240V EV-ChargeAmerica EVSE - (likely scam buyer beware)

[garygid]

I think (not sure) that the NEC 625 allows a maximum of 18 inches (presumably wire length) from the EVSE to the wall plug.

 

[LakeLeaf]

2. Or, is this L2 EVSE "listed" for hard-wired use only? -- Per above. At least, for right now, the national electrical code (NEC) rules and regulations states that it is against the law, and most local fire codes, to have a detachable cord (an extension cord) for fast charging, 240 volt service. That is why it is necessary to have a 240 volt outlet to plug the Charge@Home unit into, or you can wire the unit directly to the service if you don't think you'll be moving it later.

From the discussions on the board, I thought the electric code required the EVSE to be hard-wired into the house and that this is what AV was then doing for all of their installs. From the response it sounds like they believe the code is that the wire from the 240V EVSE to the J1772 connector (the equivalent of the gas pump hose) must be hardwired into the EVSE, but that the EVSE itself can plug into an outlet (e.g. an existing dryer outlet), or am I reading this response wrong.

Whether you buy this, the Leviton, or the AV - if you are going to install yourself, I don't see anything preventing you from wiring it so that you can just plug the EVSE into the wall, and thus unplug the EVSE and take it with you when you desire.

ETA. Sorry - just read through the very long EVSE Install thread and see this has been asked and answered there.

 

[garygid]

Some L2 EVSEs might be UL "listed" for hard-wire only (possibly AV's L2 EVSE).

Others, like the upcomimg Leviton and this EV2104, are apperently UL listed for plug-in use.

Usually the 15 to 25-foot e-hose (from the EVSE to the J1772 plug at the car end) appears "hardwired", but it will usually sepatate from the EVSE if the e-hose is pulled hard enough - a "strain-relief" feature.

The 18-inch "pigtail" from the EVSE to the plug (for a mating wall socket) is for plug-in "mounting" of the EVSE.

Then, the EVSE could be unplugged to be moved to another location.

 

[dpodoll]

Anyone actually buy one yet? I am trying (using e-mail because phone calls are hard from Afghanistan). Not getting replies from my e-mails. Sent them a cedt card and mailing address...but nothing heard

 

[garygid]

Did somebody say that they had called and ordered one with a CC?

What was the shipping cost?

 

[smkettner]

The Leviton pdf talks about being integrated with the electric meter to enable TOU billing and I do not see that with EV-ChargeAmerica. Although I like the look of EV-ChargeAmerica better than the square box of the Leviton. I was starting to get excited to buy one and be ready but I may wait and check with what the electric company prefers. Until the Leviton is available and has a price my decision is on hold.

 

[LEAFer]

The Leviton pdf talks about being integrated with the electric meter to enable TOU billing and I do not see that with EV-ChargeAmerica. Although I like the look of EV-ChargeAmerica better than the square box of the Leviton. I was starting to get excited to buy one and be ready but I may wait and check with what the electric company prefers.

Whether the EVSE's internal meter will pass muster with the Utility Company is entirely up to the Utility Company. From what I have heard so far ... not very likely without extensive testing administered by the Utility (which is also unlikely due to the many vendors).

Until the Leviton is available and has a price my decision is on hold.

Me too.

 

[garygid]

Has anybody called and talked to these people about their EV2104 L2 EVSE?

 

[garygid]

I just called their number (702) 696-1600 and left a message.

Note, the Mounting Kit is .. a wall-mounted mounting plate.

I also just emailed again, with the following additional Questions

------------------
Dwight,
Thanks for the answers.
<snip>

Please email the "sheet" you apparently have on the EV2104.

And, on your EV2104, these additional Questions, please:

1. What type of 240v plug is on the AC-input pigtail?
(6-40P, 15-50P, ... ?)

2. What is the length of the AC-input pigtail?
(18 inches ?)

3. Where does the pigtail exit the box?
(at the bottom, near the right side?)

4. Will the EV2104 support two (or more) RFIDs?
(to more easily support two, or more, users)

5. What is the maximum number of RFIDs that the EV2104
will support at one time?
(tens, or hundreds?)

6. Assuming I cannot use a 40-amp breaker, and MUST use a 20-amp breaker,
can I change the EV2104's "Max Current" setting to 16 amps instead of 32 amps?
(from 32 amps to 12, to 16, and to 24 amps?)

Note: the LEAF only uses 15 (maybe 16) amps anyway.

7. You said that the mounting kit is a wall bracket. Can additional brackets
be ordered, and for how much?
(to more easily use the EV2104 at alternate locations)

8. How much do extra (second-user, or replacement) RFIDs cost,
and are they available to order, and in stock?

9. Is just one RFID included?

10. How close does the RFID need to get to "activate" the EV2104?
(a few feet, 6 feet, 6 inches, 1 inch?)

11. Is the EV2104's Internet communication supported by a PC application?
Is that application included?

12. Is the Internet conection WiFi, or Ethernet, or both?

13. If WiFi, is WEP security supported?

14. Do have a "demo" EV2104 plugged in, and Internet Connected,
so that one can use your application to see what it does?

15. Can you post or send the application for me to test with your demo unit,
and send the IP address of your demo unit?

16. Are specs for the Internet communication "commands" and "responses"
available so that I can write my own application to "talk" to the EV2104?

17. Would you like a copy of my application, when I get it working?

18. Are there install instructions, and a user manual included?
If so, can you email those to me to read, please?

19. How much is the shipping, and by what carrier, to So CA?
(UPS ground?)

20. Is there sales tax for orders to CA?

21. Do you have any additional Resale or Quantity discount?

22. Is this an on-going product that will continue to be made,
or a sell-out of a model that will not be widely available.
(possibly being replaced by a newer model)

23. Roughly, how many do you have in stock?

24. When do you expect to get more?

25. How do you "program" the EV2104 to accept the RFIDs?

26. Are each of these units "tested", and how?

27. Are there any known problems, defects, etc. with this model?
(perhaps a sell-out because some intended feature, not usually
needed for home use, did not work as expected?)

28. Is this unit UL listed for both outdoor and indoor use, AND plugin
mounting, both inside and outside?

-------------------
ORDERING:
Assuming positive answers to most of my questions, I am ready
to order one EV2104 to experiment with.
I would also like to include at least one (or two) extra mounting plates,
and several extra RFIDs, assuming those costs are minimal.

I would like to order today so that I can get it before 17 Sep, when
I will take it for "show and tell" to our 1st "Southern CA LEAF-enthusiast "
breakfast meeting on the 18th of this month in Santa Ana.

If I had it now (or tomorrow), I would take it to San Diego with me on
Sunday (12 Sept) to the show there, where a LEAF will be displayed.

Later, when I drive the LEAF (at 11:00 AM on 8 October) in Anaheim,
I will again take it and display it to others who are waiting for a drive.
If I have an adapter to whatever 240v socket type they might be using
for charging, I MIGHT even be able to demonstrate it charging a LEAF.

I have no LEAF yet, but I hope to be able to order soon (Reserved 20 April).
There are those living in this area who have EVs of some sort, and
there are others who should actually get their LEAF in December.

I think I can generate some real interest for your EV2104 if we can
just get some better descriptions on the forum, and "good words" from
somebody who has actually received one and tried it out.

I would like to help make your business successful.

Many potential buyers are waiting for the price (and possibly
a better description of) the three Leviton L2 240v, plug-in EVSEs.

How can I best help you?
Better spec sheets and manuals perhaps?
In a good manual, almost all of my questions would be answered.

Cheers, Gary

--------------- previous response -----------------------
Hi Gary,

I thought I sent the below responses to your questions yesterday, but
apparently you never received it. Here it is again.

Regards,
Dwight
EV-Charge America

___________________________________________________________
Hello,
I am interested in your EV2104 home EVSE, but I have a few questions.

Maybe you can email a Spec Sheet that answers all of them, or just note the
answers and Reply. Please
-- EV-Charge America has a detailed technical "cutsheet" we can supply to
you for your evaluation, if our answers below need to be supplemented.

1. Does the "Plug-and-Play Design" mean that it comes with a standard type
AC plug ready to plug into an existing wall socket (and, if so, what type
plug)?

-- No, you can't plug these units into a standard household outlet. They
are 240 volt, not 120 volt and therefore not at all compatible. It is
strongly advised, from a safety and fire hazard standpoint, not to ever
attempt to use a 240 volt appliance with any type with of 120 volt outlet,
or vice versa.

However, these units are designed to plug into a 240 volt wall outlet,
(similar to a electric clothes dryer or air conditioner). This special type
of 240 volt outlet should be available within approximately 12 inches of
where you would like to install your Charge@Home unit.

Further, "Plug and play" means the unit just starts itself up and starts
working. You don't have to program anything, configure anything, or take any
special technical steps to get it working. If you want to operate the unit
through the internet, it requires our smart internet portal option for
$49.95. Then you can program it to come on at night, or whenever.

The new electric vehicles also have a standard 120 volt connection included
that you can use if you need to charge at a location that does not have 240
volt fast charging service with a J1772 connector.

2. Or, is this L2 EVSE "listed" for hard-wired use only? -- Per above. At
least, for right now, the national electrical code (NEC) rules and
regulations states that it is against the law, and most local fire codes, to
have a detachable cord (an extension cord) for fast charging, 240 volt
service. That is why it is necessary to have a 240 volt outlet to plug the
Charge@Home unit into, or you can wire the unit directly to the service if
you don't think you'll be moving it later.

(Some are really wanting a "portable", plug-in EVSE, like the Leviton L2
models.)

-- Today, portable, detachable units are only allowed and available with
standard, household 120 volt current, slow trickle-charge models. The
Leviton model you cite is a slow-trickle charge unit that will take up to 18
hours to charge your vehicle, regardless of where it is plugged in.

3. Can the user change the "max-current" setting, depending upon the amp
rating of the circuit or breaker breaker (15, 20, 30, 40, 50
amps) that the user will connect it to? (max current would then be 12, 16,
24, 32, or 40 amps)

-- It's recommended that you have a dedicated 40 amp double pole circuit
breaker installed to support your EV charging. Anything short of that would
be a significant sub-optimization of your vehicle's charging potential.

4. Is the EV2104 outdoor-use "listed"?

-- Yes

5. Does the "outdoor" use of the EV2104 require hard-wiring?

-- You can hard wire it if you like, per above.

6. If desired, can one disable the need for the RF-ID, so that the EVSE is
"always" available? (for example, if I install in my private garage, using
the RF-ID each time I charge, is an inconvenience.)

-- For safety purposes, it is recommended that an activation method be used
to turn on the high voltage power only when it is needed. We do have other
means of turning on the juice that does not require an RFID tag or smart
card as an option.

7. Is this EVSE for 32A maximum output (when used on a 40A circuit), or 40A
max output when used on a 50A circuit?

-- The former.

8. To be better prepared to use it, What is in the Wall Mounting Kit?

-- The wall mounting kit is a steel bracket that mounts to the wall with 4
standard screws. A 240 volt electrical box and 240 volt outlet should be
positioned at the height and location where you want to use your charger, on
any sturdy wall or flat surface. The Charge@Home unit then snaps into place
on the wall bracket and you plug it in.

The Charge@Home comes with 20 ft. of cable permanently attached to it, with
the J1772 connector permanently attached to its end.

Thanks for your kind help.
There are many of us on the www.MyNissanLeaf.com forum who are following
your work, and think this looks like a good offering.

-- If we can be of any further assistance, please don't hesitate to ask.

Cheers

Thanks, Gary
-----------------------

 

[garygid]

Darn, I forgot to ask them what their warranty is for their EV2104.

 

[Ready2plugin]

I emailed them about their warranties yesterday, and they got back within 2 minutes:

"Our warranties are double the industry standard. Ours are 2 years on parts and labor. Thanks for your interest. EVCA."

Then I asked about if you need to ship the unit for repair or do they service at the house:

"We have a service company that will come out and replace any defective unit on the spot. Our commercial product warranty commitment is to replace any problem part within 24 hours. For the residential units we hope to do even better than that. They haven't set the exact policy yet. EVCA"

So far I like that they respond within just a few minutes to my emails, and even though they do not have a finalize policy on the residential unit, it looks good so far!

 

[garygid]

I just got an enthusiastic call from Dwight, the Sales Manager, and
I have offered to help them increase sales.

I will try to get a EV2104 User Manual and Install Instructions on-line,
and add a FAQ document of anything not covered in those two documents.

I hope to order one unit today, and brig it with me for "show and tell"
at the "SoCal Gathering" on 12 Sept. at HTB.

I am expecting a call from the CEO/Technical/Inventer guy to answer
most of my remaining questions and expedite the order.

More info later.

 

[1051]

So is the unit around $700 including the smart internet option?

 

[hodad66]

thanks for all the work Gary..........

 

[garygid]

I am working on clarifying the "implied included" internet connection vs. an extra $50 for it.

 

[prberg]

Thanks for getting more info for us. I had sent them an email last week with a bunch of questions and I haven't heard back yet. I assume they are overwhelmed with emails? Or maybe their customer service department needs to step up a little bit. I'm glad to hear they have a decent warranty on the unit. I was wondering about the internet connectivity too. Does it work on wifi or do I need to run an ethernet cable to it?

Anyone have any idea on how likely they will be around in 5 years to service the EVSE's if they have a problem. That is one advantage that Leviton has, is that you know they will be there for warranty service or updates (will these units ever need software updates?).

I do want to find out more about this unit.. it does look promising!

-Peter

 

[garygid]

I just talked to Dwight (the Sales Manager) and he says that he will find out
the answers to all my questions over the weekend. At least he realizes that
he should know the answers, rather than just passing inquiries off to the
technical person(s).

I expect to receive their technical "cutsheet" (whatever that is) on the EV2104
in the email tomorrow (Saturday).

My outstanding Questions are many, including:
1. Is the Internet Interface included in the $649?
2. What is the cost of shipping?
3. What are the warranty details?
4. Can the EV2104 be installed on a 20-amp circuit and set for 16-amps out?

Apparently they are establishing some sort of "network" to cover their territory,
and I will find out more about that early next week. Presumably that would
help them offer a unit-replacement in-home warranty. We shall see.

Assuming positive answers to my questions on Monday, I will order one
and bring it to the 18 Sept. Santa Ana "Gathering".

Have a good weekend.

 

[garygid]

I have been asked about doing a "Group Buy" to get a better price,
save on shipping, get some option (if any) included, or some such.

Yes, the EV-chargeAmerica EV2104 definately sounds interesting.
If my Questions are answered well, I intend to order one on Monday.
I will probably get an extra mounting plate and extra RFIDs if
they are not too expensive.

Securely supporting two (or more) "outdoor" users is one of the
possibly-great features of this design. For an in-garage use,
the RFID would usually not be used.

However, I could try to do a first "group buy" on Monday ...
but only if we can get some real benefit.

1. Having them come here and then them re-shipping to you ... tends
to eat up any cost benefit. Drop ship directly to you might be best.

2. I believe that they will not only add shipping, but CA tax as well.
However, I am not positive.

3. If the Internet Connection is really a $49.95 extra-cost option,
I might be able to get that included ... or some such "real" benefit.

If you want IN on this first order, post a definite commitment here.
You would Pick-up at my house, for cash, in Laguna Hills.

I will get the Internet "Option" included in the $649 or I will
most likely NOT do the group buy.

I might possibly still get one (with the option) for myself.
The $649 is their "sale" price, and I was unable to find out
how long that price will last. They said that they have "any" in stock.

So, it is likely to be $649 + about $30 shipping UPS, plus $50 or so in CA tax.
So, it could be $730 to $750, but it still beats AV's $721 + tax + shipping,
and it appears to me a much more "featured" unit.

You will want a proper receipt for EVSE tax-credit purposes.

To me, their EV2104 sounds "capable" as it is, but we might even be able
to work "with" this smaller company to improve the product. I will atempt
to find out.

Possible Future Improvements that I will discuss with them:
1. Make it work on various breakers, like 15, 20, 30 amp instead of just 40-amp.
(an outstading question is ... will it already do that?
2. Make it considerably smaller and lighter.
(should be possible)
3. Make one unit that will work on 120 volts OR 240 volts.
(should be technically possible, I believe)

 

[prberg]

Gary,

I am interested in the EVSE group buy, but I would want to see the answers to my (and your) questions first. Also would depend on what discount they might give to us. Any idea how long they have been in business? I think it's great that they might be willing to listen to feedback and make the product better.

I agree that a smaller profile would be nice. 16"x16" is a little big (I don't have alot of wall space to work with). I am very curious what kind of info is given on the display screen (does it have a screen, or some lights?). Also more info on the internet connectivity.

Let us know what you find out.

-Peter

 

[smkettner]

I would be good with a zero frills 16a model for less money.
I have an idea most issues are controlled by the leaf anyway.