Battery Warranty

[BrianShipman]

Finally able to RAQ as a Sept order. When I needed to confirm the order and check the box confirming that I understood all the legal items that I read, I noticed the battery info.

It essentially said that "the battery is expected to provide up to 80% of the initial capacity" after 5 years, but this is in no way guaranteed.

My question is this. How does this reconcile with the 8 year/100,000 mile warranty on the battery that was announced. If the 80% of capacity is not even guaranteed at the 5 year point, what is guaranteed at the 8 year point?

Thanks for the input.

Brian

 

[Jimmydreams]

IIRC, the warranty guarantees 80% charge capacity available after 8 years or 100000 miles. The warranty expects degradation, but not more than 20% in 8 years or 100000 miles.

 

[garygid]

Actually, we do not yet know.

We had expected something like what Jimmy described above, but the "nothing is guaranteed" type of verbage leafs us wondering what the warranty will cover ... maybe just manufacturing defects, and not "performance" at all?

 

[EVDRIVER]

Actually, we do not yet know.

We had expected something like what Jimmy described above, but the "nothing is guaranteed" type of verbage leafs us wondering what the warranty will cover ... maybe just manufacturing defects, and not "performance" at all?

This is exactly the kind of thing I was concerned about when they quickly changed the warranty form a marketing response. When will the battery warranty specifics be disclosed, when you pick up the vehicle? This could be a non-event or a real shocker and the excitement of ordering sure seemed to roll right past this somewhat expected disclosure in detail. If it only covers manufacturer defects then that is not comforting in the least or if it pro-rated. I remain sceptical on this and wonder about the many possible disclosures that may invalidate the warranty terms on pack capacity if any. This seems to be the 24 kwh Gorilla in the room IMO.

 

[BrianShipman]

I agree, thats why I asked. I have asked this question to the online chat folks periodically with no response other than "this is not decided yet and will be released closer to delivery"

It really worried me that we had to check the box acknowledging that we had read "the battery is expected to provide 80% capacity after 5 years, but this is not guaranteed" BEFORE we were allowed to order the car.

It does worry me that we have no idea what the 8year warranty will actually cover.

Brian

 

[evnow]

This is exactly the kind of thing I was concerned about when they quickly changed the warranty form a marketing response. When will the battery warranty specifics be disclosed, when you pick up the vehicle?

I think they are waiting for GM to make the first move.They don't want to come with a plan and GM beats them with a better plan ...

 

[garygid]

When Nissan releases the battery (and car) warranty info, you can always cancel, or just walk away.

 

[LEAFfan]

Finally able to RAQ as a Sept order. When I needed to confirm the order and check the box confirming that I understood all the legal items that I read, I noticed the battery info.

It essentially said that "the battery is expected to provide up to 80% of the initial capacity" after 5 years, but this is in no way guaranteed.

My question is this. How does this reconcile with the 8 year/100,000 mile warranty on the battery that was announced. If the 80% of capacity is not even guaranteed at the 5 year point, what is guaranteed at the 8 year point?

Thanks for the input.

Brian

Congratulations Brian!

 

[sdbonez]

This is exactly the kind of thing I was concerned about when they quickly changed the warranty form a marketing response. When will the battery warranty specifics be disclosed, when you pick up the vehicle?

I think they are waiting for GM to make the first move.They don't want to come with a plan and GM beats them with a better plan ...

Well, over the weekend and today, GM did much more to classify their volt as a hybrid then they did classifying it as an EV

But back to the topic at hand, this is really the one thing still preventing me from accepting delivery. Range anxiety w/a 54mile round trip on a strictly-commuter car (5 years of doing the same with my Prius) isn't an issue... battery degradation over-time, definitely...because at what point can I not account for range? Especially since the latest C&D reports show me comfortable (yes, I like my A/C..and driving more than 42mph...) with a 60mile range to start.

Maybe I can enterprise-rent-a-leaf before I order? Get a leaf loaner for a day to test my range in reality and alleviate that anxiety? I can dream, right?

 

[EVDRIVER]

I bet the warranty is going to be marketing fluff when the fine details are read and they may guarantee the pack for 80% for that term but if it is less than that they will pro-rate it so there would be a cost to replace it or something. If the warranty is only for defects, etc then it's a bit pointless as some could end up with 60% capacity. If it is pro rated they would cover 20% at a depreciated value or something like that. I find it very interesting that this is not a bigger concern and I wonder if people are under the impression a useless blanket warranty statement is gong to cover them. Auto makers are really good at writing warranties that cover their interests.

 

[garygid]

No, I believe that Nissan has not yet released any details of their battery warranty, right?

So, it might be a bit unfair to describe it as "useless" ... just yet.

Since just ONE abused, defective, sub-standard, or weak cell can cause the performance of the whole battery pack to drop to unacceptable levels, there does need to be a "reasonable" module-replacement plan, including the detection, replacement, and cost to us.

 

[xtremeflyer]

I have a feeling that even though the wording is going to benefit Nissan more than the consumer, I'm willing to place (a small) bet that in practice Nissan is going to be very generous with the warranty. Why? Because in 3-5 years when people are going to start to have problems with their battery and Nissan says "sorry, thats not covered" guess where those people will go to complain.. Yup, the internet. And 3-5 years from now, Nissan will be marketing a second generation Leaf and other EV models that they want to sell 500,000 a year of and they aren't going to want the public to hear about battery problems. By being generous with the actual implementation of the warranty, you walk away as a happy customer and the public doesn't hear about it.

 

[evnow]

I bet the warranty is going to be marketing fluff when the fine details are read and they may guarantee the pack for 80% for that term but if it is less than that they will pro-rate it so there would be a cost to replace it or something.

My guess is - they will come up with a % capacity for each year (month?) below which they will rectify the battery. Either by replacing individual cells or by replacing the pack. In either case, free of cost.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I bet the warranty is going to be marketing fluff when the fine details are read and they may guarantee the pack for 80% for that term but if it is less than that they will pro-rate it so there would be a cost to replace it or something.

My guess is - they will come up with a % capacity for each year (month?) below which they will rectify the battery. Either by replacing individual cells or by replacing the pack. In either case, free of cost.

I don't see the word "free" along side "no guarantee" of 80%. I can't wait to read the details and disclosures.

 

[garygid]

It would seem that the pack's "capacity" would usually be unknown, because most users will only use the "top" half (or other %) of their battery pack.

A test to measure the capacity would require discharging the pack from "full" until one cell "screams stop", and then recharging again to drive away.

Will Nissan perform that test on each module, or on the whole pack, before assembly into the LEAF?

 

[LakeLeaf]

Yes, lack of warranty information is quite troubling.

Until the end of this month, I'm able to get a particular new vehicle for over $9k off MSRP due to a variety of customer incentives that run out at the end of October. That's a pretty good savings and makes the vehicle quite attractive. I'd hate to give this up only to find out in December that the Leaf has an unacceptable warranty.

 

[Yodrak]

Well, you've read it haven't you? So check the box acknowledging that you've read it. That's all they're asking for.

However, if this is a deal breaker for you, stop there and don't complete the order.

Or, if you want to wait and see if the warranty will improve on the current situation do as garygid suggests - place the order and then cancel it if the warranty does not satisfy you when the details become known.

It really worried me that we had to check the box acknowledging that we had read "the battery is expected to provide 80% capacity after 5 years, but this is not guaranteed" BEFORE we were allowed to order the car.

It does worry me that we have no idea what the 8year warranty will actually cover.

 

[Nubo]

Finally able to RAQ as a Sept order. When I needed to confirm the order and check the box confirming that I understood all the legal items that I read, I noticed the battery info.

It essentially said that "the battery is expected to provide up to 80% of the initial capacity" after 5 years, but this is in no way guaranteed.

...

The most troublesome thing there is the "up to 80%", which is meaningless and couldn't form the basis of a warranty in any case. It's like a diet plan that promises that you can lose "up to 20 lbs". Well, you could gain 20 lbs and still meet that expectation. Read logically, the statement could be re-worded: "we expect the battery to probably have less than 80% of the initial capacity after 5 years...". After which, "this is in no way guaranteed" is nonsensical. Essentially, the statement taken as a whole, is gibberish.

 

[evnow]

Anyone really worried about battery warranty could lease. You can buy your next EV ...

ps : I'm always amazed at people who worry about small things and completely miss the big picture, like Peak Oil.

 

[smkettner]

I seriously doubt there will be any warranty for gradual and normal loss of capacity even if severe. I would believe the warranty will only cover premature failure of an individual cell. Replacement may well be with a used cell that matches capacity of the rest. No basis just WAG.