Australia. Leaf release this year, considering but have Q's

[Beleaf]

Hi.

I'm based in Adelaide, Australia and have been following the Leaf since it was first announced. The Leaf is expected to be released here for sale around June/July and I have placed a 'no obligation reservation' on a Silver Leaf. I like the idea of an EV from an environmental perspective, and also have an added benefit in having a 10Kw PV system on the roof which exceeds our consumption.

Unfortunately, there is no government subsidies for EV's in Australia.

As I have not even been quoted a price for the car yet, nor any information regarding specification levels of which release of the Leaf will be sold, I can't really make up my mind if I will go ahead or not. Hopefully, the dealers don't pull a high pressure sales act on me at the 11th hour, because I'm afraid I will just walk away at that point. Not interested in any of that.

Re EVSE's, Nissan Aust. has partnered with Origin Energy for a Couloumb based unit: http://www.originenergy.com.au/3886/Origin-Home-ChargePoint" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; It's a 7kW (230V / 30A) EVSE. Australia has 240v power as standard. Our home has 3 phase power, which is 418v if I remember correctly. Origin has sent me a generic quote for the above unit for AU$2750. I'm wondering why it is so expensive, and if I could get by with the standard charger included with the car (if it comes with one, I have no idea yet) Also, maybe getting the standard unit upgraded, but again, no idea if the standard unit is the same or different to the one included with the Leaf in the US.

Any info greatly appreciated!

Michael

 

[Herm]

It depends on how far you drive everyday and how fast the standard* Panasonic slow charge EVSE is.

*is it included or do they charge extra?

 

[coqui]

Beleaf,
Two comments:
(a) As far as the charger is concerned, there was a push here in the States to use AeroEnvironment chargers. But when I got a quote from them and compared that to other installations, the price offered by AE was about double. I'd shop around.
(b) With 418v available, have you looked into having your own QC? That might be a real plus if it is possible.

Leaf pricing in differing countries can vary quite a bit. Singapore residents pay quite a bit higher pricing for vehicles because of taxation.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

I am pretty sure you will get 12A 240V evse with your car which will not charge at full speed but should be good enough for start. Do not install Orgin before purchase. You always can buy Origin or else after, if you decide that car unit is not fast enough for your needs

 

[Beleaf]

Herm: We drive less than 60 miles (100km) per day. If we are going further, we have other vehicles, the Leaf will not be on its own. No idea what or if an EVSE will be included with the car, so in the dark until we get more information.

coqui: I've been looking, but not finding other EVSE's in Australia. The only other EV here is the Mitsubishi iMiev and silly prices so there are not many about. EV market here is in it's infancy. Re 418v and QC, what is a QC and do you have a link?

EdmondLeaf: That is my current thinking. I don't know if Nissan will let me do this but if I decide thats the way to go I can make it a condition. Currently, it looks like they expect everyone who buys a Leaf to fork out for an Origin EVSE. Does anyone know charge times for a 240v/12A EVSE?

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Very roughly should be twice of our US version so 10h, but if you travel 60 miles, you will be charging for 6 h (at night).

 

[Beleaf]

Nissan Aust. has updated their Leaf website: http://www.nissan.com.au/webpages/models/LEAF_model.html#/key-features/performance-and-technology" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like the car will come with a 'Level 1' portable cable that requires a 240v 15A socket.

The website says the Level 2 is a 15A 'charger' and will charge from empty to 100% in 8 hours. They also mention Level 3 which does 30 minutes to 80% charge.

EdmondLeaf: How long does the US version take to charge with the Level 1?

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Nissan Aust. has updated their Leaf website: http://www.nissan.com.au/webpages/models/LEAF_model.html#/key-features/performance-and-technology" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like the car will come with a 'Level 1' portable cable that requires a 240v 15A socket.

The website says the Level 2 is a 15A 'charger' and will charge from empty to 100% in 8 hours. They also mention Level 3 which does 30 minutes to 80% charge.

EdmondLeaf: How long does the US version take to charge with the Level 1?

L1 12A, 15A socket requires because continuous load should be at 80% for safety
L2 15A will require 19 - 20A socket
20 h or charging to full 120 V 12 A

 

[TomT]

If you are considering a 2012, the home EVSE that you mentioned will charge at very close to the same rate as the Panasonic they provide with the car. Thus, I'd likely not even bother with a home EVSE at those prices... Assuming that the 2014 there gets a 6.6 charger, then it MIGHT be worth it since the home EVSE would charge about twice as fast...

 

[Beleaf]

Thanks for the info. I will try and get verified charge times from Nissan for the 240v L1 charger. If it will charge from empty to full in 10 hours, then I truly doubt we will ever need a L2. If our use changes we could add it later.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

As Tom said no much sense at this time go get L2

 

[Beleaf]

If you are considering a 2012, the home EVSE that you mentioned will charge at very close to the same rate as the Panasonic they provide with the car. Thus, I'd likely not even bother with a home EVSE at those prices... Assuming that the 2014 there gets a 6.6 charger, then it MIGHT be worth it since the home EVSE would charge about twice as fast...

The website says the Level 2 is a 15A 'charger' and will charge from empty to 100% in 8 hours.

Tom. I think the Nissan website is in error. Origin says the L2 is a 30A charger, so I think it should in fact charge faster than the L1?

Even so, if L1 will get a 60 mile charge back into the car overnight, who needs a L2 anyway.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Charger in current car is 3.3 kWh so it does not matter that evse is capable of 7kWh. Charger in the car is limiting factor, upgrade of charger is expected to 6.6 kWh but exact date is unknown.
12 * 240 = 2.88 kWh so you nearly there or loosing only a small bit to 3.3 kWh

 

[Beleaf]

Charger in current car is 3.3 kWh so it does not matter that evse is capable of 7kWh. Charger in the car is limiting factor, upgrade of charger is expected to 6.6 kWh but exact date is unknown.
12 * 240 = 2.88 kWh so you nearly there or loosing only a small bit to 3.3 kWh

Aha.

So the car is capable of a max amps of 13.75 through the L1/L2 charge port. Why are these people trying to flog a 30A EVSE to us?

 

[EdmondLeaf]

It make more sense here because we are at half what you have on L1 1.44 vs 2.88 kWh. Simple answer is Origin like to get your money and make nice profit. With your driving range you fine where you are now.
Question why Pulsar = Altima in US?

 

[Beleaf]

Question why Pulsar = Altima in US?

Marketing. They probably ran a bunch of surveys and focus groups that told them Pulsar would sell in Australia and Altima in the US. Or perhaps the trademark was already taken either way so they had to think up a new name for the car...

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Hope you q's answered report back with your Leaf picture. Altima was Stanza before here so you newer know. Pulsar is was sport car before in I am correct

 

[dgpcolorado]

Charger in current car is 3.3 kWh so it does not matter that evse is capable of 7kWh. Charger in the car is limiting factor, upgrade of charger is expected to 6.6 kWh but exact date is unknown.
12 * 240 = 2.88 kWh so you nearly there or loosing only a small bit to 3.3 kWh

Aha.

So the car is capable of a max amps of 13.75 through the L1/L2 charge port. Why are these people trying to flog a 30A EVSE to us?

The current LEAF is limited to 16 Amps through the L1/L2 charge port. The 2013 model is expected to have a 30 or 32 Amp charger, perhaps as an option. To be fair, having a 30 Amp EVSE would help you handle future EVs with faster chargers. But, as others have said, the EVSE supplied with the car will be plenty fast for overnight charging for your expected driving. The Level 1 EVSEs here in USA/Canada are only half as fast because we have only 120 Volt household power. Big difference.

One question, do your 240 V outlets have 15 Amp breakers or 20 Amp breakers? If the former you would get 12 A x 240 V = 2.88 kW charging. If the latter you would likely get 15 A x 240 V = 3.6 kW charging (but it is only ~85% efficient, so the charge to the battery is lower). Depends on how the supplied Panasonic EVSE is regulated though. The folks in Europe would know more about that since I believe they have 240 V Panasonic EVSEs supplied with their cars.

 

[TomT]

The Home EVSE may be capable of supplying charging at 30 amps but the car is still the limiting factor. With a 3.3Kw charger in the car, it will only charge that fast (roughly 15 amps) regardless of the EVSE being capable of supplying more. With a 6.6Kw charger, it would be roughly 30 amps if the EVSE can supply that much. But yes, regardless, for home charging it makes no real difference and I'd be inclined to stay with the Panasonic. With the 240 volt Panasonic EVSE, I'd think of it more as L2 Light than L1...

If you are considering a 2012, the home EVSE that you mentioned will charge at very close to the same rate as the Panasonic they provide with the car. Thus, I'd likely not even bother with a home EVSE at those prices... Assuming that the 2014 there gets a 6.6 charger, then it MIGHT be worth it since the home EVSE would charge about twice as fast...

The website says the Level 2 is a 15A 'charger' and will charge from empty to 100% in 8 hours.

Tom. I think the Nissan website is in error. Origin says the L2 is a 30A charger, so I think it should in fact charge faster than the L1?
Even so, if L1 will get a 60 mile charge back into the car overnight, who needs a L2 anyway.

 

[davewill]

Aha.

So the car is capable of a max amps of 13.75 through the L1/L2 charge port. Why are these people trying to flog a 30A EVSE to us?

3.3kW is the output of the charger, the LEAF's max draw from the wall is higher, 16a @ 240v. Double check the capacity of the provided EVSE. In the UK, they are 230v 10a.