2013 LEAF Specs, Pricing, Options Released In Japan

[DaveinOlyWA]

Don't believe the fast charge issue if u don't get beyond 6 temp bars. I have done over one hundred times

 

[fotajoye]

The 10kW charger on the Tesla and Rav4 is not large or heavy.

If that's the case then I'm wrong; there would be little weight or space savings. But, I wonder what the dimensions and poundage of the Tesla charger really is, especially if you have the 20 kw option which has two 10 kw chargers installed.

In the 2013 Leaf model Nissan has moved the charger up front under the hood, so maybe they have downsized that unit somewhat.

 

[planet4ever]

In the 2013 Leaf model Nissan has moved the charger up front under the hood, so maybe they have downsized that unit somewhat.

If nothing else, they must have gotten rid of a few pounds of tubing and coolant! Surely it must be more efficient, from a plumbing viewpoint, to have the four components that use liquid cooling all stacked together.

Ray

 

[OrientExpress]

Yeah, the cooling system is much simplified and cost reduced.

 

[RegGuheert]

#5. I told my friend about how they were eliminating the beautiful LEDs on the upcoming S model headlights & engineer said they were eliminating the LEDs on the back too (you guys probably knew that, but it was new to me)

I hadn't heard that, either. I think I'd rather give up the LED headlights than the LED taillights since the LEDs only cover the low beams anyway.

 

[fotajoye]

#5. I told my friend about how they were eliminating the beautiful LEDs on the upcoming S model headlights & engineer said they were eliminating the LEDs on the back too (you guys probably knew that, but it was new to me)

I hadn't heard that, either. I think I'd rather give up the LED headlights than the LED taillights since the LEDs only cover the low beams anyway.

There is expected to be a low-cost, low-trim model that will not include the LEDs.

 

[mwalsh]

I have built up a good relationship the Nissan global EV team and advise them on many aspects of the EV business as seen from an unbiased customer POV.

The now patently obvious coziness of the relationship you have with Nissan does nothing but reinforce the long-held belief of some, myself included, that your opinions have always been far from unbiased. I personally will read all your future posts from that starting point of view.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I have built up a good relationship the Nissan global EV team and advise them on many aspects of the EV business as seen from an unbiased customer POV.

The now patently obvious coziness of the relationship you have with Nissan does nothing but reinforce the long-held belief of some, myself included, that your opinions have always been far from unbiased. I personally will read all your future posts from that starting point of view.

If we believe his current statement, then based on his previous statements, he is advising double digit battery degradation as normal, and we don't need bigger batteries or TMS... just charge your car more.

 

[DaveEV]

just charge your car more.

That might be OK with a decent QC infrastructure. How about starting with QC stations at Nissan dealers? They are very often very conveniently located for suburban trips. I know that most of the Nissan dealers around San Diego and beyond are fairly well placed. Heck, one is so good someone else installed a QC across the street from a Nissan dealer!

 

[OrientExpress]

The now patently obvious coziness of the relationship you have with Nissan does nothing but reinforce the long-held belief of some, myself included, that your opinions have always been far from unbiased. I personally will read all your future posts from that starting point of view.

I have gotten to know many of the people that are responsible for Nissan's efforts in the BEV space, and many many of them I consider as my friends. I have seen the work and the hurdles that they have crossed in bringing the LEAF to market and have a great respect for their work in the successes that they have had. I have met the Nissan Team in the Executive Board Room, in the Labs, and on the Assembly lines, and if anything my writings are tempered by what I have seen and interacting with the people responsible for those efforts.

The challenge of bringing a mass produced BEV to market in the quantity and quality that Nissan has done in the last 2 years is very very hard work. And as with any very hard effort, all will not go perfectly, but through continuous learning and improvement, the advancement of the art will continue. I think that in the coming year, that as the global leader in BEV vehicles, Nissan will advance the art and science of the BEV in a significant way, and will set a new standard for BEV customer satisfaction as well.

There are many of you that post on this forum that are tough and unforgiving critics of Nissan and their efforts. That is fine, as today's criticisms drive tomorrows solutions.

 

[mwalsh]

There are many of you that post on this forum that are tough and unforgiving critics of Nissan and their efforts. That is fine, as today's criticisms drive tomorrows solutions.

Nissan has earned much of the criticism voiced here. For inaction, obfuscation, and a general lack of engagement that completely astounds and confounds me. I too have fairly significant relationships with people at the senior corporate level, and they are good folks to a man (or woman). The difference between you and I...an unwillingness to even acknowledge Nissan's missteps, much less call Nissan out on them.

 

[fotajoye]

There are many of you that post on this forum that are tough and unforgiving critics of Nissan and their efforts. That is fine, as today's criticisms drive tomorrows solutions.

Please know, I for one make comments that attempt to suggest positive advancement of the car. I see far too much name calling and personal attacks on the various internet forums and I don't suffer this foolishness well. My daddy told me " Conversations about things and actions are always less emotional than conversations about relationships and personalities, speak to me about things."

 

[DaveEV]

The difference between you and I...an unwillingness to even acknowledge Nissan's missteps, much less call Nissan out on them.

Since we're calling people out here - it's you and me - Grammar police alert!

Disclaimer: Just trying to be funny - no guarantees that I have been effective, but please feel free to call me out on it.

On a more serious note - I think we all would be more forgiving of Nissan - but frankly it's been 98% silence from Nissan.

No real information on what kind of capacity loss to expect except for a very general expectation which leads all customers to assume that they will meet or beat those expectations (we're all optimists!).
No real information on how Nissan plans to address capacity loss despite this drum being beaten for 6 months now (and the first signs of this started showing up 5-6 months before that.
No real effort to assist with buy-backs whose range has degraded 5 years worth in less than 2 years except for a very few and vocal customers.
No real effort to communicate on the forum aside from a couple random posts from Jeff K (aka Hawk0630) despite his assurances otherwise.
No real news or apparent movement from the advisory panel since it's announcement 3 months ago.

Sure - OrientExpress has had the privilege of getting "insider" secrets from Nissan and apparently has no capacity loss or any other issues with his LEAF - but obviously many others have.

It will certainly take quite a turn around on Nissan's part to change the mind of many of the early adopters who have been burned and feel like they've been left hanging with little to no recourse.

Then again - feelings can be fickle - there are some rumblings that Nissan has something hiding up it's sleeve that will come with the 2013 LEAF announcement for the USA - but that's about it and I'm sure that many have felt that Nissan was going to step up now soon for quite some time but left disappointed.

 

[fotajoye]

I'm sure that many have felt that Nissan was going to step up now soon for quite some time but left disappointed.

Open note to Nissan:

It's no secret; I'm lobbying for a better battery.

The main problems you have with the Leaf will evaporate with two communiques:
1.) The announcement of an upgraded battery with a higher density and charge life; and,
2.) the announcement that this battery can be retrofitted into the older cars.

I believe this forum wants you to succeed and all are friends of the EV movement. And, we want you to make lots of money...it's the American thing to do! I cheer when you improved the drive train and lighten the new car, and I am pleased that you have taken some of our suggestions and that you will display the battery charge capacity properly.

I can't speak for everyone but, I believe the shouts of joy from the forum members would deafen the other manufacturer's dealerships and scare 'em to death, if you made these two announcements. Included them in all your PR because you would allay the fears many Americans have for not buying The Nissan Leaf.

 

[cwerdna]

Please know, I for one make comments that attempt to suggest positive advancement of the car. I see far too much name calling and personal attacks on the various internet forums and I don't suffer this foolishness well. My daddy told me " Conversations about things and actions are always less emotional than conversations about relationships and personalities, speak to me about things."

FYI, if you hadn't been following the now 500 page long battery capacity loss thread, I believe some of the hostility and skepticism towards OE is because of his repeated denials/unwillingness to see that there is a hot climate battery degradation problem.

Tony linked to his posts at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=221444#p221444" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Then on Sep 13th (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=227339#p227339" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false, I noticed that OE decided to delete most of his posts. But, if you look at the posts that followed his and quoted him, you can get the gist of what his stance was.

drees' post basically sums up Nissan's behavior/response. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has a lot more gory details.

 

[planet4ever]

The main problems you have with the Leaf will evaporate with two communiques:
1.) The announcement of an upgraded battery with a higher density and charge life; and,
2.) the announcement that this battery can be retrofitted into the older cars.

I hope you aren't holding your breath. My guess is 24 months for the first one, and ... umm ... forever for the second. My expectation is that upgrades like that simply aren't practical. If you can't live with your present battery, get rid of the car and get one with a better battery when it becomes available.

Ray

 

[Reddy]

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I remember replacing a lead acid battery in my old car "years" ago. When I went to buy the same CCA, the size/volume was nearly half, with more CCA. The battery was so small that I had trouble getting it installed. This was probably only 7 or 8 years after the previous battery. Now, we can't extrapolate from lead acid in the 80's to LION today, but I still think engineers can make the internal components smaller, add more to the pouch, and produce a identically-sized module that has more capacity. Sure there may be some additional BMS tweaks, but why can't this be available for the 2011 Leaf in '14 or '15?

 

[TonyWilliams]

There are many of you that post on this forum that are tough and unforgiving critics of Nissan and their efforts. That is fine, as today's criticisms drive tomorrows solutions.

I don't know if you started taking Prozac, but your entire demeanor has changed on here for the positive. Hopefully, you won't slide back to the "before time".

Hopefully, you can agree to disagree about issues in the future without drama and ad hominems.

 

[TEG]

Maybe I'm an optimist, but I remember replacing a lead acid battery in my old car "years" ago. When I went to buy the same CCA, the size/volume was nearly half, with more CCA. The battery was so small that I had trouble getting it installed. This was probably only 7 or 8 years after the previous battery. Now, we can't extrapolate from lead acid in the 80's to LION today, but I still think engineers can make the internal components smaller, add more to the pouch, and produce a identically-sized module that has more capacity. Sure there may be some additional BMS tweaks, but why can't this be available for the 2011 Leaf in '14 or '15?

CCA ("Cold Cranking Amps") isn't (AFAIK) a measure of battery capacity, but rather a measure of max power output. So, yeah, they could design a smaller battery with higher power output, but I don't think Lead/Acid has seen a 2x increase in energy storage density in recent years.

With Li-Ion it seems we are getting year to year incremental improvements in energy density. The big "game changer" breakthrough we keep hoping for seems to be taking a while to get here (in spite of the press releases we see sometimes touting amazing breakthroughs in the research labs.)

 

[planet4ever]

I still think engineers can make the internal components smaller, add more to the pouch, and produce a identically-sized module that has more capacity.

Can, yes, but would it be practical? Why would they design a special identically-sized module just to satisfy a few thousand upgrade requests? It would be a dead-end technology with a high front-end cost.

Sure there may be some additional BMS tweaks, but why can't this be available for the 2011 Leaf in '14 or '15?

Have you ever written software programs like this? What you are talking about is a specialized version of the code that supports new interfaces to the new battery together with old interfaces to the rest of the car. Not only would there be a high development cost (to be spread over relatively few customers), but it would provide an additional environment that must be supported; one more code source or variant to apply fixes to, and one more physical configuration to be tested thoroughly before any fix could be released.

Ray