, if you are planning to park for a week and need a full charge, you park in the section with 3 hr/night L1 for 7 days. If you only need a 1/2 charge, you park in the 1 or 2 hr/night spot. If you need a full charge, but only park overnight, then you park in the 8 hr/night L2. Yes, it's a bit complicated but probably still workable. This allows the EV owner the ability to park according to their need (SOC) and accommodates variable KWH batteries, chargers (3.3 KW Leaf, 6.6 KW Ford, 20 KW Tesla, etc.), driving speeds, temperatures, etc.

In addition, this would allow the charging stations to turn on/off as needed to achieve the total time but not necessarily require separate circuits (well, circuits might not be that expensive but at least load level). Also, the property owner might be able to negotiate better rates with the power company if they include "load-frequency balancing" (AKA smart grid) by turning off the load for short periods of time based on stress on the grid.

Please keep in mind that I have no real knowledge or experience in any of this. I'll leave the details to the experts.

Reddy

 

[smkettner]

With power cycling on/off I would be setting my timer to 80% to avoid multiple charges to 100%.
Even if power was on continuous much of the draw would still be at night due to the slow nature of 120v charging.

 

[garygid]

Status lights would help, perhaps up a pole.
Light On = Available (Power is On, but actively Charging).

Use a different (standard) color for each connection type, and have them easily visible to a vehicle driving by.

Even better, is have the lights ALSO visible by looking down a row from the end.

Then, the HUNT for an Available connection of the desired type(s) would be GREATLY facilitated.

 

[walterbays]

Valet service for 4 spots in the front, with 24 hr "hot". All others "in the back" on timers to charge only at night, off peak. Charge timers need to be off in the EV. I suggested one of the 4 charge units be hot 24 hrs for day-use folks.

I wouldn't share smkettner's worry about repeatedly charging to 100%. If I were parked in your garage for a trip from Monday morning to Friday afternoon, with your L2 charging stations set to charge only off peak, I would set my car timer OFF Monday through Thursday, and ON Friday, finishing at 5am. If I were parked at an L1 outlet that was on only off peak, where one off peak night might not be enough to charge my car, I would set timer1 to charge all day Thursday, and possibly Wednesday, to 80%, and set timer2 to charge ending at 100% Friday 5am.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Valet service for 4 spots in the front, with 24 hr "hot". All others "in the back" on timers to charge only at night, off peak. Charge timers need to be off in the EV. I suggested one of the 4 charge units be hot 24 hrs for day-use folks.

I wouldn't share smkettner's worry about repeatedly charging to 100%. If I were parked in your garage for a trip from Monday morning to Friday afternoon, with your L2 charging stations set to charge only off peak, I would set my car timer OFF Monday through Thursday, and ON Friday, finishing at 5am. If I were parked at an L1 outlet that was on only off peak, where one off peak night might not be enough to charge my car, I would set timer1 to charge all day Thursday, and possibly Wednesday, to 80%, and set timer2 to charge ending at 100% Friday 5am.

All good ideas. I told them that a sign should be placed at each spot to remind folks to turn off their timers, but I wouldn't know how to suggest (on a simple sign) how to do something logical like this.

The problem the car park has is getting a call from folks who get a text message saying that their car stopped charging at 5am on the first day in the lot. It's already happened.

So, the sign needs to clearly state that the power goes off at 5am, and back on at 9pm.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Status lights would help, perhaps up a pole.
Light On = Available (Power is On, but actively Charging).

Use a different (standard) color for each connection type, and have them easily visible to a vehicle driving by.

Even better, is have the lights ALSO visible by looking down a row from the end.

Then, the HUNT for an Available connection of the desired type(s) would be GREATLY facilitated.

Hopefully, every spot will have access to all available choices, however, some will be used. If there is a 14-50R, and the J1772 32 amp unit is used in another stall, you can still pull out your Panasonic EVSE and plug in for a full speed charge (with EVSEupgrade).

If each post has one J1772 - 240v/32a service, two J1772 120v/16a, two NEMA 5-15R, and one NEMA 14-50R, there are six possibilities to share over four spots. Something is going to be available, even if one thing is broken.

No one stall would need a light. If the spot is empty, there will be something there.