A Thought Experiment : Sacramento to Reno in a 2011 LEAF

[LEAFer]

Full Title: "A Thought Experiment : Sacramento to Reno in a 2011 LEAF in Winter"

Having been prompted via PM by a fellow MNL'er ... I undertook a quick & dirty (but fun) activity

Route

Profile ( The stops are public L2 EVSEs. )

The tough part is the almost 50 miles up the hill between Colfax & Truckee. The solution might be to get off I-80 as much as possible to allow for slower going.

Route

Profile

 

[GRA]

Full Title: "A Thought Experiment : Sacramento to Reno in a 2011 LEAF in Winter"

Having been prompted via PM by a fellow MNL'er ... I undertook a quick & dirty (but fun) activity

Route

Profile ( The stops are public L2 EVSEs. )

The tough part is the almost 50 miles up the hill between Colfax & Truckee. The solution might be to get off I-80 as much as possible to allow for slower going.

Route

Profile

Two possible problems:

1. The frontage roads are often impassable in winter. For example, Donner Pass Rd. (Old U.S. 40) is definitely closed in winter from east of Norden down to the Lake. And the section from Cisco east to Soda Springs exit may also be closed due to snow.

2. Last I checked, the L2 in Truckee at the Historical Society was down per Recargo.

Having done this trip multiple times as a thought experiment without snow, I have my doubts that you could make the Colfax-Truckee leg in winter in a Leaf, especially if you had to take I-80. There needs to be an EVSE in Cisco or at worst Soda Springs to make this trip reasonably feasible.

 

[willk55]

I make this trip all the time in my ICE. Maybe when EV's are more common some Reno casinos could sponsor some charging stations along the way.

 

[abasile]

I agree that the Colfax to Truckee leg would be dicey. We routinely do a 42 mile drive (one way) with ~4500' of elevation gain in our 2011 LEAF. Starting with a full charge, we reach home after the low battery warning, and that's with very careful driving, using lots of turnouts on the way up "our" mountain.

That said, it might be worth a try if you're up for the adventure (I would be). If you run short on charge you can always turn around and go downhill! Better yet, find an additional place to charge, even on L1. With the driving and charging prior to leaving Colfax, your battery temperature shouldn't be too low.

 

[GRA]

I make this trip all the time in my ICE. Maybe when EV's are more common some Reno casinos could sponsor some charging stations along the way.

Considering the numbers of Indian Casinos along the way, do many people still go to Reno to gamble? The inside of one Casino looks pretty much like another.

 

[LEAFer]

I've driven the I-80 route plenty of times, but not in a limited range BEV. When first thinking of it I had not even realized it's 50 miles from the Colfax L2 to the L2 at Truckee. Trouble is, it's a pretty rugged and sparsely populated route; meaning there are not many places to plug in when you need it most -- unless I am missing something ... I'd be grateful for more knowledgeable and experienced drivers' hints. And I have no experience with the frontage roads either. This corridor is one of those "let's just get there" types.

The suggestion to turn-around and go back (regen) downhill is risky due to the distances (sparsely populated) issue.

Casinos ? Where ? (Colfax to Truckee ?)

Using 1.3kWh/1,000 feet (see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=10104&p=233619&hilit=+per+1%2C000+feet+#p233619" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false estimate, here's a back-of-the-envelope calc:

Assume conservatively degraded battery with 18kWh available. Subtract 1.3*5 (2,300 to 7,300 feet) leaves 11.5kWh. Round up (the 1.3 is conservative too) = 12kWh for 50 miles.

Or 4.2 miles/kWh efficiency needed.

Hmmm ... doable without heater use at 50mph leaving a little reserve. :shock: Let's do it !! :|

 

[abasile]

The suggestion to turn-around and go back (regen) downhill is risky due to the distances (sparsely populated) issue.

Well, don't wait until you're almost at turtle to turn around! :lol:

 

[willk55]

I make this trip all the time in my ICE. Maybe when EV's are more common some Reno casinos could sponsor some charging stations along the way.

Considering the numbers of Indian Casinos along the way, do many people still go to Reno to gamble? The inside of one Casino looks pretty much like another.

Sadly they do not. But there is more to see in and around Reno than just gambling. If you do gamble, your odds of winning on slot machines are much better in Reno than in a Indian casino. Not to mention all the freebies you get from Reno casinos. Putting in charge stations along the way would be a good way of getting more affluent patrons into the casinos.

 

[palmermd]

ok, it looks like we are going to have to find an RV campground to get some juice. I found two near the highway at Soda Springs and Emigrant Gap.

http://goo.gl/maps/XcYVi" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.rvonthego.com/Snowflower-Sierra-Mountains-profile.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.ciscogrove.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Both of these indicate 30 amp electrical service is available.

 

[LEAFer]

Both of these indicate 30 amp electrical service is available.

So that's 120V, meaning 12A maximum for the LEAF. Unless we go with a "Quick220" type setup.

Would need to call ahead to make sure they are operating in the winter. Also ... need to check with Cal-Trans to make sure the side roads (if that's the prefered route) are cleared of snow and passable. Having said that ... I now realized that the possibly less well maintained side roads may incur a snow/resistance penalty even though they allow much slower speed, when compared to a well maintained Interstate ...

The Cisco Grove RV seems like a good location ... it's near point G on the map ( around 32 miles from Colfax and about 5,700 feet (3,400' above Colfax) ). Depending on how efficiency keeps up, can decide on a relatively short boost there ...

 

[palmermd]

So this buyer wants to take my Leaf from Sacramento to Reno in January. My first thought was that it would be doable at 50-55mph on I80, but after looking at the data with Leafer, it looks like it will be difficult. His numbers confirm my original suspicion of needing to stay at a very low speed to do it mostly because of the distance from Auburn or Colfax to Truckee. I suggested that the person drive from Sacramento to Auburn and spend the night while getting a full charge before departing for Truckee and then charging again before continuing to Reno. After this review it looks like he will have to stay in Colfax and not Auburn, and he is still going to have a hard time making it to Truckee. No other "real" hotel/motel's beyond Colfax. There are some cabins and such and perhaps the buyer can start making some calls to see who might have power for an overnight stay. Get as much charge as he can at the Colfax Amtrak station and then drive up to the motel to top off at 120v overnight.

The other option would be to find a way to take highway 50 to Lake Tahoe and work out a route that way. There seems to be more little hotels on that route even though it is longer. Might be safer.

Either way this seems like a long cold drive.

 

[Randy3]

The best I've done is from Yosemite Valley (about 4,000 feet) to Tuolumne Meadows Campground (about 8,600 feet) last September. That's a 55 mile drive. I took it in good weather and started with a full battery. I was on Very Low Battery and showing the "---" when I pulled into the campground. Even if the roads were open, I would not try that drive in the winter.

This type of drive would be much more enjoyable with the MY2013 6.6 (or is it 6.0) charger in the LEAF, and of course the upgraded EVSE so you could use the RV parks.

 

[Electric4Me]

Call gas/service stations along the route and see if they have 240V plugs. I've used a service station with a welder plug (NEMA 6-50) in a remote area before (Hwy 1, Fort Bragg area). Gave the owner $10 for my $2 of E-juice...and hung out for 6 hours.

 

[LakeLeaf]

You certainly don't need a 220v outlet if the drive is "close to doable" as you don't need to get a full recharge, do you?

You do have Boreal ski resort along the route. They have a few out buildings, including the Auburn Ski Club huts at the end of the parking lot. Likely to be an outlet there, certainly one inside you could run a long power cord to. Take the nordic skis and spend a couple of hours out on the trails there while you top up. Too bad this wasn't posted a couple of weeks ago - I was up there and could have scouted for you.

p.s. AFAIK still no public EVSE in South Lake

 

[Christopher]

You certainly don't need a 220v outlet if the drive is "close to doable" as you don't need to get a full recharge, do you?

You do have Boreal ski resort along the route. They have a few out buildings, including the Auburn Ski Club huts at the end of the parking lot. Likely to be an outlet there, certainly one inside you could run a long power cord to. Take the nordic skis and spend a couple of hours out on the trails there while you top up. Too bad this wasn't posted a couple of weeks ago - I was up there and could have scouted for you.

p.s. AFAIK still no public EVSE in South Lake

If you can get to Boreal (Donner Summit), you've made Truckee – it's long steep downhill from there.

 

[davewill]

You certainly don't need a 220v outlet if the drive is "close to doable" as you don't need to get a full recharge, do you? ...

Depends on your definition of "need". For instance, let's say you're 10 miles short of having enough charge to get there. On 240v, you will need a little less than an hour to pick up those ten miles. On 120v, you'll need 2.5 hours. I know which I'd rather do.

 

[Electric4Me]

This story reminds me of a book I have on the shelf, called "Solo", by Noel Perrin.
In this (true) story, Noel tells of how he tried to cross the Sierras in his newly purchased EV with a 40 mile range. He didn't make it over...
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/320589.Solo

In the spring of 1991, Noel Perrin flew from Vermont to California to pick up his newly outfitted electric car, a former gas-guzzling Ford. It would not be easy, but Perrin planned to drive Solo--as the car was soon dubbed--home, a 3,100-mile drive. Here is the picturesque story of the trip--from Solo's struggle with gravity at Donner Pass to an encounter with a man with four electric cars in Rotterdam, New York.

Sadly, Noel didn't live long enough to see the return of the mass produced electric car.

 

[edatoakrun]

So no one has driven their LEAF over Donner summit yet?

What is wrong with you folks?

Driving over the highest-pass-within-a-hundred-miles should be at the top of each new LEAFer's "bucket list", IMO...

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:54 am

So, I drove the Leaf to Lassen Park on Sunday.

Still quite a lot of snow at 8,500 ft. The trail to the Peak was partially closed. It's only open intermittently while being reconstructed. I took a very nice hike to Echo lake, instead...

My trip from my home (near Oak Run, 2,000 ft altitude)... 144.4 miles round trip, about 11,000 ft. total and 6500 ft. net ascent and descent...

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5022" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[walterbays]

I make this trip all the time in my ICE. Maybe when EV's are more common some Reno casinos could sponsor some charging stations along the way.

That brings up another thought experiment: what is QC worth to you?

The NRG settlement sets (or will eventually set) a price of $7. Some have talked of a QC price of $20. Suppose there were a QC station at the Blue Canyon-Nyack Airport that charged $20. A typical 20% to 80% charge would cost $1.60 per kWh or, figured at a Chevy Volt's 40 MPG, an equivalent of buying gasoline for $16 per gallon. That's for those miles powered by the QC; miles powered by your own electricity would be the same low cost as usual. If that QC made it possible for you to make the trip in your Leaf instead of your other car, would it be worth it to you?

Next, would it be worth it to you if the QC fee was $30 but it gave you a code you could redeem at a Reno casino for $30 worth of chips?

 

[Nubo]

I make this trip all the time in my ICE. Maybe when EV's are more common some Reno casinos could sponsor some charging stations along the way.

That brings up another thought experiment: what is QC worth to you?

The NRG settlement sets (or will eventually set) a price of $7. Some have talked of a QC price of $20. Suppose there were a QC station at the Blue Canyon-Nyack Airport that charged $20. A typical 20% to 80% charge would cost $1.60 per kWh or, figured at a Chevy Volt's 40 MPG, an equivalent of buying gasoline for $16 per gallon. That's for those miles powered by the QC; miles powered by your own electricity would be the same low cost as usual. If that QC made it possible for you to make the trip in your Leaf instead of your other car, would it be worth it to you?

No. I'm not going to pay $20 to charge a LEAF, EVER. $7 for a LEAF reasonable. $10 is exorbitant but I might pay it to enable a trip.

Next, would it be worth it to you if the QC fee was $30 but it gave you a code you could redeem at a Reno casino for $30 worth of chips?

No. I hate "bundling" with the heat of the Sun.