2013 LEAF Specs, Pricing, Options Released In Japan

[evnow]

I'm lobbying for a better battery.

Not sure Nissan needs to be lobbied on this. The battery technology improves at its own pace - hopefully faster in future given Billions in investments.

 

[evnow]

The challenge of bringing a mass produced BEV to market in the quantity and quality that Nissan has done in the last 2 years is very very hard work. And as with any very hard effort, all will not go perfectly, but through continuous learning and improvement, the advancement of the art will continue. I think that in the coming year, that as the global leader in BEV vehicles, Nissan will advance the art and science of the BEV in a significant way, and will set a new standard for BEV customer satisfaction as well.

The big question is - are PR & marketing folks at Nissan undoing all the hardwork of engineers ?

I've still not seen a response on the battery degradation issue. Until they do that I don't see how people here on this forum will take Nissan seriously.

Have you talked to them candidly about this issue - and what is their response ?

 

[Stoaty]

On a more serious note - I think we all would be more forgiving of Nissan - but frankly it's been 98% silence from Nissan.

No real information on what kind of capacity loss to expect except for a very general expectation which leads all customers to assume that they will meet or beat those expectations (we're all optimists!).
No real information on how Nissan plans to address capacity loss despite this drum being beaten for 6 months now (and the first signs of this started showing up 5-6 months before that.
No real effort to assist with buy-backs whose range has degraded 5 years worth in less than 2 years except for a very few and vocal customers.
No real effort to communicate on the forum aside from a couple random posts from Jeff K (aka Hawk0630) despite his assurances otherwise.
No real news or apparent movement from the advisory panel since it's announcement 3 months ago.

It will certainly take quite a turn around on Nissan's part to change the mind of many of the early adopters who have been burned and feel like they've been left hanging with little to no recourse.

I think this sums up the situation very nicely. Sure, Nissan may change, but there hasn't been any evidence of it so far. The time for talk, vague hints and promises of something good coming "in the near future" is long past. Until Nissan takes action, it's all vaporware.

 

[Reddy]

I'll probably mangle the quoting here, but I don't envision this being ONLY for 2011/12 Leafs, but rather for the future models as well. I hope the engineers were thinking of the future.

I still think engineers can make the internal components smaller, add more to the pouch, and produce a identically-sized module that has more capacity.

Can, yes, but would it be practical? Why would they design a special identically-sized module just to satisfy a few thousand upgrade requests? It would be a dead-end technology with a high front-end cost.

Sure there may be some additional BMS tweaks, but why can't this be available for the 2011 Leaf in '14 or '15?

Have you ever written software programs like this? What you are talking about is a specialized version of the code that supports new interfaces to the new battery together with old interfaces to the rest of the car. Not only would there be a high development cost (to be spread over relatively few customers), but it would provide an additional environment that must be supported; one more code source or variant to apply fixes to, and one more physical configuration to be tested thoroughly before any fix could be released.

Ray

Nope, my last software program was probably 10 lines in BASIC and had a GOTO statement. :lol: Again, a retrofit and for future models.

Pure supposition here, but remember back when Nissan announced the Leaf. It surprised everyone, right out of left field, an affordable, practical, usable, "real car" EV that was really delivered, not just more vaporware. Thousands jumped on it, bought instead of leased (to the surprise of Nissan), etc. Nissan's CEO even said something about the engineers will always tell you it's not ready and to wait until the next iteration. However, Nissan went ahead. So, then what was/is the next iteration that the engineers knew about back in 2009/2010??? Notice that once again Nissan is completely SILENT on the US specs. I wonder if there isn't some major improvement that is being kept secret. Certainly the 6.6 KW charger is rumored and probably true. With such a charger, you could L2 charge a 50 KWH battery in about 8 hours. Will we see such a battery in 2013? Maybe not, but how about 30 or 40? Nissan can't afford to let Tesla have all the range customers. Many people on this forum are jumping to other EVs and range is a primary consideration. The next few months and years should be pretty interesting. I'm almost wishing that I had leased instead of bought. Fortunately, I don't need the range, but have found it useful for a few trips.

Reddy

 

[TonyWilliams]

Notice that once again Nissan is completely SILENT on the US specs. I wonder if there isn't some major improvement that is being kept secret.

You can wonder all you want, but Nissan is not "completely silent". Many of the upgrades to the USA spec LEAF were known over a year ago.

Which is why there won't be a "surprise". It takes a LONG time for a mega-corporation to get things done. Even if it were ordered today to have TMS in the LEAF, it will be two years minimum before you would see it. It's just reality. I doubt we'll see TMS even in a 2015 LEAF with new battery design, because so far, they don't think it's needed (except for you loud complainers in hot areas... too few to worry about for them).

The only major differences from the Japan market LEAF for 2013 will be the 6.6kW charger. I don't recall if Japan will have leather, or power seats, but those should be options for 2013 in the USA (announced Dec 2011). Plus a new color.

Even the charger under the hood was known then.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Green Car Reports posted a rumor back in Sept that the 2013 American LEAF would have "better" batteries. now better in what way? was not specified. they guessed it would be cheaper (which is whole reason to build the car and major components like battery in US instead of Japan)

now we have heard nothing. Nissan is doing big big push to get rid of 2012's obviously because as soon as 2013's are announced, the sales will presumably stop. so much be something worth the wait. or could be just a big price drop due to savings of onshore assembly

 

[davewill]

Green Car Reports posted a rumor back in Sept that the 2013 American LEAF would have "better" batteries. now better in what way? was not specified. they guessed it would be cheaper (which is whole reason to build the car and major components like battery in US instead of Japan)

now we have heard nothing. Nissan is doing big big push to get rid of 2012's obviously because as soon as 2013's are announced, the sales will presumably stop. so much be something worth the wait. or could be just a big price drop due to savings of onshore assembly

I think we saw EXACTLY what they meant by "better" in photos posted on the forum. It looks like they dropped weight and made the modules cheaper. A big win from Nissan's point of view.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

At the risk of sounding like the hopeless optimist that I am (is that an oxymoron?) I will just say "we shall see soon enough"

 

[GetOffYourGas]

At the risk of sounding like the hopeless optimist that I am (is that an oxymoron?) I will just say "we shall see soon enough"

Too late

As much as I want to see a significantly improved battery with the purported 25% increased range, all at a lower price, I don't think it will happen this year. Let me instead say "I'll believe it when I see it".

 

[LEAFfan]

At the risk of sounding like the hopeless optimist that I am (is that an oxymoron?) I will just say "we shall see soon enough"

Too late

As much as I want to see a significantly improved battery with the purported 25% increased range, all at a lower price, I don't think it will happen this year. Let me instead say "I'll believe it when I see it".

It was never 26%. With the weight reduction and efficiency improvements, more likely 15%.

 

[Douglas57]

What time frame does everyone think the 2013 will be announced and made public to check out with all the specs and everything?

 

[mikeEmike]

What time frame does everyone think the 2013 will be announced and made public to check out with all the specs and everything?

I heard that the US specs for the 2013 will be announced at the Detroit Auto Show, mid-January.

 

[cwerdna]

What time frame does everyone think the 2013 will be announced and made public to check out with all the specs and everything?

I heard that the US specs for the 2013 will be announced at the Detroit Auto Show, mid-January.

Yep, dates of the show at http://www.naias.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I'd imagine we'll hear a FLURRY of activity, news, press releases, etc. from all major automakers.

 

[GREENEV]

Does anyone know when the construction of the US Nissan LEAF plant(s) were finished?

It'll be interesting to see the quality control of the 2013 US built LEAF vs the 2010/2011/2012 Japanese built LEAF.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Does anyone know when the construction of the US Nissan LEAF plant(s) were finished?

It'll be interesting to see the quality control of the 2013 US built LEAF vs the 2010/2011/2012 Japanese built LEAF.

few months ago. now there was already an existing Nissan plant there for years. so this was an "add on" so its not all that new

the other comment on perceived quality differences from American built Japanese cars verses Japan built has pretty much faded over the years.

 

[TomT]

Though I expect it to perhaps drop a bit for a while while the new plant comes up to speed. That is almost always the case when production is shifted, particularly with a new model or significant model changes...

the other comment on perceived quality differences from American built Japanese cars verses Japan built has pretty much faded over the years.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Though I expect it to perhaps drop a bit for a while while the new plant comes up to speed. That is almost always the case when production is shifted, particularly with a new model or significant model changes...

the other comment on perceived quality differences from American built Japanese cars verses Japan built has pretty much faded over the years.

having model changes and a new plant is a double challenge but modern manufacturing processes are pretty complex and precise. intel perfected the "copy exactly" method of manufacturing in their fabs to every detail even to the point of painting every fab the exact same colors and having every floor plan right down to the bathrooms and break rooms laid out identically.

this was an effort to eliminate as many variables as possible since very small changes can affect output in a situation where dust particles 1/100th the size of a human hair can have measurable impact on the quality of the final product.

the other thing is that robotics have taken over the more complex parts of the assembly process. key component assembly is rarely done by humans anymore. they simply bolt in modules

 

[GetOffYourGas]

At the risk of sounding like the hopeless optimist that I am (is that an oxymoron?) I will just say "we shall see soon enough"

Too late

As much as I want to see a significantly improved battery with the purported 25% increased range, all at a lower price, I don't think it will happen this year. Let me instead say "I'll believe it when I see it".

It was never 26%. With the weight reduction and efficiency improvements, more likely 15%.

Not entirely true. There were rumors floating around a few months ago of a 25% improvement. Those have been put pretty well to rest by now. But I said that I want to see that improvement, not that anyone believes it will happen.