Best Charging Setup for Parking Garage

[TonyWilliams]

I've been asked to provide some quasi expert advice about the best setup for a large parking garage near the airport. First and foremost, what is the best value, rock solid EVSE to use?

Clipper Creek was my first thought.

Also, the actual installation that I would recommend would be something like Google has, with a NEMA 14-50 for 240v, and a normal 120v household outlet at each site.

I'm not sure how to make these compatible with Tesla. I'll meet with them on Wed.

Tony

 

[garygid]

To be innovative:

Instead of N side-by-side E-Charging spaces, use 4xN spaces, in groups of four, with one EVSE (abd one 240v 14-50 socket, and two 120v circuits on a duplex 5-15/20 socket) all mounted to serve the 4 adjacent head-in spaces of the "group".

Do not sign-post for AB475, but sign-post only ONE of the 4 spaces in most groups for "(PH)EV Only", however, in some groups, post TWO non-adjacent spaces in the group.

Put most of the Charging-space groups in somewhat less desireable parking, if possible.

 

[Herm]

ONE L3 charger in a temporary parking space near the parking attendant, outside the lot, 45 minutes max, and a whole lot of 120V sockets in the most inconvenient spaces.. plus appropriate signage.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

L3 in the cell phone waiting lots, please, pretty please!!!! I've found just about anything else to be just about useless for all the pick ups we do at the airport. I can see how L1 is good for employees and commuters, but a crying shame for the rest of us! L1 at sea-tac is $3 an hour/$35 a day, absolutely absurd. What's that, something like $1.28 a mile or roughly $38 dollars a gallon equivalent!!!!

I'm really hoping the 60+ L3's that are slated for this area get in in time for the EV project to study what a difference they will make in charging/driving habits and local EV sales... these conversations are going to be radically different once people get a taste of L3 with any consistency... and i'm saying that having only used L3 twice. I predict that it's going to be L1= emergency stranding mostly, L2= home/work charging and L3= everything else, that is if an attractive solution is worked out for the masses.

 

[Herm]

I was thinking L1 would be for overnight parking, if this lot allows it.. L2 otherwise.

 

[coqui]

Here in Charlotte NC, where parking is VERY hard to find some days, people are going to be parking in the EV spaces unless your signage is EXTREMELY explicit that ONLY electric vehicles are to park there. Also, put the charging stations in an out-of-the-way undesirable location.

L1 is practically useless, L2 I would use if picking up someone at the airport, and L3 would be best; seems most people are always in a hurry. :lol:

Pay attention to prior posts on here about what people will pay for a charge. If the fee is outrageous, then you'll get no-one using them. :shock:

 

[lpickup]

L1 is practically useless, L2 I would use if picking up someone at the airport, and L3 would be best; seems most people are always in a hurry. :lol:

For an airport setting I would think L1 would be VERY useful, at least for people that are actually travelling. Keep in mind the OP said this was for a parking garage NEAR the airport, presumably used for off-site parking. The scenario he is talking about would probably not be used for someone picking up or dropping off at the airport. Any long term (i.e. overnight) lot should have a wall of L1s and perhaps a few L2s for those on day trips, but those should specifically be limited to such. I would not be happy to see L2s taken up by a car that is just sitting there for several days.

They should certainly not charge for L1s and frankly I don't think they should be metered or anything like that anyway. Just standard 120 outlets, albeit on separate circuits to prevent overloading. It would be nice if L2s were furnished free or charge as well, but to discourage taking the spot up for multi-days, if the parking fee for those spots could be set up to kick in a higher rate for multi-days that would be great.

 

[smkettner]

Do you plan to charge for electricity? I assume not.

For long term parking (24hr+) just a whole bunch of 15 or 20 amp 120v outlet would be fine. Otherwise if you want to supply the cord I recommend Leviton 160 or Legrand available at homedepot.com for $750 to $1000. These only require a 20 amp 240v circuit. Tesla has adapters for about any outlet but they can take a lot of power if available. But again they will charge just fine at a slower rate.

I would recommend against the commercial units like Blink, Chargepoint, Clipper Creek due to cost and unneeded features. Also they need 40a 240v minimum so installation cost goes up significantly. For instance there are two charge stations at LAX requiring 80 amps. That same power could just as easily serve at least 10 or 12 regular 15a outlets. For long term we need more electric spots as charging speed is not generally a concern. The biggest wear item will be the connector to the vehicle and all units (home or commercial) seem to share the same connectors so no real advantage to the commercial units.

Although you might be able to charge a small premium for a spot with more power for people that just park a couple hours or half day.

Just my random thoughts. And I have parked at LAX for a week joining 75+ EVs and two charge spots :|

 

[kevin672]

I would recommend against the commercial units like Blink, Chargepoint, Clipper Creek due to cost and unneeded features.

But for a commercial install, these units provide perhaps the most critical feature, 3rd party maintenance. If the facility provides it's own maintenance, then installing a regular, dumb, EVSE is ideal and what I would prefer, but property managers often like the fact that somebody else handles all the maintenance with Chargepoint or Blink. The reality is that in a covered parking structure, a dumb EVSE shouldn't ever need maintenance, but people aren't always looking at it that way.

I definitely agree that if the space is designed for long term parking, lots of 120V is the best thing.

 

[davewill]

L1 sounds good for long-term parking, but I'm not particularly happy about leaving my $700 EVSE unattended for days and days, plus the rat's nest of cords that will result. Better to have low amp L2 that can be shared among multiple spaces...they could even install L1 that has J1772 connectors, but no real reason for that, I think. Personally, I would be appreciate valet service where they charge your car up for you before for your return rather than leaving the car plugged in for a week or two...I would feel more secure with that than just hoping that no one unplugs me before I get charged up. As far as the Teslas, I think it's fairly safe to assume that any Tesla owner that expects to take advantage of public charging is going to have to buy the J1772 adapter.

L3 seems unnecessary for this sort of long-term parking.

 

[smkettner]

A little off topic but.....

L1 sounds good for long-term parking, but I'm not particularly happy about leaving my $700 EVSE unattended for days and days, plus the rat's nest of cords that will result.

I lay the brick in the motor compartment. J-cord can come out the front of the hood at the small gap near the charge port. I then use a flat style extension cord out the front of the other side of the charge port. Just long enough to lay flat on the ground and go direct to the outlet. Latch the hood down and very little is exposed.

I really need to post a picture.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Interesting thoughts. Yes, this is a COMMERCIAL install, so a robust dumb charger would be choice one, with a service/maintenance contract.

Again, basically the opposite of the Blink units.

Yes, I will recommend some arrangement similar to what Gary suggests, and that Google has. I will not recommend an expensive, high demand fee L3 for a parking structure.

The valet service has merit, but that requires staff, so I don't see this as cost effective. Probably cheaper to just have the units for each stall.

I will recommend some small surcharge to use them. That way, a gas burner could park there if they wanted to pay the higher rate, and further generate revenue. I will not recommend AB475 language, and actually will recommend that they just be posted at the higher parking rate. That will eliminate the chance that a rouge police critter comes through every day issuing citations for cars "not charging". Also, if an EV uses the spot and isn't charging, they just pay the higher rate for the premium parking spot.

Which means that these spots should be front and center... The best spots.

My real issue was which L2 EVSE to recommend.

 

[surfingslovak]

My real issue was which L2 EVSE to recommend.

Tony, personally, I'd recommend Coulomb, Eaton, and Clipper Creek. In that order. Tesla provides a J1772 adapter for the Roadster and has plans to do the same for Model S. We have a row of inexpensive 120V outlets at work, which has proven to be adequate for anyone using the garage for more than couple of hours.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/36475612@N05/sets/72157628583024011/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[davewill]

... The valet service has merit, but that requires staff, so I don't see this as cost effective. Probably cheaper to just have the units for each stall. ...

I agree. It would only apply to garages that already had optional valet services.

 

[KJD]

Interesting thoughts. Yes, this is a COMMERCIAL install, so a robust dumb charger would be choice one, with a service/maintenance contract.
Again, basically the opposite of the Blink units.

As far as robust dumb charger, I think that the GE Wattstation would fit this description. The one I have in my garage has worked great with the Leaf. It is outdoor rated and the price is also reasonable (999.) for a 30 amp unit.

I have no idea what kind of service contract they would offer if any.

KJD

 

[smkettner]

Leviton 160 is a dumbell evse (s/b zero maintenance) and it comes in a very tough steel box.
Only needs 20a 240v circuit.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Leviton 160 is a dumbell evse (s/b zero maintenance) and it comes in a very tough steel box.
Only needs 20a 240v circuit.

How are these 20amp units going to play with future 6.6kW chargers? I presume no problem, but wouldn't bet money on that.

 

[davewill]

Leviton 160 is a dumbell evse (s/b zero maintenance) and it comes in a very tough steel box.
Only needs 20a 240v circuit.

How are these 20amp units going to play with future 6.6kW chargers? I presume no problem, but wouldn't bet money on that.

I would...in small amounts that I can afford to lose...with a caveat that individual failures don't count as a "problem".

Seriously, Teslas have chargers with greater capacity than most of the EVSEs out and have no problems. For that matter, our 3.3kW LEAFS have more capacity than the version 1 EVSE upgrades and there's been no problems there, either. It's not something to worry about, the standard is supposed to work this way. Sure, there's no guarantee that some future car won't have a compatibility issue with an individual EVSE brand, but that could happen with a 30a EVSE just as easily, and there's just no way to predict something like that.

 

[smkettner]

Leviton 160 is a dumbell evse (s/b zero maintenance) and it comes in a very tough steel box.
Only needs 20a 240v circuit.

How are these 20amp units going to play with future 6.6kW chargers? I presume no problem, but wouldn't bet money on that.

Leviton 160 will offer 16 amps and charge just as fast as the current 3.3kW Leaf. It will work perfectly fine with any J plug car no matter what the ultimate charge capacity is. As example I have a Revision 1 Nissan evse and it offers 12 amps and charges just fine even if a bit slower than my Schneider at the full 16 amps. This is part of the design protocall of the J plug system.

Leviton 160 has a 3 year warranty. Although your electrician may charge for and R&R and coordinating the warranty or he might include as part of the install deal.

 

[saywatt]

That would be helpful—please do!

I lay the brick in the motor compartment. J-cord can come out the front of the hood at the small gap near the charge port. I then use a flat style extension cord out the front of the other side of the charge port. Just long enough to lay flat on the ground and go direct to the outlet. Latch the hood down and very little is exposed.

I really need to post a picture.