Amended Settlement in Klee v. Nissan

[braineo]

$50 or a 3 months free to charge is a ridiculous slap in the face for those of us who has lost 30% of driving range and two almost three bars within our first two years of ownership. I would re-opt for this class action if I could get a full replacement of the defective battery now and not have to wait for 2-3 years more for the warranty to kick in.

I tried to turn my Leaf in but I had to finance $10k underwater loan due to the tremendous loss of value of my 2011 SL.

Guess where Nissan now ranks for ANY future vehicle purchase in my immediate family and to whomever I contact in the future?

 

[mwalsh]

What if I prefer $50 worth of beer over 3 months of free charging? Personally, I will make every effort to make myself and my family to be free of Nissan products in the future because of how they handled this battery debacle.

I'd rather have beer too. Charging away from home...I have a choice. Drinking beer...that's going to happen no matter what! :lol:

 

[Valdemar]

What if I prefer $50 worth of beer over 3 months of free charging? Personally, I will make every effort to make myself and my family to be free of Nissan products in the future because of how they handled this battery debacle.

I'd rather have beer too. Charging away from home...I have a choice. Drinking beer...that's going to happen no matter what! :lol:

I'm sure there is a good number of people who are on the $15/mo eVgo monthly plan and are relying on quick charging on daily basis, I think there is a $30 penalty for stopping the contract. I'd be surprised if they didn't choose beer too

 

[edatoakrun]

Would oakwcj or a moderator please update the OP with these documents?

Updated settlement page:

http://www.nissanleafsettlement.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Updated (legal) settlement agreement:

http://www.nissanleafsettlement.com/Documents/NNK0001/2015%2003-06%20Amendment%20to%20Settlement%20Agreement%20-%20Fully%20Executed.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Opt-in notice:

http://www.nissanleafsettlement.com/Documents/NNK0001/NNK_NOT_consent.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Opt-in form:

http://www.nissanleafsettlement.com/Documents/NNK0001/NNK_CTJ_web.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I got the opt-in letter, so I finally know Nissan accepted my opt-out letter last year.

I'm still at 11 capacity bars, but with ~24% LBC reported capacity loss (and probably between 11% and 15% actual loss of average available capacity since delivery) at ~34k miles and ~46 months.

So, if I opt back in, I expect there is a pretty good chance I also can come close to winning the free battery lottery, especially if I change my driving/charging behavior from trying to maintain actual capacity, to trying to reduce the LBC reported capacity.

But then I'd be deprived of the experience of suing Nissan for myself...

 

[braineo]

Maybe we need to start getting legal advice to sue not only for the battery but for range anxiety due to the defective battery. Maybe I can then pay cash for my Tesla. Perfect Karma.

 

[smkettner]

I am down two bars at 34K miles and 4 years & 2 months of ownership, so unfortunately I'm not expecting to lose another 2 bars within the next 10 months to qualify for the battery warranty replacement....

Need to find a way to visit Palm Springs a few times this Summer
Actually I doubt you need to go that far.

 

[Valdemar]

I am down two bars at 34K miles and 4 years & 2 months of ownership, so unfortunately I'm not expecting to lose another 2 bars within the next 10 months to qualify for the battery warranty replacement....

Need to find a way to visit Palm Springs a few times this Summer
Actually I doubt you need to go that far.

You don't need to go anywhere at all, a $50 green house and a space heater will do the job.

 

[EricBayArea]

I just got this letter in the mail because I opted out... not really knowing why in the first place. I have a '11 with 27k at 3.5yrs. I think I'm going to be losing my 2nd CB shortly.

I really don't have the time to file against Nissan in small claims court and obtain necessary proof in order to what, get a few thousand dollars? I would think that a reasonable amount would be prorated from the 5yr/80k mi statement. And at 4 or 5 years old one can argue that prorated is $1k or $2k.

If I knew that another class suit was brewing wherein the plaintiffs were seeking something larger then I might opt out again... but honestly, maybe i'll just park my car outside all summer and charge to 100% daily and try and shoot the moon. Icing would be using the EZ charge card to QC as much as possible during the summer months

[/rant]

 

[edatoakrun]

I'm close to deciding to stay out of the settlement.

As I posted previously, I believe it would probably be fairly easy to accelerate my LBC-reported capacity loss enough to lose four capacity bars by 60 months, as it now looks like I'll be there by ~66 months, at my previous LBC-reported capacity loss rate.

But I really have no desire to make this effort, and would much rather continue to use my pack the way I have since delivery, as efficiently as possible, consistent with my driving needs.

While Nissan's offer of a free battery replacement is very tempting, what I'd prefer is a battery replacement with significantly greater kWh capacity, and be able to retain the option to keep my OE pack for other uses.

I expect Nissan has already determined whether a higher kWh next-generation pack will be compatible with the 2011-15 LEAFs, but has its own reasons for not telling us.

IMO, Nissan's present policy of requiring a trade in pack for any replacement, will probably not survive legal challenges.

There is also some possibility another party will offer me one or more of these options with a replacement pack, by the time I really want one (when I only have ~80% of the range my LEAF had on delivery, and I can no longer a reliably make ~55 low-speed miles, starting/ending with a ~2000 ft. total descent/ascent, in ~0 C ambient temperatures) which now looks likely to be two or three Winters in the future.

 

[Deleted member 770]

IMO, Nissan's present policy of requiring a trade in pack for any replacement, will probably not survive legal challenges.

While you may well be correct about this, I suspect that Nissan would just say "the replacement pack is $6,500 with trade-in or $13,000 without". No legal issues, they're just saying that you old battery is worth more than $1,000, which I think we all know is the case.

Personally, I've always been of the opinion that Nissan is probably selling the replacement packs at a loss, but that the old packs are worth something like $6-8,000 to them. That way if they require a trade-in, they can sell the replacement pack for $6,500 even though it might cost them $12,000, and still make a profit.

There is also some possibility another party will offer me one or more of these options with a replacement pack, by the time I really want one (when I only have ~80% of the range my LEAF had on delivery, and I can no longer a reliably make ~55 low-speed miles, starting/ending with a ~2000 ft. total descent/ascent, in ~0 C ambient temperatures) which now looks likely to be two or three Winters in the future.

I used to be hopeful that a 3rd-party would make an aftermarket pack, but considering that no one has yet done so (or even announced plans to do so), I suspect the technical (or legal) hurdles are just too high. I hope that one day I'm proven wrong...

 

[TomT]

I think that the financial hurdles and the ROI are the big limiting factors.

I used to be hopeful that a 3rd-party would make an aftermarket pack, but considering that no one has yet done so (or even announced plans to do so), I suspect the technical (or legal) hurdles are just too high. I hope that one day I'm proven wrong...

 

[davewill]

I think that the financial hurdles and the ROI are the big limiting factors.

I used to be hopeful that a 3rd-party would make an aftermarket pack, but considering that no one has yet done so (or even announced plans to do so), I suspect the technical (or legal) hurdles are just too high. I hope that one day I'm proven wrong...

I've come to the conclusion that it just won't happen as long as decent production EVs are available. If the supply dried up, it would make more sense to find ways to keep these old LEAFs on the road, but with the promise of 200 mile cars in 30K price range, who would go the hassle of developing a bigger pack for these older LEAFs?

 

[edatoakrun]

I think that the financial hurdles and the ROI are the big limiting factors.

I used to be hopeful that a 3rd-party would make an aftermarket pack, but considering that no one has yet done so...

I've come to the conclusion that it just won't happen as long as decent production EVs are available...

There is presently no market for replacement batteries, since Nissan has given almost every LEAF owner worldwide who needs one (due either to a pack defect or four capacity bars of real or perceived degradation) a new replacement pack at no charge.

The only exception are the few packs out of warrantee due to having over 60k miles, and AFAIK, all owners of these LEAFs (such as TaylorSF with what, ~130k miles?) still find their OE packs to have useful capacity and range, resulting in the fact that no LEAF owner out of ~175,000 worldwide has bought a replacement for their OE pack (again, AFAIK, though a few have said they intend to buy one) to date.

I would not expect replacement packs to enter the market from other sources (if they ever do) until there are a substantial number of potential buyers, a development Nissan has effectively blocked, so far.

 

[walterbays]

There is presently no market for replacement batteries, since Nissan has given almost every LEAF owner worldwide who needs one (due either to a pack defect or four capacity bars of real or perceived degradation) a new replacement pack at no charge.

That's true only if you accept Nissan's definition of the word needs which excludes the great majority of 2011/12 owners including many who now have trouble with their daily commute, but have virtually no chance of meeting the extreme degradation needed to trigger a warranty replacement.

Consider a little regional road trip that would be fine for a new Leaf. I'd need to stop to recharge every 40-50 miles, which might be acceptable except that every stop is another single point of failure. If you need to recharge 4 times what are the chances that at NONE of those stops is the QC broken? Nor ICED? Nor occupied by another EV charging? Nor finished charging with the owner absent? Nor the card reader broken? How long do you wait, hoping someone will move the car blocking the charger, before limping to the next QC and hoping it works? So I'll drive the gas car. :-(

Having the option to buy a new battery is great, but it comes down to a question of cost. It may yet turn out to be the best way to renew my 4 year old car for another 4+ years of life. Or the money might better be spent soon, moving to a Volt which would give the same 40-50 miles of electric range and negligible battery degradation. Or it might better be spent later, moving to a new 200 mile EV, Chevy, Tesla, Ford, or Nissan.

Without a genuine pro rata battery warranty bearing some relation to marketing claims I must assume worst case, that the new batteries will hold up no better than the old ones, and that makes the money seem better spent towards a new car than to renew the old car.

 

[keydiver]

I received the letter last week, and opted back in. I'm <75% now at 34,000 miles, so I fully expect to be able to get a new battery. All I have to do is endure another summer with an ever-degrading battery.
I have had to change to charging 100% all the time now out of necessity, which should speed things up. :twisted:

 

[dhanson865]

There is also some possibility another party will offer me one or more of these options with a replacement pack, by the time I really want one (when I only have ~80% of the range my LEAF had on delivery, and I can no longer a reliably make ~55 low-speed miles, starting/ending with a ~2000 ft. total descent/ascent, in ~0 C ambient temperatures) which now looks likely to be two or three Winters in the future.

I used to be hopeful that a 3rd-party would make an aftermarket pack, but considering that no one has yet done so (or even announced plans to do so), I suspect the technical (or legal) hurdles are just too high. I hope that one day I'm proven wrong...

I think you won't see higher capacity aftermarket packs until Tesla's gigafactory is producing more batteries than they can build cars. They'll be selling packs through SolarCity as well so the gigafactory would have to be ramped up higher than both Tesla and SolarCity need. Once there is surplus capacity for more than a month or two Tesla and their competition would be either looking to make a pack they could sell to 200,000 or so "first gen" Leaf owners.

It's possible that no big name ever makes this move and someone (individual, coop, or small company) has to buy from Tesla and make the packs. Of course by then you might not care as you may have already sold your Leaf and moved on.

Will it be 2018, 2020, or later? I expect there will come a day when you can buy an upgrade battery pack for a gen 1 Leaf but it might be the shady equivalent of buying used tires from the shop in the bad part of town if some big player doesn't do it.

 

[Reddy]

I just got this letter in the mail because I opted out... not really knowing why in the first place. I have a '11 with 27k at 3.5yrs. I think I'm going to be losing my 2nd CB shortly.

I really don't have the time to file against Nissan in small claims court and obtain necessary proof in order to what, get a few thousand dollars? I would think that a reasonable amount would be prorated from the 5yr/80k mi statement. And at 4 or 5 years old one can argue that prorated is $1k or $2k.

If I knew that another class suit was brewing wherein the plaintiffs were seeking something larger then I might opt out again... but honestly, maybe i'll just park my car outside all summer and charge to 100% daily and try and shoot the moon. Icing would be using the EZ charge card to QC as much as possible during the summer months

I'm close to deciding to stay out of the settlement.

As I posted previously, I believe it would probably be fairly easy to accelerate my LBC-reported capacity loss enough to lose four capacity bars by 60 months, as it now looks like I'll be there by ~66 months, at my previous LBC-reported capacity loss rate.

But I really have no desire to make this effort, and would much rather continue to use my pack the way I have since delivery, as efficiently as possible, consistent with my driving needs.

While Nissan's offer of a free battery replacement is very tempting, what I'd prefer is a battery replacement with significantly greater kWh capacity......

I received the letter last week and I'm having similar thoughts as above. I'm currently around 55 AHrs and 25,000 mi. Although I only recently started graphing my data, if the linear decay continues as others have reported, I expect to lose my 3rd bar around 8/18/2016, my 5 yr anniversary. Yes, at this point I'm a bit disappointed that the degradation hasn't been fast enough to receive the new battery. Because of this, I don't plan to opt back in to the "settlement" for a measly $50. Yes, Nissan was clearly negligent in rushing this battery chemistry to market (probably pushed by GM's plan to release the Volt in 2010, faster than they anticipated). All data seems to be pointing to better battery chemistry in the 2013+ models, so there may be cause for another lawsuit with better results for those of us who don't meet the 4-bar loser criteria. Similar to EricBayArea, I don't really have an interest in pursuing such a lawsuit for a few thousand either. It's just too much hassle, which is probably the outcome that Nissan wants.

Since the car will still meet my in-town needs until at least 2020 (I was hoping until 2030 or so), I plan on holding out for a higher capacity battery replacement, perhaps even 48 KWh. It may not happen, but at least I can hope. In any case, I will re-evaluate the EV offerings in a few years and purchase used, after seeing what products last for at least 3 yrs. If I had to make the decision today, I would probably switch to Tesla, primarily for the supercharging ability. Even in the great NW, with our exceptional charging infrastructure, charging away from home can be frustrating. I have cards from AV, Blink, and ChargePoint. But now I see stations popping up from SemaConnect, OptConnect, EVGo, etc. HOW MANY &*###@# SYSTEMS DO WE HAVE TO SUBSCRIBE TO??????? Tesla has it right, super fast, well located, and free (well, paid for by the car purchase).

 

[TomT]

I am one of those owners with only relatively moderate mileage on the car and who found the car to no longer have the range that I needed due to significant degradation. I would not have been covered under the warranty due to hitting 60K at about month 54 or so... I believe that there are more than just a "few" of us in this camp...

The only exception are the few packs out of warrantee due to having over 60k miles, and AFAIK, all owners of these LEAFs (such as TaylorSF with what, ~130k miles?) still find their OE packs to have useful capacity and range, resulting in the fact that no LEAF owner out of ~175,000 worldwide has bought a replacement for their OE pack (again, AFAIK, though a few have said they intend to buy one) to date.

 

[TomT]

+1

There is presently no market for replacement batteries, since Nissan has given almost every LEAF owner worldwide who needs one (due either to a pack defect or four capacity bars of real or perceived degradation) a new replacement pack at no charge.

That's true only if you accept Nissan's definition of the word needs which excludes the great majority of 2011/12 owners including many who now have trouble with their daily commute, but have virtually no chance of meeting the extreme degradation needed to trigger a warranty replacement.

 

[mwalsh]

Be sure to mail those opt-ins certified with a return receipt or delivery confirmation!

Unless the web method gives adequate confirmation of submission?

Trust no-one!